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Post by mrfatso on Jul 6, 2014 6:48:57 GMT
Apparently the temperature of the human body does indeed drop when asleep, but the body is still capable of thermoregulation so this is unlikely to be a problem. In theory it *could* cause problems for some people, but the number would be so small as to be untestable. www.sleepdex.org/thermoregulation.htm (This discusses things is a fair amount of detail, and is supported by a lot of other sources in so far that human body temperature does indeed drop during sleep) From experience I know that in a normally funtioning human body, if the ambient temperature gets low enough, you'll wake up from shivering before hypothermia gets a chance to set in. Even with a somwhat impaired human body (i.e. being drunk) you'll wake up from the sheer motion of your body if you're shivering hard enough. I think you are correct in a normal Adult Body, however someone that has impaired function of their Thermoregulation system could I think potentially be at risk, the elderly, too young or chronically sick. www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hypothermia/Pages/Introduction.aspxSomeone's room temperature could possibly be reduced to a level that induced Hyperthermia, and their body would not be able to cope. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 6, 2014 8:26:31 GMT
I think this is going to be one of the Uncountable myths. Chance of motor or mechanical failure, you would have to have a fan that was so old and knackered it would fail basic safety checks?... Chance of the human under test passing on, you would have to have someone so ill they were on a rigid monitoring system of life support anyway. Therefore, as Korea doesnt have as many safety checks as we do, its probably a good idea NOT to run a fan you cant monitor as its so old and rickety its liable to blow up. And as none of their lower paid citizens have even the basics in what we think as health care..... In my estimation, because of the stringent safety checks we put on electrical equipment, for obvious reasons, this now becomes untestable, and as no one "That ill" would turn up to be tested without seeing an emergency doctor first?... Cultural differences prevent us getting any where near testing this myth. And if Korea or anyone in that area, korea India Pakistan any asian country finds what I have said insulting, take a look in the mirror before you reply.... is your country really that safe?... do you even have say an MOT vehicle safety check?... This is safe is it?...  |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 6, 2014 11:40:32 GMT
I did some checking on this via several places - not just Wilkipedia.
There is zero evidence for this being real, but it remains a common myth in Korea where there are warning signs on fans and, interestingly, air-conditioning units. It appears that the myth started in the 1970's, and *might* have been started in an effort to stop people from using fans all night and placing a strain on the limited power grid in place at that time.
However the investigation did turn up a couple of 'explanations';
Hypothermia; Busted as far as experts are concerned, who noted that you'd have to lose some ten degrees of core body temperature before you died.
Dehydration; Usually added to hypothermia rather than being listed as a separate cause.
Suffocation; It is claimed that the fans result in raised CO2 levels or a decrease in O2 levels, although I've not seen any realistic explanation as to how this is meant to occur. Another variation is that the fan creates a 'vacuum' around the victims face - again there is no explanation as to how this is meant to occur. (We could add smoldering wiring or dust in the fan and gas build up to this, although these are not listed as 'official' explanations anywhere but on TC)
All of these seem to be testable in controlled conditions comparatively easily - the hardest part would be finding or making a room in which conditions (heat and humidity) are consistent with Korea. But everything else they might need is fairly simple to get hold of, or MB will already have.
Funny to think that this is an old urban myth, and one which has been dismissed every time it came up on Discovery Boards, but which on closer inspection might actually make for some interesting testing. There are certainly enough theories to allow a fair amount of fairly simple testing and the nature of most of the tests would allow them to carry out two or three tests in a day since you are leaving the fan running for some eight hours at a time. (One test while they are at work, and a second left running over night)
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Post by the light works on Jul 6, 2014 14:07:35 GMT
Apparently the temperature of the human body does indeed drop when asleep, but the body is still capable of thermoregulation so this is unlikely to be a problem. In theory it *could* cause problems for some people, but the number would be so small as to be untestable. www.sleepdex.org/thermoregulation.htm (This discusses things is a fair amount of detail, and is supported by a lot of other sources in so far that human body temperature does indeed drop during sleep) From experience I know that in a normally funtioning human body, if the ambient temperature gets low enough, you'll wake up from shivering before hypothermia gets a chance to set in. Even with a somwhat impaired human body (i.e. being drunk) you'll wake up from the sheer motion of your body if you're shivering hard enough. still, looking for possibilities rather than probabilities - its another shred of a chance. |
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jul 18, 2014 14:36:14 GMT
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 18, 2014 20:05:42 GMT
I guess that means our job here is no longer to debate whether or not it's possible, but viable ways of testing it. |
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2014 0:11:27 GMT
I guess that means our job here is no longer to debate whether or not it's possible, but viable ways of testing it. indeed. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 19, 2014 7:18:27 GMT
So setting up a fan to run indefinitely with air quality sensors.
How long is too long.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 19, 2014 10:10:26 GMT
To make this any kind of accurate, we need to find out what the typical Korean house looks like and know something about temps and humidity as well. If those bases aren't covered, they'll be scrutinized heavily afterwards, especially by Korean fans (the human kind of fans).
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 19, 2014 11:07:46 GMT
I'm more interested in knowing what kind of beds and heating systems they use in Korea - gas boilers can produce CO. Sleeping closer to the floor could mean resting in higher concentrations of heavier than air gasses that could be lethal.
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2014 11:11:53 GMT
To make this any kind of accurate, we need to find out what the typical Korean house looks like and know something about temps and humidity as well. If those bases aren't covered, they'll be scrutinized heavily afterwards, especially by Korean fans (the human kind of fans). start with typical Korean conditions, and work from there. |
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 21, 2014 3:22:55 GMT
I seem to recall someone saying on the old board that some Korean households use something akin to a charcoal brazier under the floorboards for heat. That would definitely be a source of CO.
You know what kind of Buster I'd like to see to test this? Build a head and connect a bag full of O2 sensors to a model of the mouth/nose/larynx. Put it in an iron lung type pump, and then make it "breathe". If they could get the right timing on it, they could have a visually interesting test rig. They could even insert CO2 on the exhale cycle to simulate oxygen conversion.
Probably too elaborate, but it would look cool.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 22, 2014 9:12:08 GMT
I seem to recall someone saying on the old board that some Korean households use something akin to a charcoal brazier under the floorboards for heat. That would definitely be a source of CO. You know what kind of Buster I'd like to see to test this? Build a head and connect a bag full of O2 sensors to a model of the mouth/nose/larynx. Put it in an iron lung type pump, and then make it "breathe". If they could get the right timing on it, they could have a visually interesting test rig. They could even insert CO2 on the exhale cycle to simulate oxygen conversion. Probably too elaborate, but it would look cool. I don't know if they'd have the time to build something like that, but it's definitely one of the better rig ideas any of us have come up with in a while  |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 22, 2014 10:41:37 GMT
That is a little too complex methinks, but they could do a slightly simpler version using an old CPR dummy.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 23, 2014 6:57:50 GMT
I still have the problem with run time.
Old electrics smell funny....
I therefore wonder how old it has to be before the Ozone dead fish smell starts to exude from the fan and start tales of that smell being deadly....
Many Korean fans are pretty much at the end of useful life.
My train of thought is that the fans in question would most likely be OLD fans that have run for many years?....
So MB's either find fans originally build for Thomas Edison, or the fans need to run to near end of life.
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Post by the light works on Jul 23, 2014 14:22:50 GMT
I still have the problem with run time. Old electrics smell funny.... I therefore wonder how old it has to be before the Ozone dead fish smell starts to exude from the fan and start tales of that smell being deadly.... Many Korean fans are pretty much at the end of useful life. My train of thought is that the fans in question would most likely be OLD fans that have run for many years?.... So MB's either find fans originally build for Thomas Edison, or the fans need to run to near end of life. that is still my leading thought as well. - though they could probably make worn out motors in the shop, instead of spending time letting nature take its course. |
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