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Post by the light works on Aug 6, 2014 15:41:50 GMT
but around here, mobility aids can go much faster than a granny with a cane. All you need to have is the law and the necessary scooters will enter the market fully automatically. ≤6kph: no tax, no driver's license, no insurance, no license plate (so no license fees) >6 kph: Tax, mandatory driver's license, license plates, insurance. That simple! No matter what, you are always allowed to drive a slow scooter to remain mobile. If you have the money, you can have a fast scooter but with insurance (mandatory) and everything else a motorizes vehicle needs. "you are responsible for any damage you do" is simpler.
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 6, 2014 19:05:39 GMT
but around here, mobility aids can go much faster than a granny with a cane. All you need to have is the law and the necessary scooters will enter the market fully automatically. ≤6kph: no tax, no driver's license, no insurance, no license plate (so no license fees) >6 kph: Tax, mandatory driver's license, license plates, insurance. That simple! No matter what, you are always allowed to drive a slow scooter to remain mobile. If you have the money, you can have a fast scooter but with insurance (mandatory) and everything else a motorizes vehicle needs. Sounds fair, but can we still at least agree that there should be a basic traffic rule comprehension test for anyone using one of these things in public, regardless of what speeds the vehicles can reach? At least for the elderly and people with disabilities where mental capacity can be brought into question. A ≤6kph vehicle may not be able to do much damage on its own, but it can still be a nuisance and/or risk if the driver is careless. Perfectly mentally healthy people, like those who have lost the use of their legs in an accident or through disease but are otherwise fine mentally could be exempt. Especially if they had a driver's license and no known traffic violations before they lost the use of their legs. There's no point in making more bureaucracy out of it than needed.
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 6, 2014 21:57:09 GMT
Keep in mind that not everyone who needs a scooter is going to live near a city or even a bus stop. Some are going to live some distance away, others may live in hilly areas or be obese. In the latter two cases the lower powered scooters simply might not be up to the task of dealing with the weight of the user or the steep roads the scooters would have to deal with.
In more remote areas it might even be dangerous to drive the lower speed versions, as there is not option but to drive on the road for at least part of the journey.
So there can be valid practical reasons why someone needs the 'faster' version, and limiting such versions too much using finance would be very unfair to say the least.
Besides, in the UK the type 3 carriage has to be maintained to minimum standards (good brakes, working lights etc) which requires a service that costs the owner money. So there is already a degree of practical limitation placed on which version you can afford.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 7, 2014 8:30:50 GMT
Sod that, make it Mandatory, if its road going, you get insurance number plates and register for Tax (even though they are tax exempt at this time) That way, it will be proven you need some form of basic driving licence, need a medical to prove you have eyesight abilities and are physically able to operate the controls....
Even Stephen Hawkins (Prof) is able to control his own chair, but hey, he doesnt choose to go play bumper tag with Traffic does he?.. proof he is a very smart guy.....
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 7, 2014 8:51:59 GMT
Please remember here I am trying to legislate against dangerous driving in a mobility scooter, and to all of those who own one and have genuine disability needs, who drive one safely, to the letter of the law, without incident, with consideration for all other road users, just like all other road users are supposed to do, long may you continue......
If they cant afford insurance, Well just give them a free car then...?... I disagree Cyber, there must be a point when your disability requires you to be dependant on others. If that means you gotta move, then you gotta move. Two sides of the same coin... Society either has to make way for these ijurts on the roads, or has to make space for them to live closer to those that can help.
Road users are licensed for a reason...safety... just giving out a free pass to Disability is against the laws of sensible, especially if they are not safe drivers. Is not having the ability to pass a normal driving test a disability?... Why yes it is, that way they can get a mobility scooter, and drive down the road just like they always wanted....
ANYONE can buy a mobility scooter. There is no test to show you need one.
Disability is disabled, not differently abled, DISS abled. As in you CANT do certain things. How about Driving is one of the things they cant do?...
Unless, of course, they CAN do that, can prove they can, they stick to normal traffic rules, and are not a hindrance travelling along at 6mph along the paintwork in the centre of the road.... And have Licence, Insurance, pay road tax like any other road user.....
And those people who need transport needs get extra money through in Disability Benefits for that reason. To pay Transport needs.
One final thing to work out..... Just how many people out there are using Mobility scooters because the failed a driving licence?... They have found a loophole. No one likes to pick on the disabled persons, so they can ride about as much as they want, "Above the law"..... You dont think that happens?... Seriously?... I know of one who couldn't read a numberplate if it was 20 ft away, let alone 20 meters, (67ft?..) yet has a road going scooter. His disability?... He is an old fool. Retired, but still a fool. No genuine disability, has lost his driving licence for too many accidents, failing eyesight to blame, WONT use the bus, now uses Scooter. He is a legend in his own wake of destruction...
When we get the law breakers off the damn road, perhaps less will be blamed on genuine disabled persons.
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Post by c64 on Aug 7, 2014 10:00:23 GMT
All you need to have is the law and the necessary scooters will enter the market fully automatically. ≤6kph: no tax, no driver's license, no insurance, no license plate (so no license fees) >6 kph: Tax, mandatory driver's license, license plates, insurance. That simple! No matter what, you are always allowed to drive a slow scooter to remain mobile. If you have the money, you can have a fast scooter but with insurance (mandatory) and everything else a motorizes vehicle needs. "you are responsible for any damage you do" is simpler. This is always the case, why should that not be the case?
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 7, 2014 11:13:01 GMT
You do, however, have to sign something that states you are disabled and need a scooter (or that the intended user is) and this can be checked. If you lie about that...congratulations you've just added fraud to whatever else you get charged with.
And yes, anyone can BUY one. Being permitted to USE one is a different matter entirely. The reason for there not being any restrictions for buying one is simply because those who need them might not be physically capable of getting to the shop without having a scooter. So someone who needs a scooter can send a friend or relative to buy one for them (or even a social worker) rather than having to try to get to the shop themselves.
Disabled people can get a car, if they have a driving license. These are new cars provided by companies such as Ford, and can be modified as needed by the user. I'm not sure what the user has to pay for, beyond the fuel, but do know that getting these vehicles is a time consuming process which goes through the DSS and requires them to agree that you have a valid need for a car and a disability and valid driving license.
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Post by c64 on Aug 7, 2014 11:37:54 GMT
Disabled people can get a car, if they have a driving license. These are new cars provided by companies such as Ford, and can be modified as needed by the user. I'm not sure what the user has to pay for, beyond the fuel, but do know that getting these vehicles is a time consuming process which goes through the DSS and requires them to agree that you have a valid need for a car and a disability and valid driving license. A good friend is paraplegic. You can convert any car which has an automatic transmission to be driven by hand only. This is quite expensive, my friend had bought a new car recently and the conversion was €6000. Basically there is a lever just like where the stick shift would be. Push it forwards, it depresses the brake pedal over a system of levers and push-bars. Pull it back and it also depresses the brake pedal but there is a latch like on a classic handbrake to keep the lever in place. Beneath the big knob on the end of the lever is a small lever which works the accelerator pedal. This car can be driven by able people fully normally. Since the car has to be driven "one handed", a knob on the steering wheel is required. Some modern cars come with an option for paraplegic drivers from the manufacturer. There are not many cars to choose from but those have electric controls which are much easier to handle since you need a lot less force and they offer a lot of other extras, e.g. the knob on the steering wheel has buttons to operate the vital controls (turn signals, windscreen wipers, etc) without the need to release the steering wheel. But for used cars or if you just want a different car than is offered for paraplegic, the "all mechanical" retrofit solution is reasonable priced and good enough.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 8, 2014 8:01:57 GMT
Actually, no you dont. Dependant on where you buy them of course..... You only need to sign disabled if you are getting one through disability benefits... But if you are a cash buyer....... Some people buy them for relatives, as a present, you can do that without hindrance or proof of who you are buying for. And its only AFTER purchase you are reminded you need to register for road use numberplate's and tax. Tax is zero rated for disabled persons. Being an Electric vehicle is also zero rated because of emissions... but that is different zero rating from Disability, which you do have to sign for and prove.
The system of Disability cars Mobility vehicles, or Motability vehicles that exists in UK is complicated. You can sign up for a "Basic" vehicle by surrendering your complete mobility payments from the Govt which is given as part of your disability benefits. If you require something a bit more than a two door small vehicle, you can pay extra. The vehicles are then leased to you on a three year deal. They will never actually belong to you in part or whole, after three years or whatever you sign up for, the vehicle will be recovered, the deal ends, and you start again.... Basic insurance is supplied, so is servicing, as they are new vehicles, you will not be required to do any home servicing, but if you note that the vehicle need Oil, you call out the leasing repair team. All you need supply is Water in screen-wash and Petrol.
In case of accident, the vehicle will be repaired or replaced. Dependant on nature of claim, fault, and blame, seriousness of incident, and of course criminal liability... In case of second accident, they may cancel the deal or not dependant on blame. In case of third accident, if its your fault, bye bye car.... Also they require to know for insurance purposes state of licence. If you have too many endorsements for speeding, or any D&D(Drunk) endorsements, whilst driving their vehicle, they may cancel the agreement at any time.
As stated, you NEVER own the vehicle.
However.... If you self finance a purchase of a new vehicle but use your own money and use the Disability Mobility payments as part of your own finance, the car belongs to you once it has been paid for the same as any "Normal" finance deal. You are also responsible for maintenance and all the rest, insurance tax MOT liability the works....
So what is the difference?...
Mobility customers say they get a new vehicle every three years and have no worries at all... Private owners say they have a better choice of vehicle... Mobility say they dont care how reliable the vehicle may be because it will be fixed free... Private say they would rather have a better car that dont need fixing in the first place.
You can see where that argument may continue?....
Because of the draconian limits placed by Mobility, as in you are restricted to a limit of mileage each year which is below "average" use for a family car, I cant agree with them. They say its a personal vehicle... But the disabled person is a family member, he is Dad, or she is Mum, and as so, its reasonable to expect they may be running Kids about?... Not so. Mobility expect ONLY personal use, and unless the person travelling with you is registered as a carer, you better watch out for insurance, as taking a child to University at the start of term with the suitcase for that term, accident, Mobility argued it wasnt intended use of the vehicle and nay not be covered by insurance.
I have also heard an issue from a friend who had to get away from Mobility cars as he found that his Work prohibited him from them... the mileage was too much, and parking in his works car park, they said his insurance would not cover him parked there as it was private ground and he was not in a disability spot.
I helped him find a replacement vehicle. Basically same car better price... but new.... on finance, use it as much as you can because its your car isnt it and thats what its for... insurance said hello and thanks for having a 10yr no claims, here is a cheep CHEEP deal, of course its covered in your work car park as long as your work has insurance, .. The whole deal worked out cheaper, he got three years parts an labour, mileage actually had a "Fair use" restriction on it but unless you were doing 300 mile a day every day you wouldnt ever use that mileage.... And he was free to do what ever the hell he wanted at weekends... Insurance... There is another thing to watch out for. Mobility insurance is provided for the vehicle, its NOT your own personal insurance, you dont accrue no claims, if you go elsewhere you have to have "New" insurance... The friend I mentioned was a multi-car family, he had insurance to drive his Wifes car, and his Kids cara as she worked elsewhere, kid was Uni, so he kept his own insurance records that way. The new vehicle went on one of those multi-car insurance deals.
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