|
|
Post by PK on Nov 14, 2012 17:06:50 GMT
actually, it looked to me like they aimed the cannon higher than they should have. not a case of negligance, just an error. I noticed that as well. IIRC, there was mention of "muzzle lift" as being the cause. I think Jamie said that not long after the accident. Would that be why the cannon appears to be aimed higher then it should have? Which would mean that it was more a matter of them not noticing that it was incorrectly aimed than them deliberately aiming high. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 14, 2012 17:10:26 GMT
it could be that there was a deficiency in the aiming jack that elevated the breech, which allowed the recoil to force it downwards. Tory's gun was built to fire on a "lob" trajectory, not as a direct fire cannon.
the thing's not really built to aim easily, either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 14, 2012 17:10:36 GMT
I think the problem was as I speculated on Disco at the time - basically that the gun carriage wasn't designed to deal with horizontal firings, and that they were using a far larger charge than they had before.
The design of Tori's 'cannon' and its carriage is basically that of a carronade, and these types of gun were rather well known for not handling recoil well when fired with a full charge.
I also noted that the problems with the design were no something MB would have been aware of, or could have predicted unless they happened to have read up on carronades. In this case they had never fired their carronade with anything close to a full charge before, and as such would have been unaware either of the tendency of such a gun to 'jump' or how far such guns could throw shot. (Incidentally, the range they got IS comparable with 24 pound carronades circa 1800)
|
|
|
|
Post by PK on Nov 14, 2012 17:20:02 GMT
I must have missed those comments the first time around (and with all the "doom and gloom - the show is finished" nonsense from drive-by-posters, it's no wonder).
I see what you're saying. Sounds like they were trying to force it down to a horizontal tragectory while still using the original carriage, so it's going to keep trying to return to that original "lob" position with the force of each shot.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 14, 2012 17:29:08 GMT
so the short answer is that the problem with it is that it did what it was designed to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 14, 2012 17:31:49 GMT
I was not aware at the time that it had been Tory's cannon that had been involved in the incident. nor was I aware that the deviation in trajectory was so slight.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 14, 2012 17:32:52 GMT
The problems were flaws in the basic design of their 'cannon', and not problems they would have known about unless they had done some research on carronades rather than cannon.
|
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Nov 14, 2012 18:50:38 GMT
I'm no expert, but to me it looked like the cannon kinda jumped with the recoil and overshot the barrels by no more than a few inches, which would probably amount to about a foot above the point they were actually aiming at.
Design flaw? Yes.
Forseeable? Might have been if they'd known more about cannons (or carronades, as it were).
Negligent? No. Not in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by blindleader on Nov 18, 2012 7:16:45 GMT
actually, it looked to me like they aimed the cannon higher than they should have. From stop framing the shot, it's clear that the gun wasn't properly mounted. While it was aimed correctly, the recoil caused the barrel to rise before the projectile exited the barrel. The shot just barely cleared the top of the ball catchers and must have skipped off the berm before flying into the neighborhood. That's a thing about a smooth bore gun with a loose fitting projectile - a lot of gas escapes ahead of the projectile. In this extreme case it was enough for the recoil to change the trajectory disastrously. I don't like to muck up a forum with a bunch of big images, so here are links to the sequence of frames from the show: www.imagebam.com/image/d7fb74221012804www.imagebam.com/image/263972221012855www.imagebam.com/image/a549c2221012887www.imagebam.com/image/bb0e03221012928Looking at the site again, I'd say the bomb range wasn't an appropriate facility for shooting, regardless of the angle of the shot. The berm is far too gentle a slope for an effective backstop. Any round shot hitting it would be in danger of skipping. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 18, 2012 14:58:44 GMT
The problem was the short barrel and low mass of the gun. A real 24 pound Carronade would be two or three times larger and probably four of five times heavier than Tori's gun, with a MUCH heavier and larger carriage. Yet these guns were still known for their habit of 'jumping' when fired, and in extreme cases could overturn. (Always fun to have to deal with one and a half tons of red-hot metal rolling around the deck of a ship...)
In hindsight it is not surprising that their gun jumped, it is in fact more surprising that it didn't go cartwheeling across the range. Which to me says that for all its intrinsic flaws the thing had been built to a very high standard.
|
|
