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Post by silverdragon on Jul 13, 2017 8:53:09 GMT
Unfortunately those media reports have not accurately reported GOShs postion, they still do not belive that the treatment will,be of any benefit. so it is the old story that the parents are telling the media whatever they want people to believe, while the hospital is effectively prevented by patient privacy rules from correcting the record. - so the only way people can find the real story is to read the court documents. there are some reports now, that the family went to court claiming to have new information, but really only had the same information, repackaged to look new. Read into that "Mommy" and "We will NEVER give up111111111"
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Post by the light works on Jul 13, 2017 14:22:23 GMT
I'll leave the debate over whether or not a felon should lose said privilege at, and during sentencing, that is a different argument. I mean once the offender has completed his/her sentence should ordinarily constitutional rights to be able to defend one's self be restored? Unconditionally? Unconditionally?... no. Conditionally?.. Two extreme sides, light petty theft that was not violent in any way, traffic violations of not taxing vehicle, public drunkenness that wasnt threatening just drunk, if the convict "Prmises" to mend their ways and sticks to that, you are rehabilitated. Armed "Blag" on a bank, anything that is violent, anything causes of intends to cause bodily harm, and that includes driving drunk, loss of privileges and no access to the tools they use for minimum 5 yrs after parole... Drunk Drivers after a third strike, LIFE ban from driving, and no excuses allowed. We are minded that a vehicle is a weapon of mass destruction. So you use a crowbar for work?.. erm, nah, find other work. You were a firearms instructor?.. look at that, you WERE a firearms instructor, you just lost that qualification, we cant trust you. And if the weapon was a kitchen knife picked up in a heated argument that wasnt someone in self defence because the attacker picked up an even BIGGER knife, I suggest they choose takeaway meals?.. Well, not that far, but they aint allowed knives outside their front door. Self defence doesnt mean you need to carry a gun. If you do, MOVE!... get a home somewhere a bit more peaceful?.. talked to a guy who had done a job doing repairs inside a youth detention facility (junior jail) they told him they were assigning him helpers but not to let them have anything they could use for a weapon. "well, that's pretty much anything in my toolbag, innit?"
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 13, 2017 15:37:28 GMT
When I was at Uni a housemate volunteered at Feltham Young Offenders Institution in SW London, he had to be careful even things like plastic rulers could be made into weapons if they were broken and sharpened correctly.
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 13, 2017 16:57:45 GMT
To me, it's a pretty clear cut idea.
A felony is supposed to be a very serious crime. As such, part of your sentence is taking away rights others enjoy (like voting and gun ownership).
Sorry, but if you wanted to keep those rights, maybe you shouldn't have committed the crime?
Similarly, sex offenders are put on a list, and the only way to get off the list is to die. You're on it for life, in or out of prison.
I've seen our "Megan's Law" database in my town. It contains a yearly picture of each and every registered sex offender in the city, as well as a list of their crimes and dates.
Some of those are pictures of people literally at death's door in old age homes, but that doesn't matter--there records are still kept current.
And when you read what they did--well, let's just say it's hard to feel sympathy for them.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 14, 2017 5:35:49 GMT
I had to deliver "Something" to a prison, paperwork, small file, fitted nicely inside my coat, so traffic being backed up to the state of constipation, I forgo the truck and went all Motorcycle on the company, and used my own beloved Ducati 907ie.
They "searched" me, or started to anyway, at the gate. "Anything metal?.." they gave me a tray to check all pieces I wouldnt be allowed... Out came a set of Pliers, a set of hex keys, my feeler gauges [had been having a problem with spark plug gaping with the regular plugs] some screwdrivers, the works usual tool of a Box Knife, a small jemmy, because the crates at HQ sometimes jammed in the racks, the keys to work, the keys to my truck, the keys to my bike, a heavy belt buckle that they allowed me to keep, the belt of my Belstaff, a couple of screws from I forget where but had been in my pocket for ages, my lighter, and a lot of other motorcycle related tools and stuff, hell, here, keep the whole coat until I come back out again. We stopped searching my jacket after just two pockets out of nine, they hung it up over the door, with a warning if it moves, it may need a saucer of milk. I had metal clasps on my boots, metal zip, metal toes, metal sliders on the sides, metal internal bracing to keep the foot from being crushed, heck my boot was half its weight in Kevlar coated metal bracing.... You have no idea what could be used as either a tool or a weapon that we all use on a day to day basis until you are told to consider.... and then maybe you may start to wonder.... My Metal cased scan machine thats used to scan files bar codes was "Not allowed" which caused some concern, how do I get someone to "Sign" for a package if they cant sign the machine's screen pad?..
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 14, 2017 13:16:33 GMT
I had to deliver "Something" to a prison, paperwork, small file, fitted nicely inside my coat, so traffic being backed up to the state of constipation, I forgo the truck and went all Motorcycle on the company, and used my own beloved Ducati 907ie. They "searched" me, or started to anyway, at the gate. "Anything metal?.." they gave me a tray to check all pieces I wouldnt be allowed... Out came a set of Pliers, a set of hex keys, my feeler gauges [had been having a problem with spark plug gaping with the regular plugs] some screwdrivers, the works usual tool of a Box Knife, a small jemmy, because the crates at HQ sometimes jammed in the racks, the keys to work, the keys to my truck, the keys to my bike, a heavy belt buckle that they allowed me to keep, the belt of my Belstaff, a couple of screws from I forget where but had been in my pocket for ages, my lighter, and a lot of other motorcycle related tools and stuff, hell, here, keep the whole coat until I come back out again. We stopped searching my jacket after just two pockets out of nine, they hung it up over the door, with a warning if it moves, it may need a saucer of milk. I had metal clasps on my boots, metal zip, metal toes, metal sliders on the sides, metal internal bracing to keep the foot from being crushed, heck my boot was half its weight in Kevlar coated metal bracing.... You have no idea what could be used as either a tool or a weapon that we all use on a day to day basis until you are told to consider.... and then maybe you may start to wonder.... My Metal cased scan machine thats used to scan files bar codes was "Not allowed" which caused some concern, how do I get someone to "Sign" for a package if they cant sign the machine's screen pad?.. Sounds like it would have been easier for the person to just come out and get the paperwork from you.
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Post by the light works on Jul 14, 2017 14:07:40 GMT
I had to deliver "Something" to a prison, paperwork, small file, fitted nicely inside my coat, so traffic being backed up to the state of constipation, I forgo the truck and went all Motorcycle on the company, and used my own beloved Ducati 907ie. They "searched" me, or started to anyway, at the gate. "Anything metal?.." they gave me a tray to check all pieces I wouldnt be allowed... Out came a set of Pliers, a set of hex keys, my feeler gauges [had been having a problem with spark plug gaping with the regular plugs] some screwdrivers, the works usual tool of a Box Knife, a small jemmy, because the crates at HQ sometimes jammed in the racks, the keys to work, the keys to my truck, the keys to my bike, a heavy belt buckle that they allowed me to keep, the belt of my Belstaff, a couple of screws from I forget where but had been in my pocket for ages, my lighter, and a lot of other motorcycle related tools and stuff, hell, here, keep the whole coat until I come back out again. We stopped searching my jacket after just two pockets out of nine, they hung it up over the door, with a warning if it moves, it may need a saucer of milk. I had metal clasps on my boots, metal zip, metal toes, metal sliders on the sides, metal internal bracing to keep the foot from being crushed, heck my boot was half its weight in Kevlar coated metal bracing.... You have no idea what could be used as either a tool or a weapon that we all use on a day to day basis until you are told to consider.... and then maybe you may start to wonder.... My Metal cased scan machine thats used to scan files bar codes was "Not allowed" which caused some concern, how do I get someone to "Sign" for a package if they cant sign the machine's screen pad?.. I see Greg already said it: bring the recipient to you.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 16, 2017 7:25:42 GMT
Ahhh... that would have been to difficult, they "pay" for delivery to the desk......
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Post by the light works on Jul 16, 2017 15:06:19 GMT
Ahhh... that would have been to difficult, they "pay" for delivery to the desk...... as I see it, if you have a facility with an area that is restricted to the general public, you need to have a receiving desk in a portion that the delivery courier is allowed in. otherwise, if I demand Fed-Ups make a delivery to a place I have made a rule Fed-Ups is not allowed to deliver to, then I am the one at fault.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 17, 2017 6:56:05 GMT
Ahhh... that would have been to difficult, they "pay" for delivery to the desk...... as I see it, if you have a facility with an area that is restricted to the general public, you need to have a receiving desk in a portion that the delivery courier is allowed in. otherwise, if I demand Fed-Ups make a delivery to a place I have made a rule Fed-Ups is not allowed to deliver to, then I am the one at fault. Ahhh... I had/still have, "Security clearance", AvSec rated, that allows me clearance with my badge, to "restricted area's". Only with Clients Consent though. However... If I am to go into a public building such as a court house, I am still subject to usual security clearance... Think a 7.5ton vehicle entering the Tarmac area of an airport, how much space inside that to "Hide" things?. they would still check the vehicle, even if it came with the highest clearance?. Even if I am under "AvSec" rules and my load is AvSec Cleared, I am still required to open for inspection at the security gate. I may not be required to open for inspection at a roadside check by Min-of-Transport "Wombles", only Police may request that, but at AvSec security gates, I am still open for inspection. [ AvSec is higher in security level than Min-Of-Transport, they should know that, but often try it on to "inspect" the load..] Therefore, on entering any premises, I am subject to search, and restrictions on what I take in. If the package fails X-Ray clearance or any other security clearance, I can at that point request the customer come decide if the want it or not at point of entry, but I must make all effort to pass required security clearances as a person at any security they have?. The firm I worked for at that time had higher security rating than many of the clients, being we were off-site secure storage, and therefore, we were expected to be more secure than the clients own property. In truth, I had higher clearance than the clients own front door security staff, but they are doing their job, and we all agree to go through all of this jazz in security to make double sure everything is "safe"... On that particular case, Me and the Prison guards were about the same security level, but me being an ijurt, I just forgot that they may object to a Biker having his toolkit on his person instead of in the panniers on the back of the bike... Yeah, even I can do da stoopid at times?.. but only "little" stoopid, its not as if anyone would have got hurt.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 28, 2017 23:54:18 GMT
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Post by the light works on Jul 29, 2017 0:56:00 GMT
they brought the american doctor - actually a professor - into court, and he admitted he had made the promise without actually looking at Charlie's case study, and also that he had a financial interest in the experimental cure - and that after looking at charlie's case study, the experimental treatment wouldn't have helped charlie at all. at that point, Charlie's parents said if they'd known that, they would have let him go sooner. they wanted to take him home to die, but it wasn't feasible to import a hospice ward into their house; hence the hospice facility.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 29, 2017 1:02:57 GMT
they brought the american doctor - actually a professor - into court, and he admitted he had made the promise without actually looking at Charlie's case study, and also that he had a financial interest in the experimental cure - and that after looking at charlie's case study, the experimental treatment wouldn't have helped charlie at all. at that point, Charlie's parents said if they'd known that, they would have let him go sooner. they wanted to take him home to die, but it wasn't feasible to import a hospice ward into their house; hence the hospice facility. When my dad passed, hospice came to the house. But that's beside the point. This is a case where there are no winners. The only bright side is now Charlie sleeps in the arms of an angel. I guess in that, maybe he was a winner.
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Post by the light works on Jul 29, 2017 5:40:07 GMT
they brought the american doctor - actually a professor - into court, and he admitted he had made the promise without actually looking at Charlie's case study, and also that he had a financial interest in the experimental cure - and that after looking at charlie's case study, the experimental treatment wouldn't have helped charlie at all. at that point, Charlie's parents said if they'd known that, they would have let him go sooner. they wanted to take him home to die, but it wasn't feasible to import a hospice ward into their house; hence the hospice facility. When my dad passed, hospice came to the house. But that's beside the point. This is a case where there are no winners. The only bright side is now Charlie sleeps in the arms of an angel. I guess in that, maybe he was a winner. in a no-win situation, sometimes the best outcome is that you can stop somebody losing.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 29, 2017 13:42:12 GMT
There is also the argument that if the drug had been administered "Six months earlier", it may have been beneficial...
How absolutely perfect is the focus of hindsight?.
Six months ago, they didnt know the exacts of the effects of the problem, and it wasnt that serious, and also, at that time, that drug was not available here in UK either, neither did the parents know it existed, nor did they have the ability to go to America to seek the help of that doctor. Now has it been shown in any way just how much of a benefit it would have had on the child, would it have eased the condition, prevented the spread, been any type of cure, or would it just have prolonged the suffering.
You cant win them all, you cant save them all, it may hurt like hell, but you have to accept there are some time you just can not help.
I wish the parents of the baby all the best and hope they can survive their loss, we offer our condolences, but there was nothing that could be done.
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Post by the light works on Jul 29, 2017 14:02:05 GMT
There is also the argument that if the drug had been administered "Six months earlier", it may have been beneficial... How absolutely perfect is the focus of hindsight?. Six months ago, they didnt know the exacts of the effects of the problem, and it wasnt that serious, and also, at that time, that drug was not available here in UK either, neither did the parents know it existed, nor did they have the ability to go to America to seek the help of that doctor. Now has it been shown in any way just how much of a benefit it would have had on the child, would it have eased the condition, prevented the spread, been any type of cure, or would it just have prolonged the suffering. You cant win them all, you cant save them all, it may hurt like hell, but you have to accept there are some time you just can not help. I wish the parents of the baby all the best and hope they can survive their loss, we offer our condolences, but there was nothing that could be done. I coined the term "armchair quarterquack" to refer to the people who were trying to time machine their way back to when administering the experimental therapy - because, yes, by the time it was offered, it was already too late. sometimes you win, sometimes you never get the chance to play.
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Post by the light works on Jul 29, 2017 16:15:49 GMT
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Post by ironhold on Jul 29, 2017 16:28:17 GMT
There is also the argument that if the drug had been administered "Six months earlier", it may have been beneficial... How absolutely perfect is the focus of hindsight?. Six months ago, they didnt know the exacts of the effects of the problem, and it wasnt that serious, and also, at that time, that drug was not available here in UK either, neither did the parents know it existed, nor did they have the ability to go to America to seek the help of that doctor. Now has it been shown in any way just how much of a benefit it would have had on the child, would it have eased the condition, prevented the spread, been any type of cure, or would it just have prolonged the suffering. You cant win them all, you cant save them all, it may hurt like hell, but you have to accept there are some time you just can not help. I wish the parents of the baby all the best and hope they can survive their loss, we offer our condolences, but there was nothing that could be done. The variation I've heard was "If they had let the family go seek the treatment once they knew of it".
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Post by the light works on Jul 29, 2017 16:35:07 GMT
There is also the argument that if the drug had been administered "Six months earlier", it may have been beneficial... How absolutely perfect is the focus of hindsight?. Six months ago, they didnt know the exacts of the effects of the problem, and it wasnt that serious, and also, at that time, that drug was not available here in UK either, neither did the parents know it existed, nor did they have the ability to go to America to seek the help of that doctor. Now has it been shown in any way just how much of a benefit it would have had on the child, would it have eased the condition, prevented the spread, been any type of cure, or would it just have prolonged the suffering. You cant win them all, you cant save them all, it may hurt like hell, but you have to accept there are some time you just can not help. I wish the parents of the baby all the best and hope they can survive their loss, we offer our condolences, but there was nothing that could be done. The variation I've heard was "If they had let the family go seek the treatment once they knew of it". the link I just posted explains that: the hospital knew of it, first, and were actively seeking to import it; but Charlie had his first devastating seizure before that could happen; and even if he hadn't, there was no evidence at all that the treatment would slow the brain damage that his variant causes. in short, Charlie was never going to get any better, and by the time they figured out what was wrong with him, he was already down to 3%.
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 29, 2017 18:07:05 GMT
Funny. I just reread the discussion here on Charlie. It's only been a month since it started. Seems longer. A more precise timeline of events is here: news.sky.com/story/timeline-parents-battle-to-save-charlie-gard-10914755I also agree with the author of the medium.com piece on reading the court decisions. That's why I quoted them earlier, and reading them gets rid of a lot of misleading reports on the facts of the case. I disagree with his argument that the court didn't kill Charlie. It's a bit too mealy-mouthed, in my opinion, to argue that withdrawing support wasn't killing him. Yes, it was the disease that pushed him to the edge of death, but the final act was switching off the ventilator. It was killing, but I do want to emphasize that it was at least legally (and even arguably morally) justifiable, and not murder. Again, it's my opinion. I don't like whitewashing and quibbling over terminology in ending a human life. It's always killing, but not always murder. Cutting off life support, even when supported by the courts, is still killing. It can be done legally and morally and even be desirable, but at the bottom, it's still killing. There is too much obfuscation and concealment in legalisms that I find distasteful. In my opinion, of course. I prefer to face that fact with as much brutal truth as possible, so as to prevent others from hiding behind euphemisms. I'm sure there will be books written about this case, and it will definitely affect future legislation around the world. We still haven't heard all the details of the maneuvers by the courts. It still does come down to the fight over who decides, and what is for the "good of the patient". Like abortion, I think it is impossible to ever get everyone to agree on it, nor will we ever reach a point where "one size fits all" when it comes to these kinds of decisions. A sad, sad situation. I pray no one else ever has to face a similar one.
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