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Post by the light works on Feb 27, 2016 14:24:04 GMT
however, part of the production of the rocket motor involves mixing the fuel in optimal proportions with the oxidizer. The creamer still doesn't burn better than so many other things, so while it may work, the question is how well? I'd wager it would actually fare worse than, say powdered sugar. well, that's why we ask.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 28, 2016 7:36:49 GMT
That looks like it needs testing for the sake of just testing..... shame none of us can do that innit?...
Eggsactly... powdered eggs anyone?.. would they work?...
"I just come up with the crazy ideas". I didnt say I get them spot on first attempt.... what else would be "better". If anyone says powdered GUN powder at this point, have them taken out and lined up against the wall?...
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Post by OziRiS on Feb 29, 2016 8:40:52 GMT
Question is, do we want things that could be considered viable rocket fuel, or just things that will burn well enough to get some sort of lift? If we just want the latter, the list will become VERY long!
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Post by the light works on Feb 29, 2016 14:47:19 GMT
Question is, do we want things that could be considered viable rocket fuel, or just things that will burn well enough to get some sort of lift? If we just want the latter, the list will become VERY long! my original premise was "let's test everything." of course, it was a bit tongue in cheek.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Feb 29, 2016 15:44:45 GMT
That looks like it needs testing for the sake of just testing..... shame none of us can do that innit?... Eggsactly... powdered eggs anyone?.. would they work?... "I just come up with the crazy ideas". I didnt say I get them spot on first attempt.... what else would be "better". If anyone says powdered GUN powder at this point, have them taken out and lined up against the wall?... They make *powdered* gunpowder? What will they think of next? Pants for dogs?
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Feb 29, 2016 15:47:11 GMT
Powdered creamer is out right off the bat. The energetic fireball you see when people blow that stuff into the air and ignite it is not because the material itself is particularly flammable on its own. If you just pour a pile of it onto the ground and try to set it on fire, you'll find that it actually doesn't burn all that well. That's because - just like with wood - the outer layers have to burn away first to get oxygen to the next layer so it can burn and so on and so forth. In the case of this creamer, the outer layer sort of caramelizes and creates a hard shell, preventing oxygen from reaching the rest of the pile and the fire dies out quickly. Spray it into the air, however and you maximize the surface area of each particle for oxidation, meaning that each particle will burn more rapidly. It's what's known as a dust explosion and you can more or less achieve that with any fine powder. All you need is the right particle-to-oxidizer ratio and an ignition source that burns hot enough to ignite your chosen material. Get that relationship right and you can even do the same thing with fine metal shavings. As a rocket fuel, the creamer would be packed in tightly, leaving almost no space between particles. Limited space means limited surface area, means low oxidation, means slow burn, means no (or at least a very unspectacular) launch. Yay fisiks Combining one or more ideas.... Hows this for lateral thinking. Rocket definition doesnt say I cant, so here I go... Three different chambers, one containing LOX, one containing creamer, one for combustion, set the LOX to pick up "dust" on the way through and ignite in the combustion chamber..... But, the deciding factor would remain in the way that the creamer burns. If it melts & encapsulates itself, you have a dud. If there's a way to pack so that it burns & releases energy, then you have success. Pack it with sawdust? That's a prerequisite for hanging around here.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 6:02:43 GMT
Thats it, you mentioned it.... Have him atken out lined up against the wall, and shot with... Oh, hang on, take him to his office so he can invent whatever it is he is to be shot with, then take him back out and line him up against the wall....
Erm....
Why does it look like this thing is about to fire backwards?... TUM, I know you too well to not be suspect with this new invention.
Excuse me whilst I have the contamination squad deal with an outbreak of ESM in this thread.....
Good... I have more ideas....
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 6:06:51 GMT
I need to ask this, and dont start thinking I am just making this up as I go along, because I am, so, thats why I am asking.
LOX, LIQUID oxygen....
If its a liquid, why cant it be combined with other stuff?.. can you dissolve other stuff in LOX?... Like Fine powdered flour?...
In that way, you have a pressurised container providing some thrust, then something to burn to provide more, then its own oxygen supply to provide complete combustion, and all that in ONE canister....
Plausible?...
Yay phisics?...
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 6:10:53 GMT
I have another environmentally friendly idea.
Use sunlight to power a solar supplied water cracking device that gets you hydrogen and oxygen that then can be used to power a compressor to further compress the fuel to liquid oxygen and hydrogen in the right quantities. Then use that as a rocket power by burning it to provide thrust that will just create steam exhaust?..
A Whole rocket powered from Water and Sunlight.
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2016 6:48:21 GMT
I need to ask this, and dont start thinking I am just making this up as I go along, because I am, so, thats why I am asking. LOX, LIQUID oxygen.... If its a liquid, why cant it be combined with other stuff?.. can you dissolve other stuff in LOX?... Like Fine powdered flour?... In that way, you have a pressurised container providing some thrust, then something to burn to provide more, then its own oxygen supply to provide complete combustion, and all that in ONE canister.... Plausible?... Yay phisics?... you can... once... then you have to go find your mixing bowl. say you try to mix oil with liquid oxygen - this drops the autoignition temperature to somewhere around winter in Siberia. oxygen doesn't burn - oxygen makes the REST of the world burn.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 7:20:04 GMT
I need to ask this, and dont start thinking I am just making this up as I go along, because I am, so, thats why I am asking. LOX, LIQUID oxygen.... If its a liquid, why cant it be combined with other stuff?.. can you dissolve other stuff in LOX?... Like Fine powdered flour?... In that way, you have a pressurised container providing some thrust, then something to burn to provide more, then its own oxygen supply to provide complete combustion, and all that in ONE canister.... Plausible?... Yay phisics?... you can... once... then you have to go find your mixing bowl. say you try to mix oil with liquid oxygen - this drops the autoignition temperature to somewhere around winter in Siberia. oxygen doesn't burn - oxygen makes the REST of the world burn. Right... so, you have to find a fuel that doesnt auto-ignite at the wrong temp... Or does at the right temp?... So, say you have the whole mix cryogenic-ally controlled at below that auto-ignition temp in the tank, then set a bunch of warmers on the exhaust, then the thing will expand (thrust) warm, auto-ignite, and a shed load of thrust right there, thats a double win?... So, in this case, what fuel CAN be used that CAN be controlled in LOX at the right temp?... Or am I just doing the same thing here as they do in the usual form of rockets that are used?...
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2016 7:33:23 GMT
you can... once... then you have to go find your mixing bowl. say you try to mix oil with liquid oxygen - this drops the autoignition temperature to somewhere around winter in Siberia. oxygen doesn't burn - oxygen makes the REST of the world burn. Right... so, you have to find a fuel that doesnt auto-ignite at the wrong temp... Or does at the right temp?... So, say you have the whole mix cryogenic-ally controlled at below that auto-ignition temp in the tank, then set a bunch of warmers on the exhaust, then the thing will expand (thrust) warm, auto-ignite, and a shed load of thrust right there, thats a double win?... So, in this case, what fuel CAN be used that CAN be controlled in LOX at the right temp?... Or am I just doing the same thing here as they do in the usual form of rockets that are used?... I think that is the basic principle of hydrogen peroxide rockets. but yes, the usual form of rockets mixes the fuel and lox in the thrust cone, and lets 'er rip.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 7:39:25 GMT
Right... so, you have to find a fuel that doesnt auto-ignite at the wrong temp... Or does at the right temp?... So, say you have the whole mix cryogenic-ally controlled at below that auto-ignition temp in the tank, then set a bunch of warmers on the exhaust, then the thing will expand (thrust) warm, auto-ignite, and a shed load of thrust right there, thats a double win?... So, in this case, what fuel CAN be used that CAN be controlled in LOX at the right temp?... Or am I just doing the same thing here as they do in the usual form of rockets that are used?... I think that is the basic principle of hydrogen peroxide rockets. but yes, the usual form of rockets mixes the fuel and lox in the thrust cone, and lets 'er rip. There was me thinking they had to have some form of Pilot light on the things..... You learn something new every day?.
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2016 7:43:05 GMT
I think that is the basic principle of hydrogen peroxide rockets. but yes, the usual form of rockets mixes the fuel and lox in the thrust cone, and lets 'er rip. There was me thinking they had to have some form of Pilot light on the things..... You learn something new every day?. I know they have ignitors, but I am not sure they aren't a redundant measure.
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