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Post by OziRiS on Jul 4, 2016 23:04:21 GMT
Are you talking about British politicians or US politicians? They sound the same.  Please educate me here. How are a county's reps to the EU selected? Are they appointed like an ambassador is? Or are they elected? Where did the rules for how they are chosen come from? The EU or the local country? If you can't stand how your rep is doing, is there any recourse for their removal and replacement? If they are elected and the population feels they are not representing them properly, why are they not recalled or voted out? There are different tiers of government within the EU. The European Council, made up of the head of Government of each EU Country, e.g. The British PM or German Chancellors r. The Council of The EU made up of a ministerial level memebers from each Nation. The EU Comission who are the executive branch made up,of appointed commissioners. The Eu Parliment is made of of elected members from each a state, One problem from the British perspective is the method chosen to elect MEPs, a system of Proportional Representation, with a regional Party list system, this is quite alien to us, with our directly elected, first past the post system . The number of MEPs for each country is calculated using a formula that gives less populated nations more than they would on a per capita basis, meaning a UK citizens vote counts less than one from say Luxembourg. Good answer to begin with. I'll elaborate a little on it to answer vwengineer's question. First of all, there's the European Council. As mrfatso says, we sort of vote on who gets to represent us there, as the members of the council are the heads of state for each country. Then there's the European Commission. This is where the President of the Commission sits and is the only organ of the EU that can propose new laws. These law proposals have to be given the okay by both the European Council and the European Parliament before they take effect, but none of those organs can propose laws on their own. Considering how powerful the Commission is, I find it very conspicuous that no EU citizen is given a vote on who sits in the commission. The President is chosen by the European Council and each country (again, the council, not the people) gets to appoint one commissioner. The President then decides who is made commissioner of what. None of the countries have any say in that at all, which basically means that the President can take someone who's an absolute genius in a particular field and appoint them "Commissioner of Whatever the Hell I Feel Like". Not that I'm saying that's what any President has done so far, but he/she could do that if they wanted to. The one mrfatso calls "The Council of the EU" is most often refered to as "The Council of Ministers". This is where each type of minister from each country gets to strut their stuff. Ministers of Justice, Financial Ministers, Environmental Ministers, Agricultural Ministers and so on do their EU related work here. As we don't get to vote on who the PM, Chancellor or President in each country picks as his or her ministers once he/she has won the national election, we actually don't get a say in who gets a seat in the Council of Ministers. We just have to accept whoever our head of state appoints, no matter how inept and incompetent we may feel that person is. Finally, we have the European Parliament. They're the ones who are supposedly representatives of the people and have the power to slay any stupid law the Commission comes up with. Well, sort of. As it is now, they can't vote on a third of the laws proposed for some reason. I haven't been able to figure out why that is. They also don't have any power to propose laws on their own. All they can do is vote 'Yes' or 'No' on whatever the Commission dreams up, so that's about all the public representation we have, apart from our heads of state and whoever they pick out for the European Commission and the Council of Ministers. We're supposed to be able to vote on who we want to represent us in the European Parliament, but I've personally never seen a ballot for that election. For any kind of election we usually get a ballot in the mail and there's extensive news coverage. I don't know how it is in other countries, but if there's ever been an election for the European Parliament in Denmark, it's been kept extremely quiet. No ballots in the mail, no news coverage, no nothing, so exactly how we go about naming who represents us in the European Parliament is a complete mystery to me. Hope that answers all your questions, vwengineer. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 5, 2016 5:25:01 GMT
The UK still has a way to go before it's anywhere near as densely populated as the netherlands or belgium. Not everyone likes crowds. I'll repeat my previous question: Why are the Brits the only indigenous people that are not allowed to control their own territory? And I SECOND that question. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 5, 2016 5:45:55 GMT
And farage and boris both have distanced themselves from any responsibility for the results of their own campaign to leave...rats, ship, sinking etc... Boris, stabbed in the back by the toad that is the Gove. Farage was only EVER interested in the UKIP promise to get this thing done, and get a referendum. The promises of the part have always been that if they ever had (dream on?..) got a majority in Govt and put a PM in, his first and ONLY job would be to call the referendum and get to be the leader of the leave party. As he says "Job done". We voted, we left, why is UKIP still around then anyway?. [They remain active to be the party that "guides" us through actibating article 50... the one we have to "push the button" to make it official we are leaving... there is a lot of debate of what part of europe we wish to negotiate with, as in, do we still want "Common Market" (Of course we do) trade agreements.] That does not ecuse his antics, hos bad manners, his blatant cock-a-snoop at his fellow MEP members in the EU parliamnent "Who's laughing now" and his insults he let fly at his last visit... He didnt do our country any favours, he is a twit, and it is better he wented, before he was pushed, ambushed, .... And I ask, isnt it about time we had a change of Govt, its previous style or terror is about to be ended. And yes, I am talking about its "Scare ware" promises of "If we dont do this t' world will end" promises. What we need now is leadership who give us "The right reason" for its actions, set achievable targets, stop bullCRAPting the general public, and get on and do the job. I wont excuse the language, because this is the truth, this is what we need. If you know me by now, you will be aware I have looked at both sides of the story. Was I a Bexiteer or a remanian?.. that doesnt matter. We Voted, we HAVE a result, we now must action the countries wishes. I supporrt neiter side now, because that was the past, so I must distance myself from the argument of who-did-what... If I tip a wagon over and there are a couple of hundred gallons of "Etch" starting to seep out and ain downhill for that wildlife reserve, do I stand about chewing the fat over who caused the accident, me, of the car that tried to overtake met an oncoming car and went under my wheels?.. No that is for the insurance adjusters and the dash cam footage. What I need now is several tons of kitty litter that the emergency hazard call out team have, bags of "absorb", or a fire engine with a LOT of neutraliser on board, SOP states that there should be a TREM card, or emergency procedures card, behind the drivers head, or as close to that as you can get, that has the numbers on it to dial in an emergency to call out the emergency containment unit that deals with such... This is what I am doing now. Things have changed, we NEED to move on, who are the best people we can choose from to help us do that?. Obviously it isnt going to be the lying scumbags who tied to give us a campaign of fear-mongering during that last vote, so who else is suitable?. Theresa May looks like she might get the vote. She is the lady that set her career to making SURE the scumbag hook-hamza was deported. We know she hits her targets. Maybe she would be good at the job. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 11, 2016 12:59:16 GMT
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 11, 2016 13:31:21 GMT
IT is still possible that the Conservative party might put a symbolic candidate up against her so they can say an election took place. Labour has its own contest at the moment, and it is not clear if the current leader Jeremey Corbyn will be a candidate, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756975Party rules say that a challenger in a leadership contest needs to be nominated by 51 MPs or MEPs, and it is difficult to see him getting enough. His camp point out that as the current incumbent he does not need nominations to be in the contest, both sides are consulting lawyers.. Then there is the question of should we have a General Election in response to this, perhaps before article 50 is invoked. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2016 16:35:56 GMT
IT is still possible that the Conservative party might put a symbolic candidate up against her so they can say an election took place. Labour has its own contest at the moment, and it is not clear if the current leader Jeremey Corbyn will be a candidate, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756975Party rules say that a challenger in a leadership contest needs to be nominated by 51 MPs or MEPs, and it is difficult to see him getting enough. His camp point out that as the current incumbent he does not need nominations to be in the contest, both sides are consulting lawyers.. Then there is the question of should we have a General Election in response to this, perhaps before article 50 is invoked. The British public has been asked if you wanted to stay or leave and you've made your stance clear. I think it's only reasonable that you also get to vote on who leads you through the resulting changes from here. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 11, 2016 20:57:09 GMT
I agree it would be the most democratic thing to do.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2016 21:31:51 GMT
I agree it would be the most democratic thing to do. Which is apparently not what you'll be doing, because it's already been officially announced that Theresa May will be taking over for David Cameron on Wednesday. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 11, 2016 21:55:01 GMT
I agree it would be the most democratic thing to do. Which is apparently not what you'll be doing, because it's already been officially announced that Theresa May will be taking over for David Cameron on Wednesday. Since David Cameron brought in the 'Fixed Term Parliment Act' in 2011 the PM lost the power to,call a snap election, the next one is due in 2020. It would be possible to hold a new election if an emergency vote of the House of Commons voted for a new one. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 12, 2016 5:58:42 GMT
Would YOU vote for the opposition "At this time"....
The Labour party is in more disarray than it has ever been in its whole history, Brown, Millibanyd, Corbyn, all failures.
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 12, 2016 6:41:12 GMT
Would YOU vote for the opposition "At this time".... The Labour party is in more disarray than it has ever been in its whole history, Brown, Millibanyd, Corbyn, all failures. Asking the MPs to vote for a new election at the moment is a little like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas. Politics at the moment is in so much turmoil that they would rather keep their heads down, keep their jobs and hope that the dust has settled in 4 years time. Again although Corbyn has been a failure each MP has to decide if their constituents would vote for THEM, in person not just the party leadership. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 17, 2016 8:05:11 GMT
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Post by kharnynb on Apr 5, 2018 14:23:33 GMT
So, continuing here, on your post:
It's article 50, not 52, you guys triggered it, knowing it would have a specific time frame...maybe first prepare before jumping of the cliff?
I have no clue where you get that 160 billion "bill" from, that's more than the whole EU budget, so I'm guessing you can provide a source for this number?
The you needing us more than we need you is simple economics, and not based on you staying or leaving, but on the actual negotiating positions, where the UK has been rather unreasonable so far.
The hard border is a simple result of the UK negotiator stating they will not guarantee that you will follow EU food/product law after leaving, which means there will have to be checks on the border as we cannot just import straight after that.
The border in france, is YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT, we offered that you can make it on your side, but that wasn't "acceptable", if you want the british side of the border on french territory, you'll have to pay for it.
If you are so intent on keeping Northern ireland and scotland, why are you ignoring their wish to stay in the EU? or is it suddenly that England is the biggest so they get to decide?
By the way, the insulting idea that I have no clue what goes on in the EU and UK, even though i've lived in the Netherlands, Germany, Cambridge and finland, read 4 different countries news sites and actually care about these subjects is just your lazy way of STILL not quoting a single source or actual link for these things.
You want to take back control, that's fine.
You want to leave, Fine.
But don't leave and turn around and want to get all the good stuff that you just left.
Britain seems to want to go from the country that was in the EU with a lot of outs, to the country that's out of the EU with a lot of ins...
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 6, 2018 8:39:17 GMT
What exactly are you demanding links for that isnt already available in mainstream media in one form or another?.
NOTHING I have said on the subject isnt freely available in mainstream media. Even if some of the more wildly claims made by the daily wail, ooops sorry, daily Mail or wail online, seem to believe it would all be a lot better is "Diana were still alive"....
Most of what I am reporting is just common knowledge.
And yet your claims that we wont be any good without the eu are backed up by what?. Where are the links that I would ingnore anyway that actually prove any of that?.
I would ignore, because I seem doom-sayers everywhere, but not one bit of what WILL be better is ever reported?.
Not because it doesnt exist, but the current trend of disaster is good and drop the dead donkey we have a beast from the east that may bring Snow in Summer makes better reading than we may have a good week of good weather coming up, and back to the doom-sayers on Brexit, much of it is "talking heads" who's opinion is only to get their name in the news.
Northern Ireland and Scotland, are you forgetting Wales in this, or does Cornwall not matter either?. We were given a vote, it was rather 50/50, but Exit won, and that vote was ALL the people of ALL counties, towns territories islands, Gibraltar even voted, and "the bigger vote" was leave.
Thats how democracy works innit?.. The bigger vote wins?. And may I remind you here that if you were keeping in on knowing what goes on here, you would have noted in you interest, that complete CITIES in England voted more stay that leave, but, more people in the final vote, which was more 51:49 than 50:50, but the eventual tally was democracy wins, and the final result, Leave.
You may not like three people to two voting on Cinema vs Bowling, but unless you want to split the party, you all go cinema?.
That is democracy, or are you in favour of "It aint fair we didnt win" politics where the loosers get the loudest voice?.
Which I note is an annoying trend in politics these days.
I see it ironic that you demand links but still claim you know the stuff already.
And thanks for reminding me I am dyslexic, B instead of M, and also I have fixed the article 50 instead of 53 typo, but did you need to make a pedantic point of that that because I got the wrong number "Everything" must be wrong?. I had teachers like that at school, ignoring my disability of being dyslexic and sending a whole exam back as a fail because I spelt a word or two wrong, and that was the Maths test, even though the maths were exact, because I spell equals with two L's, I must fail the test?.
I must remember to run all of your posts through a spell-checker and pick you up on your minor mistakes and hold them up for public scrutiny. See how you like it?...
Except I would ask in humour if that was a type not make up a whole post about "SEE He made a very minor mistake, but still because he is human and we all make mistake, he must be LYING"...
This is a forum, not a flame war, I would not make those type of flying troll attacks on you, so why do you need to make them against anybody on here.
And for the record, I say this as a friend, I dont hold any of this against you, this is, after all, a discussion, and between friends, nothing we say here will change the course of history.
However, out wider in the field, this forum has in its own way changed the way people see science, we may be changing history together out there.
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