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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 5, 2016 12:48:12 GMT
my empty weight is 5 tons. I think my highest weight across the scales has been 8, with trailer. Are you discussing a Work truck or a daily driver?.. because 5 tons unladen 8 laden is "7.5ton" weight, or the old class 3 weight, Light goods weight of over what the hell your allowed with a normal car licence in UK now. Its into what we now class as LGV, Light Goods Vehicle. Its also what could be pulled by a small landrover as a trailer anyway, but a tug-of-war between the two, either laden or unladen, would be interesting, because all the weight advantage is to the 5ton unladen that you got there. I believe TLW is talking about his work truck, which I'm sure he drives daily. That said, my wife's Excursion has a gross wight of almost 5 tons. Its just considered a passenger vehicle although it is built on the Ford F-250 truck frame. It's recommended tire pressure is 55 psi.
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Post by the light works on Aug 5, 2016 14:31:59 GMT
my empty weight is 5 tons. I think my highest weight across the scales has been 8, with trailer. Are you discussing a Work truck or a daily driver?.. because 5 tons unladen 8 laden is "7.5ton" weight, or the old class 3 weight, Light goods weight of over what the hell your allowed with a normal car licence in UK now. Its into what we now class as LGV, Light Goods Vehicle. Its also what could be pulled by a small landrover as a trailer anyway, but a tug-of-war between the two, either laden or unladen, would be interesting, because all the weight advantage is to the 5ton unladen that you got there. yes.
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Post by kharnynb on Aug 7, 2016 8:52:26 GMT
here, if your daily driver goes over 3500 kg, it requires a special license, so they are really only owned by people who NEED them or very specific hobbyists.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 9, 2016 19:12:11 GMT
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Post by the light works on Sept 9, 2016 19:28:46 GMT
Do you realize how many houses go up from loose wires?
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 9, 2016 21:10:52 GMT
Do you realize how many houses go up from loose wires? Yes, I do. But did you look at the video of the car fire? That was a lot more than just wire insulation or even seating material burning. It was most likely the lithium battery pack the was fueling the flames. Now maybe the pack overheated because of a lose connection, but to say it was just caused by a lose connection isn't really being totally honest.
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2016 2:09:25 GMT
Do you realize how many houses go up from loose wires? Yes, I do. But did you look at the video of the car fire? That was a lot more than just wire insulation or even seating material burning. It was most likely the lithium battery pack the was fueling the flames. Now maybe the pack overheated because of a lose connection, but to say it was just caused by a lose connection isn't really being totally honest. It can still have been CAUSED by a loose wire, and involved the batteries when it took off
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 10, 2016 2:37:49 GMT
I have no reason to believe that a lose connection wasn't a contributing factor. But the car was destroyed because the battery went up. And blaming it on JUST a loose connection isn't going to get around that fact.
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2016 3:36:48 GMT
I have no reason to believe that a lose connection wasn't a contributing factor. But the car was destroyed because the battery went up. And blaming it on JUST a loose connection isn't going to get around that fact. Cause is defined as ignition source, not as what it spread to. Saying the car caught fire because of the batteries is like saying a house that collapsed caught fire because of the lightweight trusses. Yeah. When you catch a lithium battery on fire, you're not stopping it. But there is a key difference between the battery being the ignition source and the battery being the fuel.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 10, 2016 4:47:08 GMT
I have no reason to believe that a lose connection wasn't a contributing factor. But the car was destroyed because the battery went up. And blaming it on JUST a loose connection isn't going to get around that fact. Cause is defined as ignition source, not as what it spread to. Saying the car caught fire because of the batteries is like saying a house that collapsed caught fire because of the lightweight trusses. Yeah. When you catch a lithium battery on fire, you're not stopping it. But there is a key difference between the battery being the ignition source and the battery being the fuel. Then I guess we agree, because that's what I said.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 10, 2016 8:23:55 GMT
Whwn you have that kind of battery power under the hood instead of an infernal combustion engine, any "Loose wire" that may arc across between the terminals is going to melt something.
Cant quite remember what it was about but I seem to remember the discussion on someone here who managed to short circuit a 12volt car battery back a few years, and I remembered myself almost melting a good forged steel spanner that fell on top of a spare battery?.. Once that get a hold of the car... and Tesla like many other super-car makers use lightweight body panels, and inner panels, dashboard etc, carbon fibre glass fibre?.. even the bonding agent is flammable. Once the heat builds up in the wire work, and gets to the surrounding plastics, ....
If you have ever seen a Plastic Rat go up (Reliant Robin) you will know what I mean, burnt to the ground before the fire engine made the 15min trip to get there.
So suggesting a loose wire "may" have caused this?.. entirely plausible. Why was this one installed by hand an not robot?.. Maybe the first part failed under test, so they swapped it out before delivery?..
How many of you can guarantee that all the parts on your car were there when the car first left the production line?.. they run them through tests before delivery, and any duff parts are changed... It may also have been changed between test drives, the car being used was the one used to demonstrate the vehicle to MANY people.
battery power...
And how many houses would that burn down if all the blue smoke escapes in 5 mins flat?..
Not disagreeing with anyone here, just using what I know about the kind of technology under the bonnet of that car, and what that bonnet is made of.
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2016 13:25:54 GMT
Whwn you have that kind of battery power under the hood instead of an infernal combustion engine, any "Loose wire" that may arc across between the terminals is going to melt something. Cant quite remember what it was about but I seem to remember the discussion on someone here who managed to short circuit a 12volt car battery back a few years, and I remembered myself almost melting a good forged steel spanner that fell on top of a spare battery?.. Once that get a hold of the car... and Tesla like many other super-car makers use lightweight body panels, and inner panels, dashboard etc, carbon fibre glass fibre?.. even the bonding agent is flammable. Once the heat builds up in the wire work, and gets to the surrounding plastics, .... If you have ever seen a Plastic Rat go up (Reliant Robin) you will know what I mean, burnt to the ground before the fire engine made the 15min trip to get there. So suggesting a loose wire "may" have caused this?.. entirely plausible. Why was this one installed by hand an not robot?.. Maybe the first part failed under test, so they swapped it out before delivery?.. How many of you can guarantee that all the parts on your car were there when the car first left the production line?.. they run them through tests before delivery, and any duff parts are changed... It may also have been changed between test drives, the car being used was the one used to demonstrate the vehicle to MANY people. battery power... And how many houses would that burn down if all the blue smoke escapes in 5 mins flat?.. Not disagreeing with anyone here, just using what I know about the kind of technology under the bonnet of that car, and what that bonnet is made of. And the main power cabes run in excess of 100 volts. I think multiples of that but i am being conservative. And this is not to be confused with, say, the galaxy note 7 in which it is battery failures coking them off.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 10, 2016 21:03:01 GMT
And the main power cabes run in excess of 100 volts. I think multiples of that but i am being conservative. And this is not to be confused with, say, the galaxy note 7 in which it is battery failures coking them off. Just out of curiosity, TLW, have they given you any training on how to handle electric vehicle fires?
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2016 22:01:06 GMT
And the main power cabes run in excess of 100 volts. I think multiples of that but i am being conservative. And this is not to be confused with, say, the galaxy note 7 in which it is battery failures coking them off. Just out of curiosity, TLW, have they given you any training on how to handle electric vehicle fires? Basic training. We haven't gotten to tear any apart yet. But we know to look for the battery switch and DON'T CUT THE ORANGE WIRES. other than that it is pretty similar to cars with other energy sources. Foam the s*** out of it and stay clear of bumpers. (Yes bumpers blowing off and taking out legs IS confirmed.)
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 11, 2016 7:49:24 GMT
Just out of curiosity, TLW, have they given you any training on how to handle electric vehicle fires? Basic training. We haven't gotten to tear any apart yet. But we know to look for the battery switch and DON'T CUT THE ORANGE WIRES. other than that it is pretty similar to cars with other energy sources. Foam the s*** out of it and stay clear of bumpers. (Yes bumpers blowing off and taking out legs IS confirmed.) I am going to stretch out here and suggest not a lot of difference than any other electrical fire that any other fireman needs to deal with.... TLW suggests foam, if it were me, I would suggest Dry Powder, mostly because thats what I carry [carried] on my truck doing HazChem work, 12lbs of it, now I just get a smaller one, but Dry powder is less electrical conductive, and I dont get the fancy foam stuff Firemen use. Any electrical fire is **DONT THROW WATER** but otherwise same as any other fire, starve of oxygen and cool it as much as possible. And then if the driver starts to run... "Do try and keep up"....
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Post by the light works on Sept 11, 2016 13:45:25 GMT
We don't carry class D agents. So if there is an outside loop power source measured in kv, it is hands off. A battery is an inside source and so the worst case is it will ground to itself and catch fire.
If it is on fire, that's already happened.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 11, 2016 13:54:10 GMT
Any electrical fire is **DONT THROW WATER** but otherwise same as any other fire, starve of oxygen and cool it as much as possible. And then if the driver starts to run... "Do try and keep up".... The problem with lithium battery fires is that, it's not the stored electrical energy that is causing the fire, it's the chemical make up of the battery. And smothering them from oxygen doesn't work. The oxidizer is built in.
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Post by the light works on Sept 11, 2016 14:34:50 GMT
What used to be the fire triangle of fuel, oxygen, heat; is now a tetrahedron, adding the chain reaction. You extinguish the fire by removing fuel, heat, or oxygen; or by stalling the reaction.
Flooding it with foam tries to rob enough heat to stall it, but primarily prevents it from getting to other fuel.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 12, 2016 6:19:06 GMT
Then the best advice given is get out, call the fire brigade out, and stay out, and possibly get everyone to put a little distance between themselves and the fire.
If fires start bringing their own oxidiser....
Which brings a myth. Thermite, once it starts, you cant put it out.....
So, with all the other exotic things they are putting in batteries these days, any others in there that can go the way of thermite?....
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Post by the light works on Sept 12, 2016 12:05:45 GMT
Then the best advice given is get out, call the fire brigade out, and stay out, and possibly get everyone to put a little distance between themselves and the fire. If fires start bringing their own oxidiser.... Which brings a myth. Thermite, once it starts, you cant put it out..... So, with all the other exotic things they are putting in batteries these days, any others in there that can go the way of thermite?.... I would bet a class D extunguisher could stall thermite if you actually had time to use it. That said: the training we give for extinguisher selection: Class a makes ash Class b bubbles and boils Class c carries current Class d... DAMN
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