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Post by GTCGreg on May 10, 2020 17:37:09 GMT
I wonder if the unemployed in California agree. I wonder if tesla salesmen will be joining the ranks of the unemployed in California. I can see the people who can afford to buy teslas being in a position to express their disapproval of his petty tactics with their wallets. addendum: I question whether his employees are paid well enough to be his customers. I wouldn't be one of his customers even if I was paid enough. I'll stick with my Jeep.
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Post by the light works on May 10, 2020 17:38:16 GMT
as of 2019, tesla reported just over 48,000 employees. California has 35 million people. if all of them worked in California, laying them off would only increase unemployment by .1%. granted, it still sucks to be in that percentage, but really, in the big picture, it only puts Musk more firmly in the category of spoiled rich jerk.
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Post by wvengineer on May 10, 2020 22:18:14 GMT
I have little sympathy for Musk. He seams like the 21 century version of Steve Jobs, or possible Jim Jones or Joseph Smith. He is a one man cult of personality. Great at sounding smart and surrounding himself with smart people, short on actual foresight and real understanding on how thw world really works.
When Tesla set up shop in California, he new what he was getting into as far as regional politics. Sounds like his charisma finally hit a limit and he met someone that wasn't a yes-man for him.
I do feel sorry for the people who hired on as part of his cult of personality and now got left high, dry, and out of work due to his ego.
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Post by GTCGreg on May 11, 2020 0:27:15 GMT
I have little sympathy for Musk. He seams like the 21 century version of Steve Jobs, or possible Jim Jones or Joseph Smith. He is a one man cult of personality. Great at sounding smart and surrounding himself with smart people, short on actual foresight and real understanding on how thw world really works. When Tesla set up shop in California, he new what he was getting into as far as regional politics. Sounds like his charisma finally hit a limit and he met someone that wasn't a yes-man for him. I do feel sorry for the people who hired on as part of his cult of personality and now got left high, dry, and out of work due to his ego. I was never a big fan of Musk or Steve Jobs for that matter. But I do have to admire both men for being the innovators that they are. Whether they used other people‘s talents or other peoples money to accomplish their vision, all of us have benefited from it. And yes, Tesla is a small part of California’s employment scene. But there are many other companies leaving California for the same reasons. The numbers add up. Unless a state can maintain an environment favorable to industry, the industries they have are going to leave. We have the same problem in Illinois. We are losing companies right and left and it isn’t because of our geography. It’s because of our policies.
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Post by the light works on May 11, 2020 1:37:53 GMT
I have little sympathy for Musk. He seams like the 21 century version of Steve Jobs, or possible Jim Jones or Joseph Smith. He is a one man cult of personality. Great at sounding smart and surrounding himself with smart people, short on actual foresight and real understanding on how thw world really works. When Tesla set up shop in California, he new what he was getting into as far as regional politics. Sounds like his charisma finally hit a limit and he met someone that wasn't a yes-man for him. I do feel sorry for the people who hired on as part of his cult of personality and now got left high, dry, and out of work due to his ego. I was never a big fan of Musk or Steve Jobs for that matter. But I do have to admire both men for being the innovators that they are. Whether they used other people‘s talents or other peoples money to accomplish their vision, all of us have benefited from it. And yes, Tesla is a small part of California’s employment scene. But there are many other companies leaving California for the same reasons. The numbers add up. Unless a state can maintain an environment favorable to industry, the industries they have are going to leave. We have the same problem in Illinois. We are losing companies right and left and it isn’t because of our geography. It’s because of our policies. technically, it is because of other places' lack of policies.
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Post by GTCGreg on May 11, 2020 1:48:39 GMT
I was never a big fan of Musk or Steve Jobs for that matter. But I do have to admire both men for being the innovators that they are. Whether they used other people‘s talents or other peoples money to accomplish their vision, all of us have benefited from it. And yes, Tesla is a small part of California’s employment scene. But there are many other companies leaving California for the same reasons. The numbers add up. Unless a state can maintain an environment favorable to industry, the industries they have are going to leave. We have the same problem in Illinois. We are losing companies right and left and it isn’t because of our geography. It’s because of our policies. technically, it is because of other places' lack of policies. I see. So if everywhere treated the manufacturing sector like crap, we'd all be better off. The EPA tried that. That's why so much of what we need is made in China. And it's not just manufacturing. Farmers in California are also having a hard time of it. It's not like they can pack up their land and take it somewhere else. In order to move their farms, they have to be able to buy land somewhere else and they can't afford to buy land if they can't sell their old land, which no one wants because it can't be farmed in California.
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Post by the light works on May 11, 2020 1:54:26 GMT
technically, it is because of other places' lack of policies. I see. So if everywhere treated the manufacturing sector like crap, we'd all be better off. The EPA tried that. That's why so much of what we need is made in China. And it's not just manufacturing. Farmers in California are also having a hard time of it. It's not like they can pack up their land and take it somewhere else. In order to move their farms, they have to be able to buy land somewhere else and they can't afford to buy land if they can't sell their old land, which no one wants because it can't be farmed in California. if illinois let manufacturers do whatever they wanted with no regard for the other people who live there, and eliminated minimum wage, the manufacturers would probably come back. of course, illinois would probably become as unlivable as central california, but you gotta have your priorities. I mean having the rivers regularly catch on fire wasn't THAT bad, was it?
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Post by GTCGreg on May 11, 2020 1:57:01 GMT
I see. So if everywhere treated the manufacturing sector like crap, we'd all be better off. The EPA tried that. That's why so much of what we need is made in China. And it's not just manufacturing. Farmers in California are also having a hard time of it. It's not like they can pack up their land and take it somewhere else. In order to move their farms, they have to be able to buy land somewhere else and they can't afford to buy land if they can't sell their old land, which no one wants because it can't be farmed in California. if illinois let manufacturers do whatever they wanted with no regard for the other people who live there, and eliminated minimum wage, the manufacturers would probably come back. of course, illinois would probably become as unlivable as central california, but you gotta have your priorities. I mean having the rivers regularly catch on fire wasn't THAT bad, was it? Doesn't really matter. The Global Warming, Climate Change, Extreme Weather folks say they are all going to evaporate anyway.
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Post by the light works on May 11, 2020 14:28:55 GMT
how about this for a compromise for all the people who are concerned that if the US adopts universal healthcare, they won't be able to keep their insurance: allow insurance companies to register as gambling companies, and they can lay odds on people experiencing health events. of course, since they are now controlled as gambling companies instead of as insurance compnies, federal law will require them to pay out 80% of their revenues instead of 40%, but on the good side, they will probably be able to move the majority of their operation online and not have to have local offices.
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Post by GTCGreg on May 11, 2020 14:33:29 GMT
how about this for a compromise for all the people who are concerned that if the US adopts universal healthcare, they won't be able to keep their insurance: allow insurance companies to register as gambling companies, and they can lay odds on people experiencing health events. of course, since they are now controlled as gambling companies instead of as insurance compnies, federal law will require them to pay out 80% of their revenues instead of 40%, but on the good side, they will probably be able to move the majority of their operation online and not have to have local offices. I think you may be on to something. Since the Casinos are shut down anyway, why not let them take wagers on whether you are going to get sick in the next year. Heck, for that matter, we could also let them handle your life insurance too.
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Post by the light works on May 11, 2020 14:45:40 GMT
how about this for a compromise for all the people who are concerned that if the US adopts universal healthcare, they won't be able to keep their insurance: allow insurance companies to register as gambling companies, and they can lay odds on people experiencing health events. of course, since they are now controlled as gambling companies instead of as insurance compnies, federal law will require them to pay out 80% of their revenues instead of 40%, but on the good side, they will probably be able to move the majority of their operation online and not have to have local offices. I think you may be on to something. Since the Casinos are shut down anyway, why not let them take wagers on whether you are going to get sick in the next year. Heck, for that matter, we could also let them handle your life insurance too. our local casino is planning to take a gamble on whether there will be adverse repercussions from opening back up in defiance of stay-at-home orders, and from requiring their staff to come back to work under threat of summary discharge if they refuse.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 11, 2020 22:19:00 GMT
And speaking of moving assets, Elon Musk has had enough. He said he is pulling Tesla out of California. He claims it's because of the local politicians excessive and unconstitutional power grab during the COVID pandemic, but I think that was just the icing on the cake. He's been complaining about California's excessive regulations on manufacturing for a long time. California lawmakers response is f*** You. Texas responds, "you are more than welcome to move here." Sounds like he is going to move his "trickle down" jobs to Nevada and Texas. www.businessinsider.com/california-assemblywoman-tweets-f-elon-musk-in-tesla-factory-row-2020-5California seems intent on passing laws that do nothing but cripple small businesses and make larger ones look for better, and less expensive, locations. They've done this with new regulations that seem specifically tailored to make it as unprofitable as possible for small entertainment production companies to work in California. Something of a major issue when one of your main businesses is entertainment.
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Post by wvengineer on May 11, 2020 22:38:49 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on May 11, 2020 23:19:20 GMT
As I stated previously, I'm no fan of Musk, but I tend to be on his side on this one.
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Post by wvengineer on May 12, 2020 0:12:12 GMT
Knowing him, this was either a stupid move where he spoke before his handlers had a chance to reign him in, or he was trying to get some concession out of the state, but when they were willing to call his bluff, he was caught without a good hand of cards and is now having to back track to save his company.
Closing the factory due to Covid-19 would have been a major blow to the company. That plant has had LOTS of investment from the state to the tune of tens of millions. If they close, they would have to repay those.Next you have the cost shut down the factory, severance for employees or relocation, moving and setting up equipment, and have one of your few production facilities shut down for 2 to 4 years while you relocate and get your new factory setup and running. We are talking about well into the billions that such a move would cost the company. For a small automaker, this would be a serious hit to the company, one they may not be able to survive.
This whole thing is Musk pushing to restart production. I get the feeling that the company is feeling the hurt of not being able to produce which it get. However, shutting everything down and running for another state will not get cars off the line any faster. It shuts you down for YEARS.
If he was truly concerned about his company and getting back and running as soon as possible, he should be looking at what options he has to minimize down time and get employees back to work in safe manner. You don't do that by insulting by insulting the regulators that you should be working with. Factories all over the country are coming up with ways to reopen but still protect employees. You do that by coming up with a plan that works with your limitations and working with your regulator.
Giving them the finger only costs you company big money.
It is very possible he had his rant and the company told him that he was out of his f***ing mind. The board told him what such a move would cost the company that is struggling to make money as it is. Either he can sink the company or he can put his neck on the line and take the fall for his rash move.
On top of all that, in his push to reopen too soon, he could be opening the company up to a whole slue of new, preventable costs and issues with their employees.
I am no fan of Cali and a lot of their business policies, but I side with them here.
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Post by GTCGreg on May 12, 2020 0:45:51 GMT
I’m not sure he was talking about moving the entire manufacturing facility. It sounds like he was just talking about moving their headquarters. That would not be that difficult to do.
I like that some of these companies are finally starting to push back at the state. I loved with the Pacific power company did when the state said that they were holding them responsible for forest fires. Fine, when it gets windy, we’re just shutting off the power. After a few days of no power, the state started changing their policies.
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Post by the light works on May 12, 2020 0:47:34 GMT
I doubt it would shut him up, either. what should be done is if businesses insist on opening up early, the owners are PERSONALLY liable for any COVID related health costs; and may not terminate anyone for refusing to report to work.
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Post by the light works on May 12, 2020 0:50:54 GMT
I’m not sure he was talking about moving the entire manufacturing facility. It sounds like he was just talking about moving their headquarters. That would not be that difficult to do. depends on whether the headquarters personnel want to move to nevada or texas. it would also not have any effect on the factory being shut down - and the headquarters people can probably already work from home.
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Post by the light works on Nov 18, 2020 14:43:29 GMT
okay, this one isn't as scary soshulist as many of my ideas, but it keeps coming into my mind that if I were in the business of building apartment block towers (in a city with decent public transit), I would be inclined to put a generously sized parking garage on the lower levels, have a loading dock and freight elevator available for move in and move out; and either set up my own car rental company or collaborate with a car rental company to have a car share program available to the tenants.
the logic is that first, it would add value to the rental; and second, it would remove a need for car ownership among a demographic that would only use a car occasionally. if the program was partnered with a rental agency, there would even be a bit of cushion for having everybody wanting to use a car on the same weekend.
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Post by rmc on Nov 18, 2020 15:06:49 GMT
okay, this one isn't as scary soshulist as many of my ideas, but it keeps coming into my mind that if I were in the business of building apartment block towers (in a city with decent public transit), I would be inclined to put a generously sized parking garage on the lower levels, have a loading dock and freight elevator available for move in and move out; and either set up my own car rental company or collaborate with a car rental company to have a car share program available to the tenants. the logic is that first, it would add value to the rental; and second, it would remove a need for car ownership among a demographic that would only use a car occasionally. if the program was partnered with a rental agency, there would even be a bit of cushion for having everybody wanting to use a car on the same weekend. I've thought sort of along these lines. My thought is that, perhaps in the future, a person orders a year's worth of stuff, it arrives on a pallet and the side of the building can open up to take it in. With your loading dock lift set up, all that's required is a hand trolly pallet forklift and a wide front door on each apartment. Of course storage, the need for deep freezers and the continued need to get weekly fresh vegetables and fruit or whatever makes this additional concept (atop yours) a pipedream.
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