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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2013 10:22:28 GMT
I would bet an Audi over Viper "In standard tune" every time....
The green hell is all about Corners, and true to form, the American car understands corners about the same as the Stig understands Stairs?....
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Post by c64 on Jan 26, 2013 10:43:00 GMT
I would bet an Audi over Viper "In standard tune" every time.... The green hell is all about Corners, and true to form, the American car understands corners about the same as the Stig understands Stairs?.... Correct, but with less than 350 horsies in the Audi and the quattro drive, the Viper can make up between the corners. The lap records say the Viper is better, but that's done when the car doesn't have to last for more than a single lap. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2013 12:24:07 GMT
So what about the same driver in Both cars... would he drive the Audi faster or the Viper?...
What about if you got the two cars to the same power output?...
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Post by srracing on Jan 26, 2013 14:33:32 GMT
So what about the same driver in Both cars... would he drive the Audi faster or the Viper?... Assuming that both cars are close to stock, the Viper wins. While the Viper is a "point and shoot" car it will never allow the Audi to get close. Given its weight, the Viper is a very good road racing car. We maintain 2 of them for customers. One dynos at 560HP to the wheels, the other 960 HP.  Of course the Audi. Power to weight ratio alone would give the huge advantage to the Audi. Depending upon the track configuration the AWD would also have the advantage. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 26, 2013 15:21:02 GMT
When my dad first got his pickup, we teased him about replacing his engine with a Viper engine. fact of the matter is, the only difference (replacing stock for stock) would have been giving up 2 ft/lb of torque.
but there's a tradeoff. once he was through the break-in period, he checked it against a camaro and narrowly lost - but he was carrying the weight of the camaro hanging off the hitch.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 27, 2013 7:13:15 GMT
TLW, I didnt understand that last sentence.... you lost me from "checked"?...
SR, Just for interest, what is that Audi in normal tune then?... (I dont get to drive Audi much, so I dont know that model..)
What do they both come out at in horses-per-ton...
Given the AWD, and the Audi Quatro system, I have this feeling that with the right driver, they will just blast any similar vehicle away, unless its been set up right....
(Unless its a Subrau Imprezza..... ;D )
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Post by c64 on Jan 27, 2013 16:48:29 GMT
TLW, I didnt understand that last sentence.... you lost me from "checked"?... SR, Just for interest, what is that Audi in normal tune then?... (I dont get to drive Audi much, so I dont know that model..) What do they both come out at in horses-per-ton... Given the AWD, and the Audi Quatro system, I have this feeling that with the right driver, they will just blast any similar vehicle away, unless its been set up right.... (Unless its a Subrau Imprezza..... ;D ) At least any vehicle in its public road configuration. Perfectly tuned for a given race track, a superior engine gives you a good advantage. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2013 16:56:06 GMT
TLW, I didnt understand that last sentence.... you lost me from "checked"?... SR, Just for interest, what is that Audi in normal tune then?... (I dont get to drive Audi much, so I dont know that model..) What do they both come out at in horses-per-ton... Given the AWD, and the Audi Quatro system, I have this feeling that with the right driver, they will just blast any similar vehicle away, unless its been set up right.... (Unless its a Subrau Imprezza..... ;D ) they raced out of a traffic light. kid with a new camaro, and him with 3/4 ton of plants in the back and 2½ ton of potting soil in the trailer. the camaro won. barely. |
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Post by srracing on Jan 28, 2013 3:04:07 GMT
SR, Just for interest, what is that Audi in normal tune then?... (I dont get to drive Audi much, so I dont know that model..) What do they both come out at in horses-per-ton... The last of the Audi 100's were 164 HP. The Vipers ran from 460 to 650 HP. The 100 was about 2500 lbs. the Viper about 3400. The Viper had a decent road handling suspension. The Audi was certainly more for comfort. The Audi was very fast in parking lots and malls with old ladies driving them with "unintended acceleration".. .. according to "60 Minutes" TV show  |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 28, 2013 7:50:07 GMT
Heh heh heh... dont you just love it when that happens?... I have a little "sport" I like to play when Solo.. (Bob-Tail in USA) This was something I picked up from an Instructor as well, so I suspect it may be something common for Solo drivers to do?... From 0-30, a 600bhp unit connected to all that rubber on the back axle, is going to take some beating away from the lights, especially if the driver is good at stirring the porridge on the gear stick....its only two cogs if you get it right.... You can scare several buckets out of what is good for the roses out of anything that isnt a sports to super-car up to 30 mph?.... At 30 mph its best to give a big grin and a waive from the cab and let them go, cos the engine pretty much runs out of grunt on the short cogs about then.... I have annoyed a LOT of scooby's and Evo's that have the look but not the grunt doing that.... And it dont half muck up the day for someone in a beamer. Edit, Additional, After Sabine Scmidt took a transit van round the Green Hell "in under ten", I am wondering what time I might get in a Volvo FH16 latest incarnation with 700 horses under the floor?... I aint expecting record times here, just for the hell of it... what an experience?... ;D ;D   Second run, I may just ask to take a flat-back trailer as well, just for fun?..... |
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Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2013 15:49:31 GMT
Heh heh heh... dont you just love it when that happens?... I have a little "sport" I like to play when Solo.. (Bob-Tail in USA) This was something I picked up from an Instructor as well, so I suspect it may be something common for Solo drivers to do?... From 0-30, a 600bhp unit connected to all that rubber on the back axle, is going to take some beating away from the lights, especially if the driver is good at stirring the porridge on the gear stick....its only two cogs if you get it right.... You can scare several buckets out of what is good for the roses out of anything that isnt a sports to super-car up to 30 mph?.... At 30 mph its best to give a big grin and a waive from the cab and let them go, cos the engine pretty much runs out of grunt on the short cogs about then.... I have annoyed a LOT of scooby's and Evo's that have the look but not the grunt doing that.... And it dont half muck up the day for someone in a beamer. Edit, Additional, After Sabine Scmidt took a transit van round the Green Hell "in under ten", I am wondering what time I might get in a Volvo FH16 latest incarnation with 700 horses under the floor?... I aint expecting record times here, just for the hell of it... what an experience?... ;D ;D Second run, I may just ask to take a flat-back trailer as well, just for fun?..... you mean something like this? |
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Post by c64 on Jan 28, 2013 16:51:15 GMT
SR, Just for interest, what is that Audi in normal tune then?... (I dont get to drive Audi much, so I dont know that model..) What do they both come out at in horses-per-ton... The last of the Audi 100's were 164 HP. The Vipers ran from 460 to 650 HP. Nobidy said that it would be an Audi 100 like your Grandpa would have bought. There was a wide variety of race engines available which fit nicely into the Audi 100 platform. MY favourite is the 2.14 liter 5-cylinder. Here'S an AUDI 80 using that engine: |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 29, 2013 7:23:40 GMT
Ok, so, forget engine transplants for a moment...
Standard tune, a modern Audi with the Quatro system is available, put that against a modern Viper (They still make them, yes?..) which would win now?...
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Post by srracing on Jan 29, 2013 16:32:17 GMT
Nobidy said that it would be an Audi 100 like your Grandpa would have bought. There was a wide variety of race engines available which fit nicely into the Audi 100 platform. Then your Audi 100 vs. Viper comparison made no sense whatever. If you are not talking about stock vehicles. By the same token the viper could have been a tube frame chassis and carbon fibre body, with dual turbos. So at 2400lbs and 900 HP how do you think it would have went? YOU said an Audi 100 and a Viper. The Audi 100 was under 165hp. If it had more, it was not an Audi 100. |
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Post by c64 on Jan 29, 2013 17:28:16 GMT
Ok, so, forget engine transplants for a moment... Standard tune, a modern Audi with the Quatro system is available, put that against a modern Viper (They still make them, yes?..) which would win now?... You can order an Audi with a racing engine, no need of a transplantation. Looking at the price for a viper, you can get a real neat Audi if you give them the same kind of money! |
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Post by srracing on Jan 29, 2013 22:48:07 GMT
Ok, so, forget engine transplants for a moment... Standard tune, a modern Audi with the Quatro system is available, put that against a modern Viper (They still make them, yes?..) which would win now?... Top Audi performer is the R8 5.2L at 525HP at 3600 lbs about $112,000. The new Viper is 640 HP at 3200 lbs. About $92,000. Depending upon the track this COULD be a decent match up. In the wet or dirt, edge to the Audi. On the dry I would say the Viper. But of course c64, will just say "put a bigger engine in the Audi"... and of course, like the Audi 100, there IS no bigger retail engine available from Audi. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 30, 2013 1:44:46 GMT
and the Datsun 1200 could beat them ALL off the line.
if you are not restricted to it being the car that the factory label goes with.
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Post by srracing on Jan 30, 2013 2:20:09 GMT
and the Datsun 1200 could beat them ALL off the line. if you are not restricted to it being the car that the factory label goes with. Exactly my point. We built a BMW Mini (2005) with a LS-1 motor at 460HP(RWD). Very fast, but I would not call it a BMW Mini anymore. We have also built a couple 180-210 HP VW Beetles. They easily beat most street cars. Again, it was hardly a VW Beetle. (Thank god.) The Beetle was the worst car ever produced IMO. It's $ to performance ratio was ok in the 50's and 60's. Beyond that it was one of the worst produced cars in modern history, but with the best marketing excellence. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 30, 2013 2:35:44 GMT
and the Datsun 1200 could beat them ALL off the line. if you are not restricted to it being the car that the factory label goes with. Exactly my point. We built a BMW Mini (2005) with a LS-1 motor at 460HP(RWD). Very fast, but I would not call it a BMW Mini anymore. We have also built a couple 180-210 HP VW Beetles. They easily beat most street cars. Again, it was hardly a VW Beetle. (Thank god.) The Beetle was the worst car ever produced IMO. It's $ to performance ratio was ok in the 50's and 60's. Beyond that it was one of the worst produced cars in modern history, but with the best marketing excellence. I remember hearing a story about a man who had transplanted a Porsche 911 drivetrain into a volkswagen beetle, producing a beetle that could go over 100 MPH. at which point he decided that going 100MPH in a volkswagen beetle was not that good an idea. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 30, 2013 7:49:01 GMT
... erm... no I didnt, I just took someone else's comparison and ran with it?... I "Drifted" the topic a little?.... I am now just drifting a little further afield, as it has been shown that in that particular comparison, the Audi is woefully underpowered?...
Back in the late 80's early 90's we built a (proper) Mini with an 1800 cc engine....
What you CAN put under the bonnet is often not sensible.
We then found out you could buy a sub-frame that fitted a 2ltr Injection Vauxhall calibre engine....
Still front wheel drive.
It was a beast.
Clocked at near 150 mph (Official police radar... he couldnt believe a Mini would go that fast...) it was ALSO bloody scarey .....
I would not drive that round the green hell due to it inability to keep in a straight line round corners... (Work that one out???...)
...it DID drift a LOT on tarmac until we put a couple of paving slabs in the boot for ballast.
It was sold as a "Sprint" racer eventually...
Our 1800cc mini, however, with a little bodywork, ballast and tuning, including Metro rolling kit and better suspension, turned out to be a pretty good rally car....
Porsche engines and VW's are a common mix, they do the transplant of Porsche into VW Camper vans on a regular basis, as the camper van engine was a complete slug anyway.
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