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Post by ironhold on Jan 19, 2014 2:51:32 GMT
Glass Crash, Traffic Plow:
30 - 40 MPH would represent the driver trying but failing to hit the brakes before impact. 50+ is, IMHO, a lot closer to the speeds at which the vehicle in the myth would be traveling, especially in a chase situation.
RPG Flip:
The clip that they showed to illustrate the cliche in movies shows the vehicle getting attacked from the side, followed by a large explosion coming from beneath the vehicle.
This raises two alternate possibilities to be tested:
*The vehicle is hit in the side with the RPG.
*The RPG hits the road beneath the vehicle and the shock wave is responsible for the flip.
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Post by the light works on Jan 19, 2014 5:01:42 GMT
glass crash: I NAILED it. some years back, we were doing a minor remodel in Mrs TLW's grooming shop, which consisted of splitting an 8 foot long counter into 2, 4 foot counters - including a glass countertop; which we found out the hard way was actually made from tempered glass. left some pretty good blood smears on a few things. also picked up a few nicks when I wrecked the truck a couple years back. therefore, I guessed that they would get a lot of tiny nicks from the tempered glass shrapnel.
RPG flip: I just have to comment on their aim on the in-motion test. they hit dead center on their target.
but yes, I agree that if they had done a third test with the RPG exploding under the vehicle, and closer to the side, it would have given them their final possibility.
traffic truck: I think with a little more refinement, they could be losing even less kinetic energy and getting even more rotation out of the cars. but that was a great one-shot design.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jan 20, 2014 16:19:43 GMT
Was it just me, or did one of the vehicles for RPG vs SUV have a target on its hood ... that wasn't aimed at. (All the SUVs got hit in the front grill.)
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Post by the light works on Jan 20, 2014 16:30:03 GMT
Was it just me, or did one of the vehicles for RPG vs SUV have a target on its hood ... that wasn't aimed at. (All the SUVs got hit in the front grill.) I thought I saw them painting a target on the hood of one. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 21, 2014 0:26:04 GMT
I'm the very proud stepdad of a 7 year old logical thinker  As Adam was prepping his blood dummies for the test, the little one goes: "Shouldn't they have clothes on? I think that would make a difference if you're hit by tiny bits of glass. If I was carrying some glass across a road, I sure wouldn't want to do it naked!" Maybe it wouldn't make much difference on the hands and face and maybe it wouldn't make any difference at all for larger pieces of glass, but with the tempered glass? I think the kid may have a point. Second thing. I noticed the movie clip of the RPG hitting under the car too, but it wouldn't make much difference. The RPG is an armor piercing grenade, which means it's not supposed to create a big explosion that goes everywhere. It's supposed to punch a hole in the armor and spray a large amount of molten copper and steal into the vehicle, effectively burning the occupants to death. If it hits the ground under the vehicle, all that energy will be directed into the ground and a very small amount will affect the vehicle, so it's a moot point. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 21, 2014 4:21:19 GMT
I'm the very proud stepdad of a 7 year old logical thinker As Adam was prepping his blood dummies for the test, the little one goes: "Shouldn't they have clothes on? I think that would make a difference if you're hit by tiny bits of glass. If I was carrying some glass across a road, I sure wouldn't want to do it naked!" Maybe it wouldn't make much difference on the hands and face and maybe it wouldn't make any difference at all for larger pieces of glass, but with the tempered glass? I think the kid may have a point. Second thing. I noticed the movie clip of the RPG hitting under the car too, but it wouldn't make much difference. The RPG is an armor piercing grenade, which means it's not supposed to create a big explosion that goes everywhere. It's supposed to punch a hole in the armor and spray a large amount of molten copper and steal into the vehicle, effectively burning the occupants to death. If it hits the ground under the vehicle, all that energy will be directed into the ground and a very small amount will affect the vehicle, so it's a moot point. kid's good - I completely missed that. This is true (about the RPG) - but it falls under the "leave no tern unstoned" clause. |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 21, 2014 5:50:38 GMT
So for the broken glass bit -
Retest all three impacts at 30 MPH with the "dummies" wrapped in a layer or three of canvas or denim to simulate a laborer's clothing from the period plus a retest of any glass that passes muster at a higher speed (say, 50 MPH) in order to determine if a higher speed will shatter more violently.
How does that all sound?
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Post by the light works on Jan 21, 2014 14:29:19 GMT
So for the broken glass bit - Retest all three impacts at 30 MPH with the "dummies" wrapped in a layer or three of canvas or denim to simulate a laborer's clothing from the period plus a retest of any glass that passes muster at a higher speed (say, 50 MPH) in order to determine if a higher speed will shatter more violently. How does that all sound? it sounds great - but also give the dummies the same weight and footprint as real people - because we are also testing their ability to remain standing. |
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jan 21, 2014 14:56:22 GMT
I don't know if a 50 MPH test is really necessary -- I was watching this with a friend yesterday (she'd DVR'd it), and she commented that for a gag primarily found in silent films 30 MPH would be a good speed. I know a stock Model T maxed out around 45 MPH, and I believe speed limits were lower at the time due to road conditions.
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Post by the light works on Jan 21, 2014 15:03:50 GMT
I don't know if a 50 MPH test is really necessary -- I was watching this with a friend yesterday (she'd DVR'd it), and she commented that for a gag primarily found in silent films 30 MPH would be a good speed. I know a stock Model T maxed out around 45 MPH, and I believe speed limits were lower at the time due to road conditions. actually speed limits were pretty much nonexistent - due to road conditions. a minor tangent for an anecdote: when the indian gaming center came to town, our weekend traffic went from bad to jammed. one of our locals declared that the reason why we couldn't go faster than 10MPH through town was because people were speeding and they should install photo radar to cite the culprits. my comment was they should install photo radar and ask people who got up to the speed limit how they managed it. |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 21, 2014 15:53:32 GMT
I don't know if a 50 MPH test is really necessary -- I was watching this with a friend yesterday (she'd DVR'd it), and she commented that for a gag primarily found in silent films 30 MPH would be a good speed. I know a stock Model T maxed out around 45 MPH, and I believe speed limits were lower at the time due to road conditions. In most of the instances in which a person would bust through glass in the first place, they're traveling at a high rate of speed, IE they're involved in a chase or are being careless. It'd be doubtful that they would be obliged to obey the speed limit under these circumstances. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 21, 2014 19:06:18 GMT
I don't know if a 50 MPH test is really necessary -- I was watching this with a friend yesterday (she'd DVR'd it), and she commented that for a gag primarily found in silent films 30 MPH would be a good speed. I know a stock Model T maxed out around 45 MPH, and I believe speed limits were lower at the time due to road conditions. In most of the instances in which a person would bust through glass in the first place, they're traveling at a high rate of speed, IE they're involved in a chase or are being careless. It'd be doubtful that they would be obliged to obey the speed limit under these circumstances. Still, you have to agree that the top speed of period cars should be considered. If period cars couldn't go any faster than 45 MPH, there's not really any point in testing higher speeds. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 22, 2014 1:00:52 GMT
In most of the instances in which a person would bust through glass in the first place, they're traveling at a high rate of speed, IE they're involved in a chase or are being careless. It'd be doubtful that they would be obliged to obey the speed limit under these circumstances. Still, you have to agree that the top speed of period cars should be considered. If period cars couldn't go any faster than 45 MPH, there's not really any point in testing higher speeds. keeping in mind that 45MPH assumed a good straightaway and a smooth road. |
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Post by breesfan on Jan 22, 2014 3:02:52 GMT
The car v. glass was more interested really and the truck mowing over the cars was more interesting too.
Not sure why but the build team myth was kinda boring but it was cool to see they flipped it over.
Its interesting about the glass and was surprised it didn't make any messes of the windshield.
The truck barreling through cars was pretty cool and I think a big truck can do that but not a SUV or a car.
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Post by the light works on Jan 22, 2014 3:08:09 GMT
The car v. glass was more interested really and the truck mowing over the cars was more interesting too. Not sure why but the build team myth was kinda boring but it was cool to see they flipped it over. Its interesting about the glass and was surprised it didn't make any messes of the windshield. The truck barreling through cars was pretty cool and I think a big truck can do that but not a SUV or a car. you must have missed that they put polycarbonate on the windshield to protect it (wasn't completely clear whether it was an overlay or a replacement windshield) |
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Post by breesfan on Jan 22, 2014 3:10:52 GMT
The car v. glass was more interested really and the truck mowing over the cars was more interesting too. Not sure why but the build team myth was kinda boring but it was cool to see they flipped it over. Its interesting about the glass and was surprised it didn't make any messes of the windshield. The truck barreling through cars was pretty cool and I think a big truck can do that but not a SUV or a car. you must have missed that they put polycarbonate on the windshield to protect it (wasn't completely clear whether it was an overlay or a replacement windshield) May have missed that part. I'm usually reading the closed captioning. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 22, 2014 3:13:43 GMT
you must have missed that they put polycarbonate on the windshield to protect it (wasn't completely clear whether it was an overlay or a replacement windshield) May have missed that part. I'm usually reading the closed captioning. Adam mentioned it once during the setup. maybe a 2 minute bit. |
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Jan 22, 2014 13:30:38 GMT
Car v Glass: I have to agree that clothing would have made a difference. Denim or heavy canvas seems appropriate. I believe Adam said the polycarbonate was over the windshield (as opposed to in place of).
SUV v RPG: The movie shot definitely showed the RPG being shot from the side of the SUV and making contact below the SUV. Not sure why they chose the head-on shot instead.
Truck v Traffic: Higher speed would translate to more ramming power. But, theoretically, the truck would be driving at city speed limits at the time of the collision, so 30 mph seem reasonable. If they tested it at highway speeds, the result would have been different (multiple occurances of trucks with bad brakes barreling through cars at toll plazas).
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Post by the light works on Jan 22, 2014 14:29:05 GMT
Car v Glass: I have to agree that clothing would have made a difference. Denim or heavy canvas seems appropriate. I believe Adam said the polycarbonate was over the windshield (as opposed to in place of). SUV v RPG: The movie shot definitely showed the RPG being shot from the side of the SUV and making contact below the SUV. Not sure why they chose the head-on shot instead. Truck v Traffic: Higher speed would translate to more ramming power. But, theoretically, the truck would be driving at city speed limits at the time of the collision, so 30 mph seem reasonable. If they tested it at highway speeds, the result would have been different (multiple occurances of trucks with bad brakes barreling through cars at toll plazas). the speed debate was in regards to the glass break. |
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Jan 22, 2014 14:35:27 GMT
the speed debate was in regards to the glass break. Gotcha. I would be in the camp that agrees that 30 mph was a reasonable speed for that test, being consistent with cars & roads of the era. Though, a higher speed would result in a more energenic collision with the glass and a larger debris field. Then again, another 'what if...' to add to this scenario would be potential injury to the driver of the car. In some of those old movies, the car is an open top Model T (or similar). Wouldn't the driver be harmed as a result of the open top? I can see an RC'd convertible with Buster (or some other analog) at the wheel to test this. |
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