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Post by the light works on Aug 11, 2014 3:00:26 GMT
I say do it while riding a stationary bike rather than a car. (I'd say a bicycle, but that may or may not meet safety requirements) It's no longer plausible for delivery people in most towns to run a route on a bike. We're talking motorcycles with sidecars at the least. I myself travel 30+ miles each night, not counting the distance from my house to the office or from the last house home. Plus, cars introduce the variable of having to work with a narrow opening instead of a wide space. I am sure the average age of the modern paperboy is significantly above 10 years, too...
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 11, 2014 8:21:35 GMT
We are talking about kids delivering papers here, not delivery people in general. We are also talking about trying to make sure that the kids themselves can do or at least play a major part in the testing.
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Post by the light works on Aug 11, 2014 14:13:11 GMT
We are talking about kids delivering papers here, not delivery people in general. We are also talking about trying to make sure that the kids themselves can do or at least play a major part in the testing. right, which is why I feel the bicycle would be better than the car.
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Post by ironhold on Aug 16, 2014 2:53:28 GMT
If we do go with a bike for the newspaper toss -
I think we should have the kids ride "stationary" bikes, like exercise bikes, in order to eliminate any variables concerning the ability of the involved kids to ride a real bike.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 16, 2014 8:05:45 GMT
Kids who ride bikes and throw papers have more experience at it than those that dont.... I am having to work with this because in UK, finding your newspaper on the front lawn is grounds for a right royal shoutie WTF?.... If we pay to have them delivered, its through the letterbox on the front door, thats what we are paying for, delivery to the house.
Anyway, I know your lot prefer to wrap it in a paper or plastic bag and chuck it where the dog can pee on it.....
Now you are asking that the Kid do a "Simulated" bike ride to test chucking a paper... No. Just how apart from reality do you got to get?... The kid you need is a kid who actually does that on a daily basis. They will know how to either roll or fold a paper as well. THEY are the ones you need to test, the ones who do the job..... Experience counts, the fastest way to do a job is with someone who avctualy does that job?...
If you cant find kids that can ride a bike and throw a newspaper at the same time, you have the wrong kids....
That like trying to test judgement of reversing onto a loading bay by asking for people who have never driven before?....
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Post by the light works on Aug 16, 2014 8:07:55 GMT
If we do go with a bike for the newspaper toss - I think we should have the kids ride "stationary" bikes, like exercise bikes, in order to eliminate any variables concerning the ability of the involved kids to ride a real bike. that and to prevent injury from running onto Tory. (you know he's going to be the one who gets hit)
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Post by the light works on Aug 16, 2014 8:10:24 GMT
Kids who ride bikes and throw papers have more experience at it than those that dont.... I am having to work with this because in UK, finding your newspaper on the front lawn is grounds for a right royal shoutie WTF?.... If we pay to have them delivered, its through the letterbox on the front door, thats what we are paying for, delivery to the house. Anyway, I know your lot prefer to wrap it in a paper or plastic bag and chuck it where the dog can pee on it..... Now you are asking that the Kid do a "Simulated" bike ride to test chucking a paper... No. Just how apart from reality do you got to get?... The kid you need is a kid who actually does that on a daily basis. They will know how to either roll or fold a paper as well. THEY are the ones you need to test, the ones who do the job..... Experience counts, the fastest way to do a job is with someone who avctualy does that job?... If you cant find kids that can ride a bike and throw a newspaper at the same time, you have the wrong kids.... That like trying to test judgement of reversing onto a loading bay by asking for people who have never driven before?.... and in my neck of the woods, there are newspaper boxes next to the mailboxes, out by the road... the point of it is something the kids can do that we can tell them, "this is what kids used to do to earn pocket money, now you can experience it for yourself)
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Post by ironhold on Aug 16, 2014 20:17:57 GMT
Kids who ride bikes and throw papers have more experience at it than those that dont.... I am having to work with this because in UK, finding your newspaper on the front lawn is grounds for a right royal shoutie WTF?.... If we pay to have them delivered, its through the letterbox on the front door, thats what we are paying for, delivery to the house. Anyway, I know your lot prefer to wrap it in a paper or plastic bag and chuck it where the dog can pee on it..... Now you are asking that the Kid do a "Simulated" bike ride to test chucking a paper... No. Just how apart from reality do you got to get?... The kid you need is a kid who actually does that on a daily basis. They will know how to either roll or fold a paper as well. THEY are the ones you need to test, the ones who do the job..... Experience counts, the fastest way to do a job is with someone who avctualy does that job?... If you cant find kids that can ride a bike and throw a newspaper at the same time, you have the wrong kids.... That like trying to test judgement of reversing onto a loading bay by asking for people who have never driven before?.... Does your courier know that you want your paper delivered in a specific spot? If not, then notify the newspaper and ask them to inform the courier. I would estimate that at least a good third of the subscribers on my route have special requests concerning where they want their newspaper. Some of my customers are elderly and so want it on their front porch. Others specifically want it in their newspaper boxes. A local church wants it by a specific set of doors. Et cetra. If I know ahead of time that a person wants their paper in a specific spot, then I'll place the paper there. Otherwise, I'll presume "no preference" and toss as best I can. I do try to land the paper on or near the driveway, but I cannot always get a precise toss due to obstructions.
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 16, 2014 20:24:29 GMT
Kids who ride bikes and throw papers have more experience at it than those that dont.... I am having to work with this because in UK, finding your newspaper on the front lawn is grounds for a right royal shoutie WTF?.... If we pay to have them delivered, its through the letterbox on the front door, thats what we are paying for, delivery to the house. Anyway, I know your lot prefer to wrap it in a paper or plastic bag and chuck it where the dog can pee on it..... Now you are asking that the Kid do a "Simulated" bike ride to test chucking a paper... No. Just how apart from reality do you got to get?... The kid you need is a kid who actually does that on a daily basis. They will know how to either roll or fold a paper as well. THEY are the ones you need to test, the ones who do the job..... Experience counts, the fastest way to do a job is with someone who avctualy does that job?... If you cant find kids that can ride a bike and throw a newspaper at the same time, you have the wrong kids.... That like trying to test judgement of reversing onto a loading bay by asking for people who have never driven before?.... Does your courier know that you want your paper delivered in a specific spot? If not, then notify the newspaper and ask them to inform the courier. I would estimate that at least a good third of the subscribers on my route have special requests concerning where they want their newspaper. Some of my customers are elderly and so want it on their front porch. Others specifically want it in their newspaper boxes. A local church wants it by a specific set of doors. Et cetra. If I know ahead of time that a person wants their paper in a specific spot, then I'll place the paper there. Otherwise, I'll presume "no preference" and toss as best I can. I do try to land the paper on or near the driveway, but I cannot always get a precise toss due to obstructions. Throwing the newspaper onto subscribers' properties is (as far as I know) pretty much only done in America. In most other countries the standard is to deliver it to the mailbox or mail slot in the door.
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Post by ironhold on Aug 16, 2014 20:25:04 GMT
If we do go with a bike for the newspaper toss - I think we should have the kids ride "stationary" bikes, like exercise bikes, in order to eliminate any variables concerning the ability of the involved kids to ride a real bike. that and to prevent injury from running onto Tory. (you know he's going to be the one who gets hit) Plus, we may have kids who are physically incapable of riding a bike for whatever reason.
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Post by the light works on Aug 16, 2014 20:31:56 GMT
that and to prevent injury from running onto Tory. (you know he's going to be the one who gets hit) Plus, we may have kids who are physically incapable of riding a bike for whatever reason. this is true.
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 16, 2014 20:35:09 GMT
that and to prevent injury from running onto Tory. (you know he's going to be the one who gets hit) Plus, we may have kids who are physically incapable of riding a bike for whatever reason. Plus we're testing aerodynamics of the paper, not the kid on the bike. The basis of testing anything in a scientific way and coming up with a viable result is to remove any and all variables that may have adverse effects on what's actually being tested. In this case, we're not looking to test anything related to riding a bike, but to throwing a newspaper from a bike. Whether the bike is moving or not isn't all that important in getting the test right, but may be very important in getting it wrong.
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 16, 2014 23:09:06 GMT
Does your courier know that you want your paper delivered in a specific spot? If not, then notify the newspaper and ask them to inform the courier. I would estimate that at least a good third of the subscribers on my route have special requests concerning where they want their newspaper. Some of my customers are elderly and so want it on their front porch. Others specifically want it in their newspaper boxes. A local church wants it by a specific set of doors. Et cetra. If I know ahead of time that a person wants their paper in a specific spot, then I'll place the paper there. Otherwise, I'll presume "no preference" and toss as best I can. I do try to land the paper on or near the driveway, but I cannot always get a precise toss due to obstructions. Throwing the newspaper onto subscribers' properties is (as far as I know) pretty much only done in America. In most other countries the standard is to deliver it to the mailbox or mail slot in the door. In the UK papers are not thrown, since they are not wrapped in plastic but delivered as they arrive at the newsagents - the exception being some Sunday newspapers. (Which no kid is going to be throwing unless they want to dislocate their shoulder.) Because of this papers are delivered through the door (using the letter box is preferred, as customers tend to object to you putting holes in their front door). Occasionally you may get people requesting papers being left somewhere else, or with the weekend papers that are far to large to fit through a letter box you might leave the papers in a sheltered area near the door after putting one of the supplements.
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Post by the light works on Aug 17, 2014 10:06:19 GMT
Throwing the newspaper onto subscribers' properties is (as far as I know) pretty much only done in America. In most other countries the standard is to deliver it to the mailbox or mail slot in the door. In the UK papers are not thrown, since they are not wrapped in plastic but delivered as they arrive at the newsagents - the exception being some Sunday newspapers. (Which no kid is going to be throwing unless they want to dislocate their shoulder.) Because of this papers are delivered through the door (using the letter box is preferred, as customers tend to object to you putting holes in their front door). Occasionally you may get people requesting papers being left somewhere else, or with the weekend papers that are far to large to fit through a letter box you might leave the papers in a sheltered area near the door after putting one of the supplements. you just gave me a mental image of young Clark Kent on his childhood paper route. (dang it, no "eek" emoticon.)
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Post by the light works on Aug 17, 2014 10:08:18 GMT
our classic cultural image is a preteen kid riding his bicycle through the neighborhood flinging papers towards the front porch and missing.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 17, 2014 11:28:20 GMT
cultural difference... in UK, we expect it to be posted through the door no questions asked... We pay for delivery, we expect delivery, and thats posted through the letterbox. Not in a soggy mulch in the deepest puddle on the front lawn.
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Post by mrfatso on Aug 17, 2014 12:33:07 GMT
Even if it means avoiding dogs, or large flocks of geese, no small task there is a reason the Romans had guard geese, to do so, but I wonder if UK paperrounds and US paper routes are the same size, or distance? We tend to have multiple Newsagents shops competing in overlapping neighbourhoods, selling each of the various papers Sun, Mail, Times etc rather than deliveries organised By the newspaper themselves, unless it is the local paper.
That is another consideration, we used to have to make sure we put the correct paper in the correct door, not just fire out wrapped bags all containing the same paper.
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 17, 2014 15:02:06 GMT
Speaking from experience the distance and size of any individual route varies depending on a number of factors, such as the type of housing/nature of the area as well as the number and types of paper being delivered. I used to do two routes, one was a fairly flat area filled with terraced houses set close together who's owners tended to get a single tabloid paper (usually the Mail or Express). The total distance would have been just under two miles walked for some 40 papers which could be done in a single forty minute to an hours trip on a weekday. At weekends the same route took over an hour and required I go back to the shop, as the papers were physically larger and heavier and many houses ordered at least two - meaning that I could not physically fit 40 odd deliveries in a single bag.
I delivered evening papers on the same route, which owing to the smaller size of the papers had some 50 houses spread over a slightly larger area, but which only took another ten to twenty minutes to finish - Much depended on how active I felt like being.
The second route only had some 30 deliveries, but was up a hill and the owners ordered bigger papers (Times, Guardian or Independent). These houses tended to be detached houses with large gardens - I'd have needed a mortar to get a paper from the gate to anywhere near the front door. And several of these houses also had trees lining the stone wall. Total distance would have been two to three miles - it varied as there were a couple of outlying houses that didn't order papers every day - and took at least an hour. Sunday deliveries were a nightmare on that route, because not only were the papers ordered larger but most of the houses ordered at least two of the broadsheets, and one house ordered every single Sunday paper - which filled the bag to the point that it was impossible to carry anything else. On Sundays it usually took two hours, and three returns or resupplies, to finish that route.
Hell, it used to take the better part of an hour just to sort the papers for that route out. Asking us to wrap the papers up would have been totally impractical unless people were willing to wait until midday to get their morning papers.
The image of newspaper deliveries in the US is one of the kid riding along housing estates throwing fairly small papers onto lawns - tabloids rather than broadsheets. I seriously suspect that throwing something like the New York Times would not be practical for a kid, especially not the Sunday version. I'd go with evening papers, or at least tabloid sized papers, for testing. From the production viewpoint local SF papers would be the easiest to obtain, as they might be able to get a truck full of papers from the day before.
That or MB could get a collection of the most common newspapers delivered to peoples doors (at least in SF) and work out the average size and weight, and then pick the paper that best fits that range so they can test using 'average' papers. They could add in the smallest and lightest and thickest and heaviest papers as well. Although this might be adding a bit to much to the testing to be practical, due to time constraints and how long they can legally work with the kids in a given day.
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Post by ironhold on Aug 17, 2014 20:53:15 GMT
I can honestly say that the situation varies widely here in the US.
We currently have four routes for newspapers at my place.
One courier has 100% residential, I've got 90% residential, and the other two couriers have an even split between residential and rural. As you can imagine, the sizes of the routes are about the same, but the number of houses we each serve varies widely.
Additionally, the town where I live is a "bedroom" community and so we have a high percentage of older residents. Many of these residents are disabled, and so we have special orders to place their newspapers in specific spots each night. This means we have to get out of our vehicles throughout the evening, and so it ups our time accordingly.
Your average US paper (at least those that I've seen) are broadsheets and larger. I've only seen one newspaper print at tabloid size; said paper has a questionably competent and penny-pinching owner / editor, and so the decision to print at tabloid size instead of broadsheet may have been made for any number of reasons.*
Papers at the place I work for vary in thickness depending upon the number of inserts we have in a given night, with the ability to roll or fold them varying in difficulty based on the number and type of inserts used. Inserts printed on newsprint or glossy paper are not much of an issue, but inserts printed on stock or thicker are a pain to deal with because they do not want to bend. I can roll the thinner papers (1 - 2 inserts) into something about the same diameter as a quarter, but the thicker the paper the thicker the resulting roll... and this is assuming I can maintain a tight roll, as if the bags are too big then even a slight hole will allow air inside and so give the paper room to expand back out, in which case all bets are off concerning how big they become.
*Suffice to say that the paper in question was founded out of spite and its very existence is only so that it can pull subscribers away from another local publication. The only upside to its existence is that little ol' Copperas Cove, Texas is now one of the few places in the entire nation with three competing papers of any stripe.
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Post by ironhold on Aug 17, 2014 20:58:03 GMT
Even if it means avoiding dogs, or large flocks of geese, no small task there is a reason the Romans had guard geese, to do so, but I wonder if UK paperrounds and US paper routes are the same size, or distance? We tend to have multiple Newsagents shops competing in overlapping neighbourhoods, selling each of the various papers Sun, Mail, Times etc rather than deliveries organised By the newspaper themselves, unless it is the local paper. That is another consideration, we used to have to make sure we put the correct paper in the correct door, not just fire out wrapped bags all containing the same paper. Here in the US it's far more common for each individual newspaper to maintain its own cadre of delivery workers. Individual workers may deliver for multiple papers each night, but from what I've seen it's rare for papers from multiple independent publications to go through the same delivery staff.* There was a situation in which a regional daily contracted with a local daily to have the local's couriers handle everything, but that was a mess & a half and so the contract was never renewed. *However, if we have a situation in which multiple papers are owned by the same entity, then it would only make sense for them to be handled by the same set of people for at least part of the distribution chain.
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