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Post by c64 on Sept 23, 2014 17:46:25 GMT
Another good reason not to use a cell phone while pumping gas. What other good reason is there? Good being defined as not busted by the MB's Distraction. Even without people do the most stupidest things at gas stations. E.g. forget to pay or spilling gas.
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Post by c64 on Sept 23, 2014 17:57:48 GMT
C64; Do you have any links for the claim about cell phones affecting scales? A link from the federal bureau of measurements and standards: www.lbme.nrw.de/presse/netzzeitung_waagen_2_07.11.06.pdfAnd the gauging office district Hessen with a link to an article linking to one of their papers they had published in an expert magazine: www.eichamt.hessen.de/irj/HED_Internet?rid=HMWVL_15/HED_Internet/nav/b1d/b1d40a28-a31a-9621-f012-f31e2389e481,f55602b0-8ca2-6821-f012-f31e2389e481,,,11111111-2222-3333-4444-100000005002%26_ic_seluCon=f55602b0-8ca2-6821-f012-f31e2389e481%26shownav=false.htm&uid=b1d40a28-a31a-9621-f012-f31e2389e481&shownav=false In case the long link won't work: tinyurl.com/pakdum2Also I was personally involved in an investigation of an EMI case where a microwave oven tampered with the scales of an industrial food processing machine. I wonder if they had experienced the same problem with Wifi which was barely invented back then so unheard of by the public. I am not familiar with the gas pumps the gas stations use but I have worked on gas pumps for large companies. But I think while they look totally different, they should have the same guts as the public used pumps. The scale + cell effect is something you can actually do at home. Maybe the Mythbusters could ask their audience for data. Just put a cell phone onto an electronic kitchen scale when off and when "talking". Frankly, I don't own a suitable electronic scale. Either the cell is way too light or way too heavy. All scales with the correct range I own are mechanical.
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Post by c64 on Sept 23, 2014 18:01:25 GMT
The long link won't work, TinyURL does!
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Post by c64 on Sept 23, 2014 18:04:48 GMT
it makes you look like a tool? especially if your conversation is more important than the fact that your pump clicked off 10 minutes ago? I know cell phones can't ignite gas vapors as static discharge has been shown to do, but what about a lit cigarette? I've seen a number of people, usually women for some reason, filling up while puffing on a cigarette. Even holding it in the same hand as the gas nozzle while taking it out of the car. I can't imagine someone being that stupid but they are. I even asked one woman that was filling up next to me to please put out the cigarette. All she did was call me an unrepeatable name and kept right on puffing. Well, that's easy. Just hit the "Panik buzzer", the emergency pump shutdown button. Great show, I did that once. Just claim that you have feared for your life and the video footage of the station does the rest. The cigarette must have been the most expensive piece of smokeware this man ever had.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 24, 2014 6:47:35 GMT
There is a thing in UK called Customs and Excise, the Govt. Legal department who deal with Weights and Measures, (AKA Weight-Watchers...?...) and Police.
When it comes to measured Gallons, they are the only people legally allowed to "Investigate" Petrol stations for how much short they are selling.... The legal standpoint is you are allowed to over-dispense, but not under-dispense, same as Buses are allowed to run late but NEVER leave early from a timed stop, there are legal requirements, if you suspect breaking of the law, you MUST contact police. If you start taking measures into your own hands, you become Vigilante, and in the case of Customs and Excise, thats breaking the law. You MUST contact authorities who will be immediately on the case as they do not like vigilante action....
In Many pubs, if you ask for a glass of wine and the measure states 125cl, you will probably get 126 to 130 cl, as again, under dispensing is against the law. The only legal under measure is the royal Pint. The Pint is a measure of one pint including Head.... The foamy bit at the top is included in the measure of the pint, however, there are legal measures of how tall that can be, in the case of Guinness, its 11mm max.
Now, we have already on these boards discussed the probability of Temperature affecting the volume of gas, in that the myth was its better to draw Petrol in the morning rather than at night.... so, there is an already possible variance in the amount of petrol per 100ml dependant on weight.... I will come back to this at the end of my post.
So, Weights and Measures inspectors dispense a measured gallon of fuel and measure it right there and then. (It then gets pored back into the tank...) If you take a gallon dispensed into a petrol tank take it away 10 mile and measure it, if you transported it in a container that was hot/cold/in a hot/cold boot, ya think the volume may change?...
Plus what are you using to measure it with?... Weights and Measures use a calibrated gallon. Is your calibrated?... in the same way Weights and Measures calibrate?...
Its a legal minefield, and if you do catch a petrol station breaking the law by under dispensing, withholding that information is illegal, "Harbouring a criminal", you may be actually liable for charges if you do not report it immediately.
I am not expecting to be 100% accurate on all current legislation, I do not hold a Licence for any individual public house at this time, and I have let my ADR dangerous goods licence lapse, but above are a few pointers on law that were in place recently.(As in the time of posting?..) (If you are watching this on the repeat on Dave, it may have changed, we may all be dead, or Dara O'Brien and Stephen Fry may run the country...) (You may need to be a resident of UK and have that channel, and have watched QI, Mock the Week, and Have I got news for You to get that?...)
Right, I said I would return to pumping petrol in the morning. If its a cold day, the pump will be cold, its a physical measure, by Metallic components, that will shrink when cold, and shrink to the same temp as the liquid... So the colder it is, the "smaller" the aperture measuring your cc of petrol..... thus less volume..... So I am suggesting that measuring Petrol on a COLD day will get you LESS petrol..... I dont know how accurate that is, but it kinda makes sense thinking it through.
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Post by the light works on Sept 24, 2014 13:48:15 GMT
interesting thought. here, you can buy the calibrating measures at the gas station supply house - because the station owner needs one to recalibrate if his pumps are out of compliance.
but still - as we both say, it is the authorities (here, it id the department of weights and measures) who can do it without the station owner's permission. you may well find a station owner who is happy to offer permission to test the temperature variance, though. and as I said - you can buy used gas pumps.
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Post by c64 on Sept 27, 2014 13:37:52 GMT
Air pumps, ££ paid-for coin operated ones. Anyone yet managed to get all round and do all four corners on your 20p?.. or whatever coin it takes where you are....?.. I suspect a conspiracy to steal an extra 20p, as you cant just check three tyres can you?... Someone has timed the average it takes to do 4 tyres and subtracted a quarter of that on the time allotted to 20p. In Germany, most fuel stations offer air for free. Not that long ago, all fuel stations offered free air, now more and more automatic pumps with coin slot appear. What's really annoying are the vacuum cleaners. You'll never know if they properly work before you insert at least 50 cents and then they often shut down before you have managed to clean a quarter of your car. Also those car wash boxes tend to rip you off. Before you notice, you had dropped in more money than just buying a ticket for a fully automatic car wash. And the machine which changes your money gives you the correct coins for the car wash but not for the vacuum cleaner. Usually the car wash box takes €1 coins and the vacuum cleaner 50 cent coins. The vacuum cleaner also accepts €1 coins, too but won't give you more time nor your money back.
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Post by c64 on Sept 27, 2014 13:46:10 GMT
Right, I said I would return to pumping petrol in the morning. If its a cold day, the pump will be cold, its a physical measure, by Metallic components, that will shrink when cold, and shrink to the same temp as the liquid... So the colder it is, the "smaller" the aperture measuring your cc of petrol..... thus less volume..... So I am suggesting that measuring Petrol on a COLD day will get you LESS petrol..... I dont know how accurate that is, but it kinda makes sense thinking it through. In all (EU) countries I have been with my car, the gas pumps were always temperature compensated and measured the volume as if at room temperature. So actually you get more gas volume when it's hot.
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Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 13:47:08 GMT
Air pumps, ££ paid-for coin operated ones. Anyone yet managed to get all round and do all four corners on your 20p?.. or whatever coin it takes where you are....?.. I suspect a conspiracy to steal an extra 20p, as you cant just check three tyres can you?... Someone has timed the average it takes to do 4 tyres and subtracted a quarter of that on the time allotted to 20p. In Germany, most fuel stations offer air for free. Not that long ago, all fuel stations offered free air, now more and more automatic pumps with coin slot appear. What's really annoying are the vacuum cleaners. You'll never know if they properly work before you insert at least 50 cents and then they often shut down before you have managed to clean a quarter of your car. Also those car wash boxes tend to rip you off. Before you notice, you had dropped in more money than just buying a ticket for a fully automatic car wash. And the machine which changes your money gives you the correct coins for the car wash but not for the vacuum cleaner. Usually the car wash box takes €1 coins and the vacuum cleaner 50 cent coins. The vacuum cleaner also accepts €1 coins, too but won't give you more time nor your money back. the only limitation in our wash is that the vacuums take quarters (25 cents) while the automatic wash gives dollar coins in change. all our other pay stations accept all bills, and the automatic accepts credit cards. - but none of the do it yourself bays give change. the change machine gives quarters, which are accepted at all machines. maybe if we ever have to replace the machine, I will push to get one that also changes dollar coins. (it doesn't do so right now)
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Post by c64 on Sept 27, 2014 17:44:56 GMT
In Germany, most fuel stations offer air for free. Not that long ago, all fuel stations offered free air, now more and more automatic pumps with coin slot appear. What's really annoying are the vacuum cleaners. You'll never know if they properly work before you insert at least 50 cents and then they often shut down before you have managed to clean a quarter of your car. Also those car wash boxes tend to rip you off. Before you notice, you had dropped in more money than just buying a ticket for a fully automatic car wash. And the machine which changes your money gives you the correct coins for the car wash but not for the vacuum cleaner. Usually the car wash box takes €1 coins and the vacuum cleaner 50 cent coins. The vacuum cleaner also accepts €1 coins, too but won't give you more time nor your money back. the only limitation in our wash is that the vacuums take quarters (25 cents) while the automatic wash gives dollar coins in change. all our other pay stations accept all bills, and the automatic accepts credit cards. - but none of the do it yourself bays give change. the change machine gives quarters, which are accepted at all machines. maybe if we ever have to replace the machine, I will push to get one that also changes dollar coins. (it doesn't do so right now) How much do you charge for the timer of the tap dispensing 1/2 small bucket of warm water?
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Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 21:10:02 GMT
the only limitation in our wash is that the vacuums take quarters (25 cents) while the automatic wash gives dollar coins in change. all our other pay stations accept all bills, and the automatic accepts credit cards. - but none of the do it yourself bays give change. the change machine gives quarters, which are accepted at all machines. maybe if we ever have to replace the machine, I will push to get one that also changes dollar coins. (it doesn't do so right now) How much do you charge for the timer of the tap dispensing 1/2 small bucket of warm water? we have all the taps locked. people were bringing buckets and filling them to wash their car from the bucket - and many were not using coin operated services at all. I forget the exact rate, but it is x dollars for x minutes, with, if I recall right, additional time added per additional coin. (which means if it is 4 minutes, and it is going to take you 5 minutes to wash your car, as long as you pay before the time runs out, you don't have to waste 3 minutes)
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Post by c64 on Sept 27, 2014 21:13:37 GMT
How much do you charge for the timer of the tap dispensing 1/2 small bucket of warm water? we have all the taps locked. people were bringing buckets and filling them to wash their car from the bucket - That's why they are on timer around here. You pay a lot for a little bit of warm water.
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Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 21:50:15 GMT
we have all the taps locked. people were bringing buckets and filling them to wash their car from the bucket - That's why they are on timer around here. You pay a lot for a little bit of warm water. people who think car washes inherently make a lot of money, have not seen their utility bills - or the price tag on their equipment. I understand why so many car washes are in poor condition.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 28, 2014 8:55:50 GMT
I have the reason... they finally lost patience when a van turned up and the owner starts pumping up his family collection of pool toys. People miss-used the "Free Air", I have heard rumours that some people even tried filling scuba tanks....
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Post by c64 on Sept 28, 2014 9:59:55 GMT
I have the reason... they finally lost patience when a van turned up and the owner starts pumping up his family collection of pool toys. People miss-used the "Free Air", I have heard rumours that some people even tried filling scuba tanks.... This doesn't really work with the gas station pumps anyway. The classic portable tanks contain not much air, when someone else had used it, there often isn't enough pressure left to check all of your tires and you need to recharge it which takes about 5 minutes. A totally flat spare tire will also exhaust the portable tank and you need to recharge at least once. And the fully automatic pumps won't give you any air if there is no pressure present. To inflate a flat tire, you need to connect the hose and then hold the buttons on the pump for a small rush of air to initialize pumping. If there is still no back pressure, it takes a while until the pump tries again when you keep pressing the buttons.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 28, 2014 10:05:57 GMT
The checking for back pressure was introduced after "Small boys" used to jam open the valve and run away thinking it would cause the compressor to blow up.
Now you need a manual override to keep the pump on if you have a truly flat tyre.
It is a case of tombstone technology... for years, the free air was a target for vandals.
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Post by c64 on Sept 28, 2014 11:11:33 GMT
The checking for back pressure was introduced after "Small boys" used to jam open the valve and run away thinking it would cause the compressor to blow up. Now you need a manual override to keep the pump on if you have a truly flat tyre. It is a case of tombstone technology... for years, the free air was a target for vandals. I like the portable tanks. Very convenient and reliable. The problem is that they became stolen too often.
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Post by the light works on Sept 28, 2014 13:50:00 GMT
I have the reason... they finally lost patience when a van turned up and the owner starts pumping up his family collection of pool toys. People miss-used the "Free Air", I have heard rumours that some people even tried filling scuba tanks.... well, THAT ain't gonna work. I forget the pressure SCUBA tanks "inflate" to, but our SCBA tanks go into low air alarm at about 250PSI.
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Post by c64 on Sept 28, 2014 20:29:38 GMT
I have the reason... they finally lost patience when a van turned up and the owner starts pumping up his family collection of pool toys. People miss-used the "Free Air", I have heard rumours that some people even tried filling scuba tanks.... well, THAT ain't gonna work. I forget the pressure SCUBA tanks "inflate" to, but our SCBA tanks go into low air alarm at about 250PSI. Not even the pumps for trucks come even close. Usually the maximum pressure of a common pneumatic system is 8 bar, 250PSI is somewhere around 18 bar! Rule of thumb, a large scuba tank gives you roughly one good inhale per bar. So using a fuel station compressor will give you a minute or two of diving time at best.
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Post by c64 on Sept 28, 2014 20:34:52 GMT
Oh, and by the way, the air of a fuel station isn't "dry" at all. It contains lots of water and some oil. Not really healthy to breath.
Also you never know where the compressor draws its air from. It could contain gasoline fumes or exhaust fumes from vehicles waiting near the air intake of the compressor with a running engine. Lots of divers have died from carbon monoxide poisoning because their tanks were filled with polluted air, either from a diesel powered compressor itself or a nearby generator or vehicle.
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