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Post by the light works on Nov 21, 2016 3:53:00 GMT
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 21, 2016 8:11:45 GMT
You will never warp space.
Bloody hell, that is a strong statement....
But I believe in the truth, and the truth is, you just cant do that.
It doesnt matter how much you can sci-fi your way into being able to change the local laws of physics, whatever you try, you are here, and there is there, if there is a lot of "nothing" in-between, how do you do that?...
If I wish to fold a sheet of paper, what is step One?.
Step one, the obvious, get a piece of paper.
Space is "Nothing" except a few stray particles of many things but mostly Hydrogen and Water-Ice-Frozen-Gas-Dust if you are lucky with a lot of radiation from a very hostile environment that is the furnace of the stars nursery in the galaxies to the outer regions between.
How the HELL do you fold "Nothing".
Gravity is a field that we know very little about other than its a form of magnetism of all matter.
Its the bit that pulls everything towards each other.
You wanna "Fold" that before you even truly know how it works or why?.
Light is on the electro-magnetic-frequency.
Introducing a HIGH energy electrical charge into the general area, distorts light travelling through it?...
No Shirt Sherlock?...
A Lightening bolt CREATES Light.
"That we know"
Look, its like this, if you have a jet-blast from a fighter jet pointing at a target that measures the thrust at 100 yds back from the engine... if you introduce another source of propulsion, be that the wash from a rotor blade or another jet engine, at say 45 degree to the original blast, what do you think will happen?...
Will there be some distortion on the general combined angle of thrust?..
So, if you have a laser light shining at a target, and introduce a plasma-inducing high energy source of electromagnetic "Interference" from a high energy source, and the light from the laser slightly changes direction.... erm?... so what?..
Everyone knows the basic principal of creating holograms, its the bit where two light sources "Collide" in mid air...
Is this proof enough that the light from one source may "Interfere" with the light from another source?..
Has anyone tried measuring at a distance how the light is affected should one laser be pointed to interfere with another one?.. and done that at a high energy level?.. as in "At source" of the light?..
Loki provided a link, from that, may I take an example of an idea....
Take this "possibility" that there was a HUGE source of energy in the "Explosion" that was high energy making Plasma out of the very air it passed through, and that in turn created a LOT of thrust "Outwards" away from the storm.
Combine "many" strikes, and sure as hell, the very air you are travelling through "Expands outwards".
This is not a "warp" of time and space, this is merely travelling through an explosion field and finding you have been diverted off your intended path.
Postulation...
Try this.
Set up an experiment and fire a rifle aimed at a target 500yds down the field.
Do a few shots to get the sights in, and give it to someone who can hit the 10 ring on a regular basis.
Do that from a bunker... it will become obvious why.... make it also a very BIG target, and have a slo-mo camera running ...
Take another 5 shots at that target that you have already perforated, but this time, at 250 yards, have a carefully timed half-pound of c4 explode as the bullet flies past.
May I ask at this point, what are you expecting the results to be?.
If the bullet is not deflected at all, may I ask why Snipers are trained to allow for Windage?..
The pilots in the above quote did not therefore experience anything OTHER than a massive expansion of "Air" created by a lightning bolt.
Could you use that as propulsion?...
Oh yeah, you could...
But...
Recreating a lightning bolt of that magnitude requires a whole power-plant of supplying a city electricity generator size.
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 21, 2016 14:45:37 GMT
those pesky laws of thermodynamics have got to be getting in the way, somewhere in the process. no problem. nope is going to repeal and replace them. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 21, 2016 15:06:20 GMT
You will never warp space. Bloody hell, that is a strong statement.... But I believe in the truth, and the truth is, you just cant do that. It doesnt matter how much you can sci-fi your way into being able to change the local laws of physics, whatever you try, you are here, and there is there, if there is a lot of "nothing" in-between, how do you do that?... If I wish to fold a sheet of paper, what is step One?. Step one, the obvious, get a piece of paper. Space is "Nothing" except a few stray particles of many things but mostly Hydrogen and Water-Ice-Frozen-Gas-Dust if you are lucky with a lot of radiation from a very hostile environment that is the furnace of the stars nursery in the galaxies to the outer regions between. How the HELL do you fold "Nothing". Gravity is a field that we know very little about other than its a form of magnetism of all matter. Its the bit that pulls everything towards each other. You wanna "Fold" that before you even truly know how it works or why?. Light is on the electro-magnetic-frequency. Introducing a HIGH energy electrical charge into the general area, distorts light travelling through it?... No Shirt Sherlock?... A Lightening bolt CREATES Light. "That we know" Look, its like this, if you have a jet-blast from a fighter jet pointing at a target that measures the thrust at 100 yds back from the engine... if you introduce another source of propulsion, be that the wash from a rotor blade or another jet engine, at say 45 degree to the original blast, what do you think will happen?... Will there be some distortion on the general combined angle of thrust?.. So, if you have a laser light shining at a target, and introduce a plasma-inducing high energy source of electromagnetic "Interference" from a high energy source, and the light from the laser slightly changes direction.... erm?... so what?.. Everyone knows the basic principal of creating holograms, its the bit where two light sources "Collide" in mid air... Is this proof enough that the light from one source may "Interfere" with the light from another source?.. Has anyone tried measuring at a distance how the light is affected should one laser be pointed to interfere with another one?.. and done that at a high energy level?.. as in "At source" of the light?.. Loki provided a link, from that, may I take an example of an idea.... Take this "possibility" that there was a HUGE source of energy in the "Explosion" that was high energy making Plasma out of the very air it passed through, and that in turn created a LOT of thrust "Outwards" away from the storm. Combine "many" strikes, and sure as hell, the very air you are travelling through "Expands outwards". This is not a "warp" of time and space, this is merely travelling through an explosion field and finding you have been diverted off your intended path. Postulation... Try this. Set up an experiment and fire a rifle aimed at a target 500yds down the field. Do a few shots to get the sights in, and give it to someone who can hit the 10 ring on a regular basis. Do that from a bunker... it will become obvious why.... make it also a very BIG target, and have a slo-mo camera running ... Take another 5 shots at that target that you have already perforated, but this time, at 250 yards, have a carefully timed half-pound of c4 explode as the bullet flies past. May I ask at this point, what are you expecting the results to be?. If the bullet is not deflected at all, may I ask why Snipers are trained to allow for Windage?.. The pilots in the above quote did not therefore experience anything OTHER than a massive expansion of "Air" created by a lightning bolt. Could you use that as propulsion?... Oh yeah, you could... But... Recreating a lightning bolt of that magnitude requires a whole power-plant of supplying a city electricity generator size. we don't yet understand how electricity works, but we have become pretty skilled at manipulating it. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 22, 2016 7:51:47 GMT
Its this thing, what is "Magnetism".
There is a current theory that I support that Magnetism and Gravity are the same thing.... it just works "Better" in some metals that can change polarity than others that cant?..
I propose an experiment on if two magnets "Just far enough apart" to not attract each other immediately to move to stick together, suspended in air, defect more or less in zero or low gravity orbit than they do on earth.
Repeat just to see if atmosphere has any effect.
Why?.... I dunno, "I just wondered", and maybe that has the beginnings of science.
What I do know, and this is science from knowing stuff by watching Disco channels and using internet to fact check, Gravity and Light are intertwined, in that the swapping of electrons at close proximity is what sticks stuff together in all matter that we know of, and that same electronic swapping of electrons protons and the like is what creates plasma and light at high energy, and the electromagnetic attraction of particles is exactly the same in magnetic and gravitational things.
Its just the easily excited metals do it a lot better if all their particles are "aligned" in an electrical polarity way.
So I postulate, if, and this is a big is, based on the following phrase we all know well...
"we just dont Know"
If, and in that big if, if you managed to supply enough energy to accelerate an object to "Near light speed" and gave it that extra push, that object stores that potential energy.
At what speed would the energy involved get "Used" by the body in motion to actually create light its self?..
Therefore, I ask, if you start to travel at light speed, would you "Become" the light in more ways than one?.
Is that making sense?.
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Post by ironhold on Nov 28, 2016 18:36:21 GMT
YouTube host Thunderf00t, an actual scientist by trade, finally decided to weigh in on the EM Drive; I'm watching the video now.
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Post by ironhold on Nov 28, 2016 23:35:42 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 29, 2016 1:38:53 GMT
Sounds like Snopes doesn't have a clue either. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 29, 2016 7:51:42 GMT
May I suggest that "Snopes" go watch the "Blow your own sail" episode, and realise that just because many people say it wont work doesnt mean it be true?...
Snopes is again in no way qualified to even investigate this experiment, let alone make any decision, that would be like asking my Mate Dave, who is a bloody good lad when all is said and done, but I dont ask him to take a look at the latest MRI scans and diagnose the problems with my Back.
But he does know an awful lot on the subject of football....
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Post by ponytail61 on Nov 30, 2016 1:29:04 GMT
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2016 3:40:30 GMT
well, that would answer my biggest challenge to the EM drive being deemed the "fuelless drive" being that you have to power the drive somehow, whether it produces reaction mass or not. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2016 3:42:18 GMT
May I suggest that "Snopes" go watch the "Blow your own sail" episode, and realise that just because many people say it wont work doesnt mean it be true?... Snopes is again in no way qualified to even investigate this experiment, let alone make any decision, that would be like asking my Mate Dave, who is a bloody good lad when all is said and done, but I dont ask him to take a look at the latest MRI scans and diagnose the problems with my Back. But he does know an awful lot on the subject of football.... bearing in mind, of course, that WE were able to analyze and correctly understand how the "blow your own sail" concept would work in the real world. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 30, 2016 10:58:03 GMT
May I suggest that "Snopes" go watch the "Blow your own sail" episode, and realise that just because many people say it wont work doesnt mean it be true?... Snopes is again in no way qualified to even investigate this experiment, let alone make any decision, that would be like asking my Mate Dave, who is a bloody good lad when all is said and done, but I dont ask him to take a look at the latest MRI scans and diagnose the problems with my Back. But he does know an awful lot on the subject of football.... bearing in mind, of course, that WE were able to analyze and correctly understand how the "blow your own sail" concept would work in the real world. Not trying to Blow our own nopeet here, but as fans of MB's, and knowing the collective that inhabit this board, most of us have a basic sound knowledge of Physics and understand how things work. Snopes?... Not so much. They know a little about everything but not everything about one subject. This IS rocket science, and from reading their article, they misunderstand what Thrust is. Thrust is anything that "Pushes" with force on something on any direction... They question that as there is no "Exhaust", then there can be no force. If I push a toy car along the table with my finger, there will be no exhaust... but my finger is still implying a force that is creating Thrust on that car?. Therefore thrust is NOT always exhaust gas related. They then go on to explain that "Particles" will fly about in the "Combustion chamber" and imply force on that chamber... well, if there are particles flying about, some of them will eventually fly backwards out of the chamber.. Erm... Last time I checked, that qualifies as a type of "Exhaust"?... and therefore, its Thrust?... How can they be accepted as "Scientific" if they have missed that very principal?. If a Truck Driver from Manchester England can understand the "Lesson 101" principals of this thing working, why is it so hard for them?. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2016 15:10:14 GMT
for a closer-to-home concept of how a drive can work without directly acting on the surrounding medium, there's a little trick carpenters use to adjust sheets of subflooring. they stand on the subflooring, and jump in the direction they want to move it - then when they land, they kick forward. this makes the subflooring move slightly.
the motion all comes from managing the friction coefficient of the subflooring, but if one just looks at raw forces applied, it is not mathematically possible. not saying this is how the magic drive works, but it shows how rapidly physics gets complicated.
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Post by Lokifan on Nov 30, 2016 16:12:40 GMT
YouTube host Thunderf00t, an actual scientist by trade, finally decided to weigh in on the EM Drive; I'm watching the video now. <snip> I've seen his videos before. They are usually interesting and well argued. This one, not so much. Or, I should say, he seems to be beating a dead straw man's horse... First, I confess I stopped watching after the first 7 minutes. I may finish it later but I frankly got tired of the scientific tantrum he was throwing... He spends too much time arguing (essentially) that the test device can't be hitched up to the Starship Enterprise and immediately used to fly about. Any reasonable person understands that the test setup is being used to test the effect, not the practicality of a device. The first solid state transistor looked like this:  Doesn't look much like my smartphone, but it definitely led to it being created. Next, he talks about hype and kooky inventors. Hype is real and kooks are real. I remember the hype over Cold Fusion, the WOW! signal, and the FTL results from Italy earlier this decade. Meh. Someone is always tempted to jump the gun--and sometimes the race is over before it starts. Kooky inventors? The Nobel Prize winner William Shockley, who built the transistor above, is pretty much acknowledged as a racist. He also promoted paying people with IQs under 100 to be sterilized. He alienated his family and died alone. Yet, his work forms the basis of most of our modern electronics. One of my instructors worked with Shockley at Bell Labs. He confirmed Shockley was a racist, from first hand experience (my instructor was African-American). He also said that it didn't invalidate the work--just that Shockley was a jerk. The inventor may be a genuine, tin foil hat wearing nut, but that's irrelevant to the actual science involved and an ad hominem fallacy. Maybe Tfoot went on to address the actual issues of the test, in which case, good for him. But personally, the only reasonable response to the paper right now, to me, is "Hmm. Interesting. Let's look into this more". They'll be plenty of time to place blame and heap abuse later.  My uneducated opinion? Outgassing impurities from heated copper might explain everything, or...I don't know? Instrumentation error is a definite possibility. I'm not buying his flying car yet, but let's look into this more...  EDIT: Okay, looks like his argument gets to the meat at about 25 minutes in. It still amounts to "Probably instrumentation error". He seems much more upset about the hype than the science. Maybe he's just sick of it, or it's clickbait. Personally, I still want to see the error before I write it off; it's just too dang intriguing. But I'm still not buying a ticket... |
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 30, 2016 18:37:59 GMT
Speaking of great inventors that were a little off-center, Nicola Tesla comes to mind.
And Stephen Hawking recently also seems to be following in those footsteps.
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Post by the light works on Dec 1, 2016 1:54:12 GMT
Speaking of great inventors that were a little off-center, Nicola Tesla comes to mind. And Stephen Hawking recently also seems to be following in those footsteps. and half of tesla's inventions were absolutely brilliant, and half were laughable. a few were sound in concept but lacked something in execution. for example, he could actually transmit electricity wirelessly. you just couldn't listen to anything electronic within a mile of the transmission range. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 2, 2016 9:41:20 GMT
Speaking of great inventors that were a little off-center, Nicola Tesla comes to mind. And Stephen Hawking recently also seems to be following in those footsteps. and half of tesla's inventions were absolutely brilliant, and half were laughable. a few were sound in concept but lacked something in execution. for example, he could actually transmit electricity wirelessly. you just couldn't listen to anything electronic within a mile of the transmission range. However, following that idea, we now have the ability to have charging mats, where you can put a phone on a table and have it recharge without wires.... Yes some ideas are not workable "At the time", doesnt mean they never will?... Tesla, like Archimedes and DaVinci, was just ahead of his own time. So are a great many thinkers, including Einstein, who's greatest problem was he was delivering answers for questions no one had thought about before. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 2, 2016 15:31:34 GMT
and half of tesla's inventions were absolutely brilliant, and half were laughable. a few were sound in concept but lacked something in execution. for example, he could actually transmit electricity wirelessly. you just couldn't listen to anything electronic within a mile of the transmission range. However, following that idea, we now have the ability to have charging mats, where you can put a phone on a table and have it recharge without wires.... Yes some ideas are not workable "At the time", doesnt mean they never will?... Tesla, like Archimedes and DaVinci, was just ahead of his own time. So are a great many thinkers, including Einstein, who's greatest problem was he was delivering answers for questions no one had thought about before. he also designed a magic flying machine that for all intents and purposes was little more than a washing machine with an unbalanced load. and near field charging is closer to a two piece transformer than it is to wireless power transmission. keep in mind, we are talking about sending power through the town without power lines. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 2, 2016 15:32:57 GMT
and half of tesla's inventions were absolutely brilliant, and half were laughable. a few were sound in concept but lacked something in execution. for example, he could actually transmit electricity wirelessly. you just couldn't listen to anything electronic within a mile of the transmission range. However, following that idea, we now have the ability to have charging mats, where you can put a phone on a table and have it recharge without wires.... Yes some ideas are not workable "At the time", doesnt mean they never will?... Tesla, like Archimedes and DaVinci, was just ahead of his own time. So are a great many thinkers, including Einstein, who's greatest problem was he was delivering answers for questions no one had thought about before. Many of Tesla's "quarks" had nothing to do with his inventions. |
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