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Post by ironhold on Sept 2, 2015 20:10:39 GMT
Mom left the TV on while she was cleaning, and whatever channel she was on was airing a documentary about horror films.
One thing the documentary claimed was that slasher films were on the wane, at which point some of the guests began speculating on ways in which the genre could be revived.
This got me to thinking.
In most slasher films, the audience is supposed to sympathize with the victims. They're usually innocent individuals who get caught up in the violence and bloodshed through no fault of their own.
But what if we have a slasher film in which the audience is forced to pick who they're loyal to? For example, suppose we have a film about a group of Nazi collaborators getting picked off by a member of the French Resistance. Or a film in which ISIS fighters are being hunted down by a military commando. We're supposed to be sympathetic towards the victims in the film, but in situations like this we'd have people who were villains in real life as the "heroes" being stalked by the "evil" real-life hero.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 2, 2015 23:13:56 GMT
It would be difficult to do. It would be real easy to turn into a different telling of "Inglorious {person of questionable parentage}s." You have to have someone to root for, otherwise there is no emotional involvement and it will flop. Remember Freddie Vs. Jason? Child killer vs. teen killer, you don't like either.
It would depend on how it was done. I could see it being interesting if done one of three ways.
1. The "evil" nature of the people getting killed off is not stated until late in the movie. You have time to sympathise with them and their plight and only after you have a connection do you find out about the skeletons in their closet.
2. The people being killed are not loyal party followers, but are caught in the middle of it. They express dissatisfaction with their situation and wish they could get out, but are being hunted down.
3. The people being killed are relieved to be evil, bit they are being killed in even worse and horrible ways. So that the killer is even more evil than they are.
I see #2 being the most practical from a story telling perspective.
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Post by the light works on Sept 3, 2015 3:10:13 GMT
I think #3 was more what ironhold had in mind.
I can tell you the primary objection Hollywood would have to it: it hasn't already been done to death.
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 3, 2015 10:23:21 GMT
#3 is also the most problematic way of doing it. It is very easy to loose sympathy for both sides of the conflict and thus the whole movie. You need some way of identifying with one side, otherwise it is a matter of who you dislike more. That sort of thing has a very limited audience who is into it. For your average person, we have enough of "the lesser of two evils" in politics.
I think #1 would has the potential to be the best way to do what Iornhold suggests, but it would be really tricky to do. If you have your reveal too early, you loose everyone. One thought on how it could be done is to have a group of Nazi commandos working behind enemy lines. That way they are out of uniform and you don't see who's side they are on until late in the movie when they get back to HQ late in the film. Or something like that
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Post by the light works on Sept 3, 2015 14:44:44 GMT
#3 is also the most problematic way of doing it. It is very easy to loose sympathy for both sides of the conflict and thus the whole movie. You need some way of identifying with one side, otherwise it is a matter of who you dislike more. That sort of thing has a very limited audience who is into it. For your average person, we have enough of "the lesser of two evils" in politics. I think #1 would has the potential to be the best way to do what Iornhold suggests, but it would be really tricky to do. If you have your reveal too early, you loose everyone. One thought on how it could be done is to have a group of Nazi commandos working behind enemy lines. That way they are out of uniform and you don't see who's side they are on until late in the movie when they get back to HQ late in the film. Or something like that #3 also describes Crash, which I cared nothing for, but won an academy award. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 4, 2015 8:17:47 GMT
Revive "Slasher" films.
So a gore-fest that spends the whole film up to you armpits in fake blood and tomato sauce...
Maybe the reason why they are dying out is no one is interested any more?.. done that, it went, it wasnt that good anyway?...
I am playing devils advocate for good reason here, I was never a fan, but I have no reason to hate people who do like that type of film, but I would complain if the "Next star wars" was put on delay so they could do a slasher film I was never going to watch in the first place...
So for the discussion, has it been "Done to death" anyway, and would anyone WANT it back even if you tried?...
For me, the last decent pure horror films were the Hellraiser series.
But, there HAVE been half decent horror films that were not just Gore-fest.
Perhaps thats what went wrong... they ran out of good story lines.
Have we progressed far enough away from the days of the Roman Gladiator bloodbaths, where it was entertainment?..
Unfortunately no.
But do those type of film incite that type of violence?...
Yes.
Nazi... ohhh no.
No no no no no.....
You want to incite a whole heap of complaints from certain areas of the community?...
And I have to be pedantic here, so read carefully, I aint trying to single out any religious hatred...
I mean not just the certain area's of the Jewish community who will immediately arise to the "how dare you even mention that name" ant-semistic-o-phobia type serially offended, I mean those who are just serially offended for any given reason and will pore over every single opportunity to grab headlines for their own self gratification and self publicity just to incite hatred against you for "Glorifying the Nazi's", even if your intention is to show their destruction.
There are people out there who will quite happily ignore any boundary just to be offended "In the name of the greater good", they aint sympathisers of anything, they just drive the biggest campaign bus they can find to make their own name.
My pedantic vitriol is aimed squarely at them. They WILL grab opportunity to bring you down just so they can go up....
Think Cake-gate on steroids....
Going the nazi way would quite possibly invoke Godwins Law, no one wins.
However, for the progression of the thread...
Can you get all sci-fi on this, and show perhaps a "space" oriented battle, where you play the character of maybe some slightly sideways Assassin, who enjoys "wet-work", who plots how to create the most spectacular scene out of his assignments.
Then slowly bring in the story that he is doing this "For the greater good", and those who he targets are not just bad apples, but quite possibly trying to bring down the destruction of the universe....
Why am I writing this?... I should be writing the bloody script for this, its such a good idea.....
And no, I aint taking myself too serious here, I am just giving the thread some food to ponder over.
But I may go a little into the how to write a book based on the idea.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 4, 2015 11:43:02 GMT
Not that I have seen them but aren't there films like The Last House On the Left from the 1970s that might broadly fit into this idea?
A group,of criminals kidnap two girls rape them both murder one and attempt the murder of the other, and them find themselves at the mercy of one of the girls parents.
I am sure if you were to trawl through the output of the Horror Channel you could find other films that fit the bad people having really bad things done to them mould.
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Post by the light works on Sept 4, 2015 14:06:01 GMT
Not that I have seen them but aren't there films like The Last House On the Left from the 1970s that might broadly fit into this idea? A group,of criminals kidnap two girls rape them both murder one and attempt the murder of the other, and them find themselves at the mercy of one of the girls parents. I am sure if you were to trawl through the output of the Horror Channel you could find other films that fit the bad people having really bad things done to them mould. I am reminded of one I heard about called something to the effect of "she spits upon your grave" in which it was the rape victim herself who became the slasher. my own thought is there is a huge number of very good books out there, particularly in the fantasy/sci-fi genres (said because those are the genres I know most about) that are short enough and good enough to be made into movies. - even some into serials, and some into TV miniseries. |
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 4, 2015 14:22:05 GMT
Not that I have seen them but aren't there films like The Last House On the Left from the 1970s that might broadly fit into this idea? A group,of criminals kidnap two girls rape them both murder one and attempt the murder of the other, and them find themselves at the mercy of one of the girls parents. I am sure if you were to trawl through the output of the Horror Channel you could find other films that fit the bad people having really bad things done to them mould. I am reminded of one I heard about called something to the effect of "she spits upon your grave" in which it was the rape victim herself who became the slasher. my own thought is there is a huge number of very good books out there, particularly in the fantasy/sci-fi genres (said because those are the genres I know most about) that are short enough and good enough to be made into movies. - even some into serials, and some into TV miniseries. I think its "I Spit on Your Grave", not that I am a horror movie fan, just a fan of films in general. I can think of several Scince Fiction and Fantasy book series which I would like to see made into films or film series, I wonder if we would choose the same ones? From a fairly British perspective I would like to see something by David Gemmell like Legend or Waylander made into a film. I like Ian M Banks or Neil Asher but they would be too tough to make into movies. Some of David Eddings books would make quite interesting films the Belgariad has a simple enough structure that would lead viewers to become interested I think. |
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Post by the light works on Sept 4, 2015 14:46:26 GMT
I am reminded of one I heard about called something to the effect of "she spits upon your grave" in which it was the rape victim herself who became the slasher. my own thought is there is a huge number of very good books out there, particularly in the fantasy/sci-fi genres (said because those are the genres I know most about) that are short enough and good enough to be made into movies. - even some into serials, and some into TV miniseries. I think its "I Spit on Your Grave", not that I am a horror movie fan, just a fan of films in general. I can think of several Scince Fiction and Fantasy book series which I would like to see made into films or film series, I wonder if we would choose the same ones? From a fairly British perspective I would like to see something by David Gemmell like Legend or Waylander made into a film. I like Ian M Banks or Neil Asher but they would be too tough to make into movies. Some of David Eddings books would make quite interesting films the Belgariad has a simple enough structure that would lead viewers to become interested I think. I would love to make Eddings' two biggest series into TV miniseries. I don't think a movie or movie series could do justice to them, because of time constraints. I don't know Gemmell, Banks, or Asher. some of my other ones would be Terry Brooks, David Drake (Hammer's Slammers - military sci-fi) Anne McCaffrey (dragonrider series and "the ship who" series) and David Weber's "Honor Harrington" series. I could probably poke through my bookshelf and find a dozen single titles that would make good movies. (and by good I mean movies I would want to see and would be possible to make) |
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 4, 2015 14:58:56 GMT
David Edding series I thought would make rather good books to adapt into several movies, a franchise like LOTR, The Hunger Games or The Hobbit. The Pawn Of Prophecy one film, with Enchanters End Game the last. I had heard that there were several attempts to make Pern into a TV mini-series I like them too, but a stumbling block has been for some studio exces. there is no clear villain just the natural disaster of Threadfall to combat. The three authors I mentioned are probably better known here than in the states David Gemmell wrote heroic fantasy, for example Legend is written about the Defense of a fortress against a Mongel type horde. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_(Gemmell_novel)He was well respected in British fantasy circles, After he died in 2006 an award was endowed in his name. |
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 7, 2015 23:14:50 GMT
#3 also describes Crash, which I cared nothing for, but won an academy award. Funny how that describes most of the movies to win big awards. More often than not, they are not ones that I am interested or like. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 8, 2015 0:42:28 GMT
It seems that semi-independent religious movie "War Room" is blowing up the charts right now. Two weeks ago it beat "Straight Outta Compton" for Friday ticket sales, and this weekend it was the #1 movie flat-out. It's already at #51 for the year on Box Office Mojo's rankings, and it can only go higher from there while it's still screening.
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Post by ironhold on Sept 19, 2015 1:08:10 GMT
Final numbers won't be in for a while, but at this point I think it's safe to say that "We Are Your Friends" was pretty much dead on arrival (last I checked it was #103 for the year) and "War Room" is the sleeper hit of the year (in the 40s).
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Post by the light works on Sept 19, 2015 2:18:12 GMT
"we are your friends" is another that I apparently disregarded completely on IMDB's upcomong movies list.
of course, I ignored War Room as well.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 19, 2015 7:48:53 GMT
#3 also describes Crash, which I cared nothing for, but won an academy award. Funny how that describes most of the movies to win big awards. More often than not, they are not ones that I am interested or like. I am sceptical (DUH?) and in that, I suspect that certain films are given awards just to promote them, and the awards are there JUST to promote the films that people wont watch anyway... As in, "Why didnt you watch this film it has won many award, you must be daft not to watch it if it has that many awards" type pressure.... And yeah, some people only watch the film because it has won awards. Stupid?... No. Because those people that DO follow the peer pressure of "Its won awards it must be good" mentality do go watch the film.... Therefore, the hosting of the award pays for its self in ticket sales. I suspect therefore, If I could gain the ability to hand out awards, there may be the pressure to accept brown envelopes to push certain awards to certain films. Am I suggesting corruption?... Hell yeah. I mean, no one ever suspected FIFA did they?.... |
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Post by the light works on Sept 19, 2015 8:16:42 GMT
Funny how that describes most of the movies to win big awards. More often than not, they are not ones that I am interested or like. I am sceptical (DUH?) and in that, I suspect that certain films are given awards just to promote them, and the awards are there JUST to promote the films that people wont watch anyway... As in, "Why didnt you watch this film it has won many award, you must be daft not to watch it if it has that many awards" type pressure.... And yeah, some people only watch the film because it has won awards. Stupid?... No. Because those people that DO follow the peer pressure of "Its won awards it must be good" mentality do go watch the film.... Therefore, the hosting of the award pays for its self in ticket sales. I suspect therefore, If I could gain the ability to hand out awards, there may be the pressure to accept brown envelopes to push certain awards to certain films. Am I suggesting corruption?... Hell yeah. I mean, no one ever suspected FIFA did they?.... I think not so much corruption as cronyism - after all, the motion picture academy is the directors and producers and such patting each other on the back. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 20, 2015 9:31:45 GMT
Expected Duds....
Can we have a sub-section for films that need express roads straight into room 101?... should we have a film section specially made for the room 101?...
Anyway, I have an early entry.. its not even made yet, I dont think.
Ghostbusters.... the RE-Make.
Look, the film, the characters, the interaction between a set of very special actors, thats what made that film.
But it has been done....
It was brilliant.
I laughed along with the rest.
But now they want to remake it with an ALL WOMAN cast?...
Its Doomed.
DOOMED Mr Mannering, DOOMED I tell you....
Its not the all-woman part I object to, its the being 'told' I MUST like it because its a feminist statement when I bloody well wont.
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Post by the light works on Sept 20, 2015 13:54:16 GMT
Expected Duds.... Can we have a sub-section for films that need express roads straight into room 101?... should we have a film section specially made for the room 101?... Anyway, I have an early entry.. its not even made yet, I dont think. Ghostbusters.... the RE-Make. Look, the film, the characters, the interaction between a set of very special actors, thats what made that film. But it has been done.... It was brilliant. I laughed along with the rest. But now they want to remake it with an ALL WOMAN cast?... Its Doomed. DOOMED Mr Mannering, DOOMED I tell you.... Its not the all-woman part I object to, its the being 'told' I MUST like it because its a feminist statement when I bloody well wont. I am willing to like a movie because it is good. I am willing to like a remake because it explores aspects not explored in the original. (like maybe the screenwriter having read the book, this time) but I refuse to be coerced into liking a bad movie just because it makes some kind of statement. |
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Post by the light works on Sept 20, 2015 13:56:34 GMT
That being said, I watched Fury Road last night, and I feel about the same about it as I feel about the new version of Star Trek: good movie in its own right, but it lost a little bit of the spirit of the originals.
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