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Post by silverdragon on Apr 5, 2015 7:27:30 GMT
Most people learn this stuff while they're taking their license, but most of them also seem to forget it again shortly after. Many men and (I'm sorry to say) most women have never had the hood of a car open after they've passed their driver's test. It's like they think the dipstick is only there to provide a pitfall for the unprepaired during the test and has no practical function beyond that. I know many men, and some women, that are far better off if they never learn how to open the hood of their car. You don't have to know how to raise cattle to eat a stake and you don't have to know the first thing about electronics to watch a TV. As long as their vehicle is kept in good operating condition by someone they pay to do the job, there is no reason why they should have to know how to change the oil before they learn to drive. And that is the problem here in UK. We have so many people getting stranded because they dont know the first thing about vehicle maintenance.... LAW. The law states you should check oil water and other fluids before you start off. You should also check you lights. MYTH. Its no longer required that you should stop after 100 yds and check them all again.... in case anything fell off.... But you SHOULD check basics before you start.... The modern driving test in UK (and probably europe) is that you [i[should[/i] know basic maintenance, like whicj hole the oil water and petrol go in and how to change a tyre. (ETC...) As Professional drivers of large goods vehicles we are required to carry a full set of spare bulbs in case obe blows whilst on the road. I believe it also law in some european countries to do the same for car drivers. I cant see what the problem is requiring car drivers to know basic maintenance...?... Like you should anyway, shouldnt you?... This "Someone else does all that" is hogwash. Lest see you 100 miles from home on a wet and cold night, maybe new years eve or some other public holiday, maybe a lot of snow causing major traffic disruptions, getting "Someone else" to come change a tyre, frustrating, and hopefully expensive. All because you dont want to get your hands dirty spinning a wheel wrench.... And then you divert an emergency service from someone with REAL problems, snapped drive shaft from a pot hole and 3 kids in the car..... Where emergency services are those who do roadside recoveries, who are real hero's in such conditions. For me, I say, if you want to drive, be responsible. Responsible means knowing the basic functions of the machine. I do not know of any machine operators in industry who are allowed to run anything near as complex as a car without some basic safety and maintenance training.... So why for car drivers allowed to get away with it?.. Remembering, a Drivers license is a privileged not a 'uman rights thing. |
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 5, 2015 7:43:37 GMT
How many of these warning symbols would the average driver know? I didn't know some and had to look them up. Like 45 and 55. Really? View AttachmentSome of them I didnt immediately recognize, like the tow hitch warning... But then again, what would that be?... I dont know any sensors on my car that would create that warning?... But then again..... If you owns it, shouldnt you read the book of words before you drives it?... (Or at least have that book of words on hand to diagnose the warning light.... thats what glove boxes are for...) The bonnet open warning, on the other hand, I got before I looked at the description. But then my own car has one single door open warning light for all doors bonnet hatch and fuel cap. Thing is, its part of my job to flash up the dash (there is a test button on all commercial vehicles that illuminates all warning lights) and familiarize myself before I start driving, its part of my daily checks, to make sure it all lights up, and to know what they all mean. I dont see my usual bug bear of "Air low" light on that one... and I get that daily.... Thats another check, I am supposed to run the brakes out of air with the engine off until the alarm sounds and check when the engine runs it fills the air tanks in a timely manner..... 17 and 18... Like what?.... Why for you need a light to tell you when to brake or use clutch?.... I dont get that, and not sure why/what its for?... Or is that a start up procedure?... I have driven vehicles who wont start the engine unless brake and clutch are engaged. But that was a "secret" anti-theft device you were not supposed to get by reading the dash?... 58 and 63, erm... confusing, which is which, and would you know from a glance.... |
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Post by the light works on Apr 5, 2015 14:11:35 GMT
I know many men, and some women, that are far better off if they never learn how to open the hood of their car. You don't have to know how to raise cattle to eat a stake and you don't have to know the first thing about electronics to watch a TV. As long as their vehicle is kept in good operating condition by someone they pay to do the job, there is no reason why they should have to know how to change the oil before they learn to drive. And that is the problem here in UK. We have so many people getting stranded because they dont know the first thing about vehicle maintenance.... LAW. The law states you should check oil water and other fluids before you start off. You should also check you lights. MYTH. Its no longer required that you should stop after 100 yds and check them all again.... in case anything fell off.... But you SHOULD check basics before you start.... The modern driving test in UK (and probably europe) is that you [i[should [/i] know basic maintenance, like whicj hole the oil water and petrol go in and how to change a tyre. (ETC...) As Professional drivers of large goods vehicles we are required to carry a full set of spare bulbs in case obe blows whilst on the road. I believe it also law in some european countries to do the same for car drivers. I cant see what the problem is requiring car drivers to know basic maintenance...?... Like you should anyway, shouldnt you?... This "Someone else does all that" is hogwash. Lest see you 100 miles from home on a wet and cold night, maybe new years eve or some other public holiday, maybe a lot of snow causing major traffic disruptions, getting "Someone else" to come change a tyre, frustrating, and hopefully expensive. All because you dont want to get your hands dirty spinning a wheel wrench.... And then you divert an emergency service from someone with REAL problems, snapped drive shaft from a pot hole and 3 kids in the car..... Where emergency services are those who do roadside recoveries, who are real hero's in such conditions. For me, I say, if you want to drive, be responsible. Responsible means knowing the basic functions of the machine. I do not know of any machine operators in industry who are allowed to run anything near as complex as a car without some basic safety and maintenance training.... So why for car drivers allowed to get away with it?.. Remembering, a Drivers license is a privileged not a 'uman rights thing. [/quote] Oregon law on truck lights is simpler: "all lights installed must be working" as in you don't have to carry a spare, but if it burns out you can't legally drive it to get one. - and note it not only applies to the minimum legally required clearance lights, but to any you install for decoration. |
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Post by the light works on Apr 5, 2015 14:15:46 GMT
How many of these warning symbols would the average driver know? I didn't know some and had to look them up. Like 45 and 55. Really? View AttachmentSome of them I didnt immediately recognize, like the tow hitch warning... But then again, what would that be?... I dont know any sensors on my car that would create that warning?... But then again..... If you owns it, shouldnt you read the book of words before you drives it?... (Or at least have that book of words on hand to diagnose the warning light.... thats what glove boxes are for...) The bonnet open warning, on the other hand, I got before I looked at the description. But then my own car has one single door open warning light for all doors bonnet hatch and fuel cap. Thing is, its part of my job to flash up the dash (there is a test button on all commercial vehicles that illuminates all warning lights) and familiarize myself before I start driving, its part of my daily checks, to make sure it all lights up, and to know what they all mean. I dont see my usual bug bear of "Air low" light on that one... and I get that daily.... Thats another check, I am supposed to run the brakes out of air with the engine off until the alarm sounds and check when the engine runs it fills the air tanks in a timely manner..... 17 and 18... Like what?.... Why for you need a light to tell you when to brake or use clutch?.... I dont get that, and not sure why/what its for?... Or is that a start up procedure?... I have driven vehicles who wont start the engine unless brake and clutch are engaged. But that was a "secret" anti-theft device you were not supposed to get by reading the dash?... 58 and 63, erm... confusing, which is which, and would you know from a glance.... in the late 70s and 80s, here, some cars wouldn't crank the engine unless the clutch was depressed. some cars had a "yes I mean to do it" button that would let you use the starter to move it, but you couldn't crank it in gear on accident. addendum: but I agree that most of these warning lights seem to be made-up usages for me. |
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 8, 2015 7:03:35 GMT
How confusing... for you Americans... not only did you have the THIRD pedal to worry about but you had to press it to get going?...
[/sarcasm..].. well, for now....?..
No seriously, with all your automatics, how did you ever get that?
Now here is a worry, I had a bike that would only "start" if it was in neutral.
It was prone to me stalling it by putting it in the wrong bloody gear....
But then, I had to stop to restart the engine?...
I can do a rolling start in my car if I stall that, without breaking stride, so why cant I just "bump" start the bike that way?...
That took a few miles with the haynes to discover the neural light sensor, and disable the (beep) outa that one.
The idea was that it stopped you starting the bike in gear and have it jump of the stand.
Well, My bad, I never start a bike that way anyway.
The bike is always off the stand and ready to roll.
I know a couple of modern cars that wont start unless you have the brake pedal pushed...
That kinda makes sense, stops you again starting "In Gear" and lurching away.
A friend used to rally drive, he had a sequential gear box, but he had engineered in a "restart" lever...
As in it would put the gear box in neutral, and reset all the sequential controls.
As he said, in his position, you could get an off at any time, and once you dig your way out of the scenery, you can remember what gear you were in when it happened?.. best to get a complete restart from neutral, it also protects the engine.
But this is why I like my "H" box setup of a "normal" car, if I go race driving, I need a complete different machine, until then, I can manage to run my car the way I want with just enough technology to tell me where there is a fault and enough ABS to keep me in any line I need to steer to avoid the sudden sheep.
The haynes manual for my car is somewhere in the bookshelf.
I have it, but I have never needed to use it for anything more than changing a windscreen wash pump.
The rest was kind of "sensible", you can see the obvious dipstick from the engine, and the brake and clutch reservoirs are made of see-through white plastic, are labelled, and just below the windscreen for easy access.
The radiator tank is to one side, which is also helpfully see through and labeled with max an min markers.
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Post by the light works on Apr 8, 2015 14:41:04 GMT
How confusing... for you Americans... not only did you have the THIRD pedal to worry about but you had to press it to get going?... [/sarcasm..].. well, for now....?.. No seriously, with all your automatics, how did you ever get that? Now here is a worry, I had a bike that would only "start" if it was in neutral. It was prone to me stalling it by putting it in the wrong bloody gear.... But then, I had to stop to restart the engine?... I can do a rolling start in my car if I stall that, without breaking stride, so why cant I just "bump" start the bike that way?... That took a few miles with the haynes to discover the neural light sensor, and disable the (beep) outa that one. The idea was that it stopped you starting the bike in gear and have it jump of the stand. Well, My bad, I never start a bike that way anyway. The bike is always off the stand and ready to roll. I know a couple of modern cars that wont start unless you have the brake pedal pushed... That kinda makes sense, stops you again starting "In Gear" and lurching away. A friend used to rally drive, he had a sequential gear box, but he had engineered in a "restart" lever... As in it would put the gear box in neutral, and reset all the sequential controls. As he said, in his position, you could get an off at any time, and once you dig your way out of the scenery, you can remember what gear you were in when it happened?.. best to get a complete restart from neutral, it also protects the engine. But this is why I like my "H" box setup of a "normal" car, if I go race driving, I need a complete different machine, until then, I can manage to run my car the way I want with just enough technology to tell me where there is a fault and enough ABS to keep me in any line I need to steer to avoid the sudden sheep. The haynes manual for my car is somewhere in the bookshelf. I have it, but I have never needed to use it for anything more than changing a windscreen wash pump. The rest was kind of "sensible", you can see the obvious dipstick from the engine, and the brake and clutch reservoirs are made of see-through white plastic, are labelled, and just below the windscreen for easy access. The radiator tank is to one side, which is also helpfully see through and labeled with max an min markers. our automatics only let you crank if you are in neutral or park. however, I had an old work truck that was prone to stalling. the transmission sensor also failed - so you had to fuss with the shift lever until it cooperated. rather than replace the switch, the mechanic just put a position switch so when you threw it into park, it would hit the switch. - which meant when it stalled going down the road, you had to stop and put it into park before you could restart it. (previously we could restart it in neutral) - I cut the wires off the switch and wire nutted them together. then I didn't even have to take it out of gear if the fire went out going down the road. just grab the light switch on the instrument cluster and throw it over to engage the starter. (the ignition switch was wonky, too) I think my bike will not allow the engine to run if the bike is in gear and the sidestand is down. I got no quarrel with reasonable safety interlocks. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 8, 2015 16:20:55 GMT
On my Jeep, you have to press the clutch for the starter to engage. There is an open fuse position on the fuse block that if you put a 15A fuse in that spot, it overrides the clutch interlock. The manual says it's for off road use but I really don't know why you would ever need to engage the starter without being able to press down the clutch. Maybe there are some off road situations where that would be desirable, but I can't think of any.
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Post by the light works on Apr 8, 2015 16:45:08 GMT
On my Jeep, you have to press the clutch for the starter to engage. There is an open fuse position on the fuse block that if you put a 15A fuse in that spot, it overrides the clutch interlock. The manual says it's for off road use but I really don't know why you would ever need to engage the starter without being able to press down the clutch. Maybe there are some off road situations where that would be desirable, but I can't think of any. there are occasional instances where a person might use the starter to move the vehicle. also occasions where they might start it using one foot on the brake and the other on the throttle - starting it in neutral. - on my old fire engine, I would reach in the cab, confirm it was in neutral, pull the choke, and start it to let it build brake air, while I did my safety walkaround. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 8, 2015 17:02:26 GMT
On my Jeep, you have to press the clutch for the starter to engage. There is an open fuse position on the fuse block that if you put a 15A fuse in that spot, it overrides the clutch interlock. The manual says it's for off road use but I really don't know why you would ever need to engage the starter without being able to press down the clutch. Maybe there are some off road situations where that would be desirable, but I can't think of any. there are occasional instances where a person might use the starter to move the vehicle. also occasions where they might start it using one foot on the brake and the other on the throttle - starting it in neutral. - on my old fire engine, I would reach in the cab, confirm it was in neutral, pull the choke, and start it to let it build brake air, while I did my safety walkaround. I can see a case where you may want to use the starter to move the vehicle if the engine won't start, but in normal off-roading, I don't know why you would need to have one foot on the gas to start the engine. Unless, of course, there is something wrong with the engine and it will only start or keep running if you're giving it gas. If I thought I needed to override the clutch interlock, I would rather have a pushbutton on the dash to do it. That way you could do it if you intended to but there would still be the safety interlock to prevent unintentional starting the vehicle in gear. The thing is that I always leave my Jeep in reverse when parked to prevent it rolling rather than using the hand break (as I should) because the hand brake doesn't work that well. |
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Post by the light works on Apr 8, 2015 17:10:16 GMT
there are occasional instances where a person might use the starter to move the vehicle. also occasions where they might start it using one foot on the brake and the other on the throttle - starting it in neutral. - on my old fire engine, I would reach in the cab, confirm it was in neutral, pull the choke, and start it to let it build brake air, while I did my safety walkaround. I can see a case where you may want to use the starter to move the vehicle if the engine won't start, but in normal off-roading, I don't know why you would need to have one foot on the gas to start the engine. Unless, of course, there is something wrong with the engine and it will only start or keep running if you're giving it gas. If I thought I needed to override the clutch interlock, I would rather have a pushbutton on the dash to do it. That way you could do it if you intended to but there would still be the safety interlock to prevent unintentional starting the vehicle in gear. The thing is that I always leave my Jeep in reverse when parked to prevent it rolling rather than using the hand break (as I should) because the hand brake doesn't work that well. yeah, some I have seen have a pushbutton on the dashboard - but in hardcore offroading both hands may be busy as well. in my own case, I would use it when launching my boat: back it down the ramp and shut it off, then because the vacuum for the brake booster may have bled off, I'd just hit the key in gear to drive out instead of pushing the clutch and brake. (usually in low range to keep things slowish) |
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 8, 2015 17:22:30 GMT
yeah, some I have seen have a pushbutton on the dashboard - but in hardcore offroading both hands may be busy as well. in my own case, I would use it when launching my boat: back it down the ramp and shut it off, then because the vacuum for the brake booster may have bled off, I'd just hit the key in gear to drive out instead of pushing the clutch and brake. (usually in low range to keep things slowish) Some of these adamant off roaders do some crazy things. I never have gone off-roading just for the sake of off-roading. If I'm off road, it's usually to get to someplace I want to get to but someone has forgotten to put a road in to get there. Most often between parking lots of adjacent strip malls. |
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Post by the light works on Apr 8, 2015 17:38:55 GMT
yeah, some I have seen have a pushbutton on the dashboard - but in hardcore offroading both hands may be busy as well. in my own case, I would use it when launching my boat: back it down the ramp and shut it off, then because the vacuum for the brake booster may have bled off, I'd just hit the key in gear to drive out instead of pushing the clutch and brake. (usually in low range to keep things slowish) Some of these adamant off roaders do some crazy things. I never have gone off-roading just for the sake of off-roading. If I'm off road, it's usually to get to someplace I want to get to but someone has forgotten to put a road in to get there. Most often between parking lots of adjacent strip malls. our state fairgrounds has grass parking areas, and one year one of the regional newspaper columnists wrote a lovely article about all the urban SUV drivers celebrating actually having their SUVs off pavement for the first time, ever. |
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Post by ironhold on Apr 8, 2015 18:34:48 GMT
How confusing... for you Americans... not only did you have the THIRD pedal to worry about but you had to press it to get going?... [/sarcasm..] I prefer automatics because my left ankle didn't heal properly after a sports injury, making it physically painful to work a clutch. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 8, 2015 19:21:44 GMT
How confusing... for you Americans... not only did you have the THIRD pedal to worry about but you had to press it to get going?... [/sarcasm..] I prefer automatics because my left ankle didn't heal properly after a sports injury, making it physically painful to work a clutch. Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. |
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Post by ironhold on Apr 8, 2015 23:01:36 GMT
I prefer automatics because my left ankle didn't heal properly after a sports injury, making it physically painful to work a clutch. Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. I once had to change a tire on an MG B. That killed my interest in any and all British cars. Specifically, the model in question didn't have a standard "rim + hub" like most cars do. Instead, the hub slid over the axle and was held in place by a screw-on cap. Said cap required a special tool to remove as said tool was the only thing designed to fit the notches in the cap. Said tool was too small for my hands to get a good grip on, and so what should have only been a five-minute solo job took half an hour and eventually required assistance. |
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Post by the light works on Apr 9, 2015 0:14:39 GMT
I prefer automatics because my left ankle didn't heal properly after a sports injury, making it physically painful to work a clutch. Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. right, THAT's why brits don't understand how we yanks can actually like automatics. ours are like flappy paddle shifters without the flappy paddles. |
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Post by kharnynb on Apr 9, 2015 3:55:27 GMT
I prefer automatics because my left ankle didn't heal properly after a sports injury, making it physically painful to work a clutch. Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. And some day the french will make cars without a bunch of annoying electrical faults.... I personally prefer manual cars, as it's more fun to drive. That doesn't mean I think either type as "better". |
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 9, 2015 11:29:09 GMT
Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. And some day the french will make cars without a bunch of annoying electrical faults.... French cars with electrical faults? That is slander, sir and I will not stand for it! Oh no, wait... It's only slander if it isn't true...  |
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 10, 2015 6:02:12 GMT
Now there I have a problem.
Some bike mechanizing requires you have the engine running....
How for you do that if you cant put the stand down?...
(Things like balancing the timing mechanism on a three-pot Kwak, etc....)
Perhaps modern engine may differ, but, older ones you require to spin the starter wait for it to catch then pedal like fury to get the thing to run properly.
Some required a little throttle to get them going...?...
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 10, 2015 6:10:58 GMT
Someday the Brits will figure out how to build an automatic transmission. But until then, no British cars for you. right, THAT's why brits don't understand how we yanks can actually like automatics. ours are like flappy paddle shifters without the flappy paddles. Having driven yank cars, no, you aint got it right yet. The timing of the change, "hunting" between gears when going up hill, and thats why some of your cars have a "hold" switch to prevent that, the god damn awful gear ratio's, and a heck of a lot more... And the weight. Nope, you aint got it right yet. Come back when you do.... And for the record, we sell a LOT of flappy-paddle semi-auto's over here just because they are so good. Its not the absence of a third pedal we object to, its the car never changes gear when it should, wand then when it shouldnt. We prefer Manual, they do what we want them to do, and they aint that difficult when you get used to them...?... Perhaps when you drive UK roads you will see why your cars just dont work here. And some day Pakistan will do a moon shot... Oh, wait...... Strange thing is, they CAN do it. Renault trucks are sworn over as being extremely reliable. So why cant they make cars as good as trucks?.. (and when I say trucks, I mean the heavyweight stuff I drive commercially...) |
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