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Post by c64 on Jul 19, 2015 10:50:21 GMT
And that must be the reason why you never see any UK made cars in US movies - except for Rolls Royce. UK made cars are right hook, US roads are left hook, the insurance to drive UK cars is higher. BTW, Need for Speed latest had a UK Ford Escort MK 1 in it..... I know the guy who did the original restoration job to make it drivable before the movies made it. There is a large Ford factory in the UK. Well versed Brits order their Fords with a trailer coupling - because those are all made in Belgium!
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2015 15:37:49 GMT
UK made cars are right hook, US roads are left hook, the insurance to drive UK cars is higher. BTW, Need for Speed latest had a UK Ford Escort MK 1 in it..... I know the guy who did the original restoration job to make it drivable before the movies made it. There is a large Ford factory in the UK. Well versed Brits order their Fords with a trailer coupling - because those are all made in Belgium! There is also a large Ford factory in Mexico. Well versed yanks realize most Fords sold in America are made there.
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2015 15:41:58 GMT
not quite so far off topic: I recall something about trailer brakes in Europe operating by pressure against the hitch? in the US, most trailers with brakes are operated by a controller in the tow vehicle, whether air/hydraulic on many trailers towed by a truck, or electric on trailers towed by a pickup or passenger vehicle. we do have the self-actuated hydraulic brakes on trailers here, but most of them are rental trailers, where the rental yard can't count on the tow vehicle being fitted with a compatible brake controller.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 19, 2015 17:01:00 GMT
not quite so far off topic: I recall something about trailer brakes in Europe operating by pressure against the hitch? in the US, most trailers with brakes are operated by a controller in the tow vehicle, whether air/hydraulic on many trailers towed by a truck, or electric on trailers towed by a pickup or passenger vehicle. we do have the self-actuated hydraulic brakes on trailers here, but most of them are rental trailers, where the rental yard can't count on the tow vehicle being fitted with a compatible brake controller. Most smaller trailers that I've seen with brakes use surge brakes. My boat trailer has that setup. It works fairly well and is self regulating. The harder you stop, the more trailer brake that is applied. The real only negative thing about it is you have to get out and disable it before backing up. It's a real pain because every time you pull forward, the hitch cancels the override and you have to get out and set it again. I rigged a small latch that keeps it disabled until I manually set it again. The only problem with that is it's easy to forget and then you have no trailer brakes.
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Post by c64 on Jul 19, 2015 19:13:46 GMT
not quite so far off topic: I recall something about trailer brakes in Europe operating by pressure against the hitch? in the US, most trailers with brakes are operated by a controller in the tow vehicle, whether air/hydraulic on many trailers towed by a truck, or electric on trailers towed by a pickup or passenger vehicle. we do have the self-actuated hydraulic brakes on trailers here, but most of them are rental trailers, where the rental yard can't count on the tow vehicle being fitted with a compatible brake controller. Most smaller trailers that I've seen with brakes use surge brakes. My boat trailer has that setup. It works fairly well and is self regulating. The harder you stop, the more trailer brake that is applied. The real only negative thing about it is you have to get out and disable it before backing up. It's a real pain because every time you pull forward, the hitch cancels the override and you have to get out and set it again. I rigged a small latch that keeps it disabled until I manually set it again. The only problem with that is it's easy to forget and then you have no trailer brakes. Depends on the vehicle class. Small trailers are usually not braked, a few 100 kg in total and the tow vehicle must be a lot heavier than the trailer. The legal maximum weight of the trailer is set in the cars documents. Larger trailers must be braked and can have a weight up to the tow vehicles maximum weight. The usual method is a spring in the drawbar. When compressed, pulleys activate the brakes in the wheels. As Greg had mentioned, you need to lock the brake before you can push the trailer in reverse. Since the mid 1990s, most trailer have an automatic. There is some kind of hydraulic shock absorber instead of the spring. The brakes ignores forces which build up steadly so you are even able to push a trailer up and downhill as long as you do it nice and steady. Semi trucks and real large trailers use active brakes, usually using compressed air. All modern trailers use ABS/ESP nowadays
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2015 21:41:43 GMT
the surge brake equipped trailers I have seen have a braking threshold which allows you to push the trailer as long as you are gentle about it.
I can see a boat trailer having hydraulic brakes, since an electric braked trailer has the electrics at the wheels, which can get wet on a larger boat trailer.
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Post by c64 on Jul 19, 2015 22:05:44 GMT
the surge brake equipped trailers I have seen have a braking threshold which allows you to push the trailer as long as you are gentle about it. I can see a boat trailer having hydraulic brakes, since an electric braked trailer has the electrics at the wheels, which can get wet on a larger boat trailer. They all have a threshold. With the automatic, you can push a trailer up a hill without any problems. Of course it will brake if the force becomes too great
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2015 22:18:55 GMT
the surge brake equipped trailers I have seen have a braking threshold which allows you to push the trailer as long as you are gentle about it. I can see a boat trailer having hydraulic brakes, since an electric braked trailer has the electrics at the wheels, which can get wet on a larger boat trailer. They all have a threshold. With the automatic, you can push a trailer up a hill without any problems. Of course it will brake if the force becomes too great but it sounds like the threshold on Greg's boat trailer is WAY too low. I have a brake controller in my truck - it has an inertial mechanism inside that applies braking force if it senses the tow vehicle decelerating, while the brake lights are on. not quite as good as the older models that are directly connected to the vehicle brake lines and apply the electric brakes in proportion to how hard you are pressing the brake pedal, but I have three adjustments: one to compensate for the controller being off level, one to make it brake more aggressively, and one that allows me to leave it set for the trailer I tow most often, but boost the aggressiveness of the trailer brakes by one of three increments to adjust for loading. it also has a manual trigger I can press if, for some reason, I want to use ONLY the trailer brakes. (which I normally only use to test the brakes and make sure they are working)
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 19, 2015 23:14:39 GMT
They all have a threshold. With the automatic, you can push a trailer up a hill without any problems. Of course it will brake if the force becomes too great but it sounds like the threshold on Greg's boat trailer is WAY too low. I have a brake controller in my truck - it has an inertial mechanism inside that applies braking force if it senses the tow vehicle decelerating, while the brake lights are on. not quite as good as the older models that are directly connected to the vehicle brake lines and apply the electric brakes in proportion to how hard you are pressing the brake pedal, but I have three adjustments: one to compensate for the controller being off level, one to make it brake more aggressively, and one that allows me to leave it set for the trailer I tow most often, but boost the aggressiveness of the trailer brakes by one of three increments to adjust for loading. it also has a manual trigger I can press if, for some reason, I want to use ONLY the trailer brakes. (which I normally only use to test the brakes and make sure they are working) With my boat trailer, you can usually back up OK on level pavement, but on grass, the brakes start to bind and then the trailer gets harder to push which makes the brakes bind more and on it goes. There is a small lever that locks the master cylinder in the hitch but it automatically releases as soon as you pull forward. I think the reason it's so hard to push on grass is the boat's pretty much at the limit of what you want to put on a single axle trailer. It really should be a tandem.
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Post by the light works on Jul 19, 2015 23:38:08 GMT
but it sounds like the threshold on Greg's boat trailer is WAY too low. I have a brake controller in my truck - it has an inertial mechanism inside that applies braking force if it senses the tow vehicle decelerating, while the brake lights are on. not quite as good as the older models that are directly connected to the vehicle brake lines and apply the electric brakes in proportion to how hard you are pressing the brake pedal, but I have three adjustments: one to compensate for the controller being off level, one to make it brake more aggressively, and one that allows me to leave it set for the trailer I tow most often, but boost the aggressiveness of the trailer brakes by one of three increments to adjust for loading. it also has a manual trigger I can press if, for some reason, I want to use ONLY the trailer brakes. (which I normally only use to test the brakes and make sure they are working) With my boat trailer, you can usually back up OK on level pavement, but on grass, the brakes start to bind and then the trailer gets harder to push which makes the brakes bind more and on it goes. There is a small lever that locks the master cylinder in the hitch but it automatically releases as soon as you pull forward. I think the reason it's so hard to push on grass is the boat's pretty much at the limit of what you want to put on a single axle trailer. It really should be a tandem. the soft terrain problem.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 19, 2015 23:59:12 GMT
not quite so far off topic: I recall something about trailer brakes in Europe operating by pressure against the hitch? in the US, most trailers with brakes are operated by a controller in the tow vehicle, whether air/hydraulic on many trailers towed by a truck, or electric on trailers towed by a pickup or passenger vehicle. we do have the self-actuated hydraulic brakes on trailers here, but most of them are rental trailers, where the rental yard can't count on the tow vehicle being fitted with a compatible brake controller. I've never heard of the system c64 mentions where you need to lock the brakes before you can push it in reverse. When we're strictly talking trailers that can be attatched to smaller vehicles, our law states that as soon as the trailer's legal maximum weight limit exceeds 750 kg it must have its own set of brakes. Whether it's loaded with 750+ kg or not is irrelevant. It's how much you're legally allowed to have on the trailer that determines whether the brakes have to be there, not what you actually have on the trailer right here and now. That system (here in Denmark at least) is comprised of the spring in the drawbar that c64 mentions, which activates the brakes on the trailer when the vehicle brakes, and an emergency brake that's simply a wire you wrap around your hitch and secure with a carabiner, which activates the brakes if the trailer falls off the hitch.
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Post by the light works on Jul 20, 2015 2:20:12 GMT
not quite so far off topic: I recall something about trailer brakes in Europe operating by pressure against the hitch? in the US, most trailers with brakes are operated by a controller in the tow vehicle, whether air/hydraulic on many trailers towed by a truck, or electric on trailers towed by a pickup or passenger vehicle. we do have the self-actuated hydraulic brakes on trailers here, but most of them are rental trailers, where the rental yard can't count on the tow vehicle being fitted with a compatible brake controller. I've never heard of the system c64 mentions where you need to lock the brakes before you can push it in reverse. When we're strictly talking trailers that can be attatched to smaller vehicles, our law states that as soon as the trailer's legal maximum weight limit exceeds 750 kg it must have its own set of brakes. Whether it's loaded with 750+ kg or not is irrelevant. It's how much you're legally allowed to have on the trailer that determines whether the brakes have to be there, not what you actually have on the trailer right here and now. That system (here in Denmark at least) is comprised of the spring in the drawbar that c64 mentions, which activates the brakes on the trailer when the vehicle brakes, and an emergency brake that's simply a wire you wrap around your hitch and secure with a carabiner, which activates the brakes if the trailer falls off the hitch. what C64 is referring to is a means of mechanically disabling the brakes if you have to back the trailer uphill, or something like that.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 20, 2015 9:33:22 GMT
I've never heard of the system c64 mentions where you need to lock the brakes before you can push it in reverse. When we're strictly talking trailers that can be attatched to smaller vehicles, our law states that as soon as the trailer's legal maximum weight limit exceeds 750 kg it must have its own set of brakes. Whether it's loaded with 750+ kg or not is irrelevant. It's how much you're legally allowed to have on the trailer that determines whether the brakes have to be there, not what you actually have on the trailer right here and now. That system (here in Denmark at least) is comprised of the spring in the drawbar that c64 mentions, which activates the brakes on the trailer when the vehicle brakes, and an emergency brake that's simply a wire you wrap around your hitch and secure with a carabiner, which activates the brakes if the trailer falls off the hitch. what C64 is referring to is a means of mechanically disabling the brakes if you have to back the trailer uphill, or something like that. Its quite common, my Father mentioned it a few times in Caravans, so I knew to check before I ever tried to back one up. There is a small lever alongside the trailer handbrake that can lock the brakes on or off.(On some) In its most basic form, The trailer hitch has a (heavy) spring mounted floating draw bar that when compressed pulls a handbrake type wire to engage the trailer brakes. It can be adjusted to suit. In a more complicated form, I have seen systems where that is hydraulic, I have even seen systems that know when the brake lights are on. They are all a PITA when you need to reverse, except the one that "senses" lights, and if the cars Reverse lights are on, it disengages the braking system... I have had trailers on heavy goods where the brakes in reverse are a PITA, as soon as you touch the brakes, they lock up. I am led to believe thats because the brake pads were not "chamfered" correctly, and just "Grab" when the wheel is in reverse?.. Either way, having to reverse two foot at a time and have to stop and start again, doesnt make the day go smooth. I would have one particular drop I know where the unload is a half mile (nearly) reverse down a narrow lane with zero visibility as you mirrors are "in the bushes"....
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Post by c64 on Jul 20, 2015 13:20:18 GMT
what C64 is referring to is a means of mechanically disabling the brakes if you have to back the trailer uphill, or something like that. Its quite common, my Father mentioned it a few times in Caravans, so I knew to check before I ever tried to back one up. There is a small lever alongside the trailer handbrake that can lock the brakes on or off.(On some) In its most basic form, The trailer hitch has a (heavy) spring mounted floating draw bar that when compressed pulls a handbrake type wire to engage the trailer brakes. It can be adjusted to suit. In a more complicated form, I have seen systems where that is hydraulic, I have even seen systems that know when the brake lights are on. They are all a PITA when you need to reverse, except the one that "senses" lights, and if the cars Reverse lights are on, it disengages the braking system... I have had trailers on heavy goods where the brakes in reverse are a PITA, as soon as you touch the brakes, they lock up. I am led to believe thats because the brake pads were not "chamfered" correctly, and just "Grab" when the wheel is in reverse?.. Either way, having to reverse two foot at a time and have to stop and start again, doesnt make the day go smooth. I would have one particular drop I know where the unload is a half mile (nearly) reverse down a narrow lane with zero visibility as you mirrors are "in the bushes".... The old ones have a knob you press in and it pops out the moment the trailer is pulled - or bumps over something. The modern ones almost all have the automatic. The system is fully passive, active braking systems count as not present by EU standards since they could fail. The only trailers with electric controllers are for semi trucks. The driver can always override them with the park brake which simulates a "loss of blue" (blue pressure hose) which locks the trailer brakes mechanically for sure. The common "automatic" braked trailers for cars can be backed up just fine over uneven terrain as long as you keep the movements smooth and steady. Small bumps as on grass are no problem, you can even push a trailer up and down ramps without stopping or setting the manual brake override every few inches. What is really annoying are the passive farming trailers with the wheels on the corners. When the drawbar of the boogie points down, the brake is engaged. So when the trailer bolt breaks, the trailer will emergency brake. Pushing one of those onto a down ramp makes them also brake and lock in place. Then you can't even pull them up again any more! Then you need to disassemble a part of the brake system to solve this situation. You should add a second tractor to secure the now unbraked trailer or the whole yoke runs over you while you are still under it removing the master brake linkage. Car trailers don't have this feature. Instead there is a steel cable with a loop you put over the trailer hook. When the trailer gets lost, the cable is pulled taunt which in turn pulls on the park brake lever of the trailer. Once I have seen what happens if the trailer gets lost. A friend called me, he needs me with my car and my big trailer, he had an accident with his trailer and needs to recover his load. When I had arrived at the scene, this was priceless. An intersection at the foot of a tall hill, debris (fire wood) everywhere, an upside down trailer, police cars with strobes and a large mortuary van. My friend had failed to properly arrest the trailer coupling which came loose driving downhill. When he turned right on the intersection with great speed, the trailer decided to go straight over the intersection. But the safety wire yanked it to the side and locked its brakes so it rolled over its side littering the area with fire wood. He had borrowed the trailer from a neighbour and the only vehicle which could pull a trailer was his van - and he is an undertaker
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Post by the light works on Jul 20, 2015 14:05:58 GMT
our electric brake trailers are supposed to carry an onboard battery - if the trailer decouples the safety lanyard pulls a pin, which allows the battery to short to the brakes. on a surge brake trailer the safety lanyard pulls a shoe out, which holds tension on a heavy spring which slams the piston of the surge brake closed.
the basic principle of the system is witn ah electric brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch ball, the double safety chains will still keep it under control and between the tension on the chains and the brakes, you can still bring it to a controlled stop. the emergency brake only comes into play if both safety chains also break. of course, with a surge brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch, you are out of luck, for brakes, unless it trips the E-brake, in which case you are out of luck for moving it again without big tools.
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Post by the light works on Jul 20, 2015 14:10:33 GMT
what C64 is referring to is a means of mechanically disabling the brakes if you have to back the trailer uphill, or something like that. Its quite common, my Father mentioned it a few times in Caravans, so I knew to check before I ever tried to back one up. There is a small lever alongside the trailer handbrake that can lock the brakes on or off.(On some) In its most basic form, The trailer hitch has a (heavy) spring mounted floating draw bar that when compressed pulls a handbrake type wire to engage the trailer brakes. It can be adjusted to suit. In a more complicated form, I have seen systems where that is hydraulic, I have even seen systems that know when the brake lights are on. They are all a PITA when you need to reverse, except the one that "senses" lights, and if the cars Reverse lights are on, it disengages the braking system... I have had trailers on heavy goods where the brakes in reverse are a PITA, as soon as you touch the brakes, they lock up. I am led to believe thats because the brake pads were not "chamfered" correctly, and just "Grab" when the wheel is in reverse?.. Either way, having to reverse two foot at a time and have to stop and start again, doesnt make the day go smooth. I would have one particular drop I know where the unload is a half mile (nearly) reverse down a narrow lane with zero visibility as you mirrors are "in the bushes".... our department SOG is if the brush hits the mirrors, we don't go any further, unless we KNOW there is a turnaround at the other end that will accommodate us. backing up without being able to use mirrors counts as an unnecessary risk.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 20, 2015 14:25:11 GMT
our electric brake trailers are supposed to carry an onboard battery - if the trailer decouples the safety lanyard pulls a pin, which allows the battery to short to the brakes. on a surge brake trailer the safety lanyard pulls a shoe out, which holds tension on a heavy spring which slams the piston of the surge brake closed. the basic principle of the system is witn ah electric brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch ball, the double safety chains will still keep it under control and between the tension on the chains and the brakes, you can still bring it to a controlled stop. the emergency brake only comes into play if both safety chains also break. of course, with a surge brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch, you are out of luck, for brakes, unless it trips the E-brake, in which case you are out of luck for moving it again without big tools. The hydraulic surge brake on my boat trailer has a small steel cable that activates the brakes if both the ball and safety chains become disconnected. It's a one shot deal as the cable gets ripped out but you can reset the brakes with just a screwdriver. The cable must then be replace with a new one.
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Post by the light works on Jul 20, 2015 14:43:34 GMT
our electric brake trailers are supposed to carry an onboard battery - if the trailer decouples the safety lanyard pulls a pin, which allows the battery to short to the brakes. on a surge brake trailer the safety lanyard pulls a shoe out, which holds tension on a heavy spring which slams the piston of the surge brake closed. the basic principle of the system is witn ah electric brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch ball, the double safety chains will still keep it under control and between the tension on the chains and the brakes, you can still bring it to a controlled stop. the emergency brake only comes into play if both safety chains also break. of course, with a surge brake trailer, if it comes off the hitch, you are out of luck, for brakes, unless it trips the E-brake, in which case you are out of luck for moving it again without big tools. The hydraulic surge brake on my boat trailer has a small steel cable that activates the brakes if both the ball and safety chains become disconnected. It's a one shot deal as the cable gets ripped out but you can reset the brakes with just a screwdriver. The cable must then be replace with a new one. the ones I have seen use a heavy spring to activate the E-brake, and you have to be able to compress the spring to release the brakes.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 20, 2015 14:59:15 GMT
The hydraulic surge brake on my boat trailer has a small steel cable that activates the brakes if both the ball and safety chains become disconnected. It's a one shot deal as the cable gets ripped out but you can reset the brakes with just a screwdriver. The cable must then be replace with a new one. the ones I have seen use a heavy spring to activate the E-brake, and you have to be able to compress the spring to release the brakes. Well, I've been TOLD it's easy to do. I've never had to do it. Hopefully, I never will.
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Post by the light works on Jul 20, 2015 15:16:55 GMT
the ones I have seen use a heavy spring to activate the E-brake, and you have to be able to compress the spring to release the brakes. Well, I've been TOLD it's easy to do. I've never had to do it. Hopefully, I never will. if you do, it means you've done two things wrong.
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