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Post by the light works on Sept 6, 2015 3:10:28 GMT
Myth 1: dodge a blaster bolt. Myth 2: does holding the high ground make a difference in a lightsaber battle?
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Post by ironhold on Sept 6, 2015 3:16:24 GMT
canon = "kay-nunh".
That being said, I spotted a big flaw with the blaster bolt myth.
In the film, we're looking at people who are young and athletic. Han's probably been dodging blaster fire for some time now, Luke's had to deal with the occasional Jawa, and the Jedi are elite soldiers.
Because of this, perhaps Jaime and Adam should have brought an outside volunteer to test this, someone who is, shall we say, in better overall physical condition. After all, if Adam came close to dodging the blasts on the "raise & fire" portion, then perhaps someone a little faster - like Colby - could have succeeded.
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Post by the light works on Sept 6, 2015 3:35:22 GMT
bonus myth: blocking with a lightsaber.
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Post by the light works on Sept 6, 2015 3:42:51 GMT
I find I had more issues with the mechanics than the results - I'll elaborate after I've has some sleep. been a long day.
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Post by the light works on Sept 6, 2015 13:53:41 GMT
Okay, dodging blaster bolts - every time Adam said "laser blaster" I had to grit my teeth. what is canon in the Star Wars universe is that they are called Blasters, and the blaster beam is an energy burst, NOT a laser - though it uses a laser as a waveguide for the energy burst. the closest comparison to something common in our universe would be a plasma burst. and that said, it comes down more to dodging the shooter than the blaster bolt at that range. also, I would really like them to have phrased it in therms of feet per second, as that is the standard measure of projectile velocity - then those of us who have done other projectile based sports would have a frame of reference. (130 MPH = about 190 FPS) for comparison a "Splatmaster" - the original paintball pistol - fires at 260 FPS.
lightsaber high ground. I can't fault their using equally matched swordsmen for the tests. However, that is the only example in the star wars universe where there is any hint that terrain is a factor. It seemed to me like they had to dig pretty hard to find ANYTHING they could do as a lightsaber myth. In regards to the phrase itself, perhaps Obi Wan was speaking metaphorically as well as tactically; simply referring to the fact that he had both a moral AND tactical advantage - remembering that Obi Wan was on land, while Anakin was on a malfuntioning hovering platform, and Anakin had to make a jump to get to ground, which left him unable to control his position while approaching Obi Wan; and at the same time, Anakin had just assaulted his wife, and murdered the order that trained him.
deflecting blaster bolts with a lightsaber: it looked to me a lot more like there were some cases where they accidentally shot the guy in the lightsaber, but as a proof of concept, one must remember that Jedi used the force to anticipate where to block.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Sept 6, 2015 15:39:07 GMT
I never bothered to watch the third prequel movie, but from the clip they used is it possible that Obi-wan was trying to annoy Anakin into making a mistake Obi-wan could take advantage of? It's a perfectly valid combat technique.
I'd gotten the impression that the guys were going to see if stormtrooper armor was related in some way to stormtrooper lousy marksmanship (either the helmet interfering with their view or the armor itself limiting arm movement). Did something get cut from the finished episode, or were the preview articles wrong?
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Post by the light works on Sept 6, 2015 15:47:21 GMT
I never bothered to watch the third prequel movie, but from the clip they used is it possible that Obi-wan was trying to annoy Anakin into making a mistake Obi-wan could take advantage of? It's a perfectly valid combat technique. I'd gotten the impression that the guys were going to see if stormtrooper armor was related in some way to stormtrooper lousy marksmanship (either the helmet interfering with their view or the armor itself limiting arm movement). Did something get cut from the finished episode, or were the preview articles wrong? from the context of the movie, I do not believe the intent was to portray Obi Wan as goading Anakin into a mistake. up until the actual moment when he picked up the lightsaber and left Anakin for dead, his actions were consistent with believing Anakin might still listen to reason. I also would have expected the myth to be about marksmanship.
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Post by breesfan on Sept 6, 2015 18:59:09 GMT
This episode just was not that interesting. I liked what Adam made for him and Jamie as to the clothing and thought it was cool.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 7, 2015 8:32:33 GMT
Swords and High ground... If its a heavy sword and you have to lift it, having a height advantage is less tiring. But... You would need to be using the two-handed heavy battle swords to make that all that true.
Having a height advantage makes a lot of difference when moving, you have easier access to other advantageous points, climbing over stuff whilst fighting is tiring.
Dodge a blaster bolt.... Well.... just a question, even if its "plasma", whats the speed of one of them, because I kind of thought it would be "Light"....
If you can pre-judge the shooters intention, and get a move on before they pulls a trigger, possible.... But once that "bolt" is on the way, presuming the plasma is an UPGRADE to lead weapons, I would have though the speed of the bolt is faster than a Lead bullet, just easier to see... same as like trying to watch tracer, yes you can see it better, but it doesnt slow it down does it?..
Jamie has dodged a Paint-ball round in the past, but wasnt part of that him being able to judge Adams intentions?...{Or was that the other way around?..}
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Post by Antigone68104 on Sept 7, 2015 11:37:13 GMT
The paintball dodging tests were simulating a sniper (using ammo with an implausibly bright flash), so Jamie had more time to dodge. The firefights on the Death Star that provided the clips were at much closer range.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 7, 2015 21:21:03 GMT
The height advantage for melee weapons on a field of battle is about an opponent getting tired out trying to get to you, and/or the advantage of being able to charge downhill at him. You do gain an advantage if you are using a longer weapon such as a pike, since it is considerably harder for an opponent to rush past the tip of your weapon to get inside your defense.
I'd suspect that Obi-Wan's comment to Anakin in the film was more to do with knowing that Anakin had to jump onto solid land, and Obi's position meant he could not do that without leaving himself open to attack.
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Post by blazerrose on Sept 8, 2015 2:52:34 GMT
I liked all the behind-the-scenes parts about building the light sabres and the copper suit, and I appreciate this season's return to the narrative of the build process. The myths themselves weren't that compelling, but watching Adam and Jamie duke it out was certainly entertaining.
As for the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight, I took that scene metaphorically. Obi-Wan was staying true to the Jedi code and remaining good, thus taking the moral high ground. Essentially he was telling Anakin that evil will never prevail, and as Episode 6 bore out, we see that that was true. Or am I giving Lucas too much credit?
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2015 3:09:39 GMT
I liked all the behind-the-scenes parts about building the light sabres and the copper suit, and I appreciate this season's return to the narrative of the build process. The myths themselves weren't that compelling, but watching Adam and Jamie duke it out was certainly entertaining. As for the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight, I took that scene metaphorically. Obi-Wan was staying true to the Jedi code and remaining good, thus taking the moral high ground. Essentially he was telling Anakin that evil will never prevail, and as Episode 6 bore out, we see that that was true. Or am I giving Lucas too much credit? I personally felt that despite JarJar being annoying - and remember there was an annoying character in episodes IV-VI as well - the storytelling was relatively well put together. Obi Wan could well have been speaking metaphorically.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 8, 2015 6:15:26 GMT
But there is no good or bad in "the force". Its how you use it. Magic and how you use it has always been the same, its down to the person, if that person is good, so is "the majik", as the magic doesnt know the difference?....
So if you use your powers for good, more people "Like" you, so it goes further without opposition...?.. Therefore, the opposition being the good guys, its only natural that good will always triumph over evil eventually.
"Moral high ground".... Thats fr those who believe they have a "side" to fight on, and believe their side is the one with the greatest support. As in, can and will be used by either side. I am sure Darth Vader believed he was working "For the greater good"... if you see what I mean?... Semantics shemantics already, have some chicken soup.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 8, 2015 7:03:25 GMT
Even though I was dreading this, beacause I'm not at all into Star Wars, I have to admit I had fun watching it. Part of it was certainly seeing the build process, as blazerrose points out. That's been a high point for me all season. But also, there was just a lot of good humor in this episode Adam's lightsaber rig was beautifully made and with a little refinement, I could actually see that having commercial success along the same lines as something like laser tag. It just looks like fun! I can't speak on all the nerdy Star Wars canon stuff, but from where I'm sitting, not knowing much about any of the characters or how "the Force" works, both myths were well and truly busted. I will agree with TLW that they could have measured the speed in FPS instead of MPH in the blaster myth, since that's a reference most people who have worked with anything like paintball or airsoft guns will get, but it's really a minor thing. It didn't have any effects on the final results. As for Ironhold's contention that maybe a fitter, younger person would have done better, I was thinking the same thing, right up until their sword fighting expert tried deflecting "blasts" with his sword and got hit as well. I don't think it would have made that much of a difference, so I'm ultimately pretty satisfied with the methodology and results.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 8, 2015 10:40:16 GMT
The rig Adam created is actually the DIY version of the system used in professional fencing to indicate when a hit is scored. (In professional fencing the blades move so quickly it is next to impossible to judge if someone has made contact with the naked eye)
You can buy such scoring equipment for yourself, although you still need the blades and costume too go with it. A rough estimate would be that the full kit for two people would probably set you back some £1000-1500. This would explain one of two reasons Adam made a rig for them, as I doubt they spent more than £200 on that rig.
The other reason would be that traditional fencing swords would be far to dangerous for them to have used. People can and have been seriously injured and even killed by fencing blades in professional matches.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 8, 2015 11:06:47 GMT
The rig Adam created is actually the DIY version of the system used in professional fencing to indicate when a hit is scored. (In professional fencing the blades move so quickly it is next to impossible to judge if someone has made contact with the naked eye) You can buy such scoring equipment for yourself, although you still need the blades and costume too go with it. A rough estimate would be that the full kit for two people would probably set you back some £1000-1500. This would explain one of two reasons Adam made a rig for them, as I doubt they spent more than £200 on that rig. The other reason would be that traditional fencing swords would be far to dangerous for them to have used. People can and have been seriously injured and even killed by fencing blades in professional matches. Exactly. Fencing blades can be dangerous. What Adam made wasn't. That's why it would make a good "plaything". And his rig being less expensive doesn't hurt either. Just makes it that much easier to mass produce and actually create a profit from, since buying 15 minutes worth of sword fighting fun wouldn't cost people an arm and a leg - pun VERY much intended
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2015 13:49:41 GMT
The rig Adam created is actually the DIY version of the system used in professional fencing to indicate when a hit is scored. (In professional fencing the blades move so quickly it is next to impossible to judge if someone has made contact with the naked eye) You can buy such scoring equipment for yourself, although you still need the blades and costume too go with it. A rough estimate would be that the full kit for two people would probably set you back some £1000-1500. This would explain one of two reasons Adam made a rig for them, as I doubt they spent more than £200 on that rig. The other reason would be that traditional fencing swords would be far to dangerous for them to have used. People can and have been seriously injured and even killed by fencing blades in professional matches. Exactly. Fencing blades can be dangerous. What Adam made wasn't. That's why it would make a good "plaything". And his rig being less expensive doesn't hurt either. Just makes it that much easier to mass produce and actually create a profit from, since buying 15 minutes worth of sword fighting fun wouldn't cost people an arm and a leg - pun VERY much intended hypothetically, if I were to make a rig like that as a rich kids' toy (read: grown-ups) I would want to find a way to make it self contained - which with modern electronics should be doable. you would basically be making the belt a capacitive contact sensor, the suit the antenna, and the saber a coded probe. one could even have a rig for the belts to talk to each other, so you could have either first touch always wins, or near simultaneous touches are a do-over.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 8, 2015 14:02:15 GMT
You can buy wireless detectors already.
Note; The cost I gave was an estimate for the entire set up, including outfit, swords and the electronics.
I suspect that the cost of such a 'play' system would be in the $500 range, since you'd have to modify the design and build to be as durable as possible. The rig they built here was only intended to be used once, and they were not trying to belt each other as hard as possible.
Trivia; The basic 'lightsaber' Adam built, a metal hand grip with a plastic/carbon-fiber 'blade', is actually a duplicate of the original design of the sabres for the prequel films. However they quickly discovered that the blades kept snapping or shattering during the fight. So they ended up using aluminum 'blades'. These were bent very quickly during the fights, but could be replaced quickly and easily and there was no risk of them snapping and leaving a sharp jagged edge that could seriously injure any of the actors.
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2015 14:17:57 GMT
You can buy wireless detectors already. Note; The cost I gave was an estimate for the entire set up, including outfit, swords and the electronics. I suspect that the cost of such a 'play' system would be in the $500 range, since you'd have to modify the design and build to be as durable as possible. The rig they built here was only intended to be used once, and they were not trying to belt each other as hard as possible. Trivia; The basic 'lightsaber' Adam built, a metal hand grip with a plastic/carbon-fiber 'blade', is actually a duplicate of the original design of the sabres for the prequel films. However they quickly discovered that the blades kept snapping or shattering during the fight. So they ended up using aluminum 'blades'. These were bent very quickly during the fights, but could be replaced quickly and easily and there was no risk of them snapping and leaving a sharp jagged edge that could seriously injure any of the actors. I figured the technology existed and would just need to be adapted. I don't know if the professional systems are already wireless. as for the "hero" blades, I would have been inclined to try a polycarbonate tube, possibly wrapped with poly tape to prevent shrapnel if there was a break. but perhaps that was also tried and rejected. a bit of trivia: nearly all the actors who played lightsaber related roles made lightsaber noises the first time they played with their sabers.
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