|
Post by the light works on Dec 26, 2015 8:55:26 GMT
Well, the rest of Christmas day went as I expected.... We went to the club for a couple of Xmas drinks before we kicked off dinner, so had all the prep woirk done at home before we went, and the beef was in on a low light cooking slowly. We do that because knife skills when you have a few Guinness inside you are a likkle rusty to say the least... Anyway, we stayed ah hour or two, the place was FULL, it was one of the busiest days I have seen on a non event day, so both of us were helping behind the bar as it was all hands to the pumps... all of the bar-staff were helping out.... We had fun, LOTS of fun, then went home to get dinner, which was perfect as it could be. It is 'law' here that unless you are paying double, it cant be scheduled as a normal working day. So thats either double time, or time and a half at least, or a day off in leu.... Unless that is its public service such as emergency services hospitals care homes or the like, where you need 24hr 365 day coverage. here, they even have workarounds for the 40 hour work week. jut hire them in two different positions and work them 30 hours per position.
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Dec 26, 2015 9:49:43 GMT
Here the work I do is self-governed in that I MUST carry at all times the past 1 month records of work done whilst driving, either electronic card tacho or paper tacho(graph), and I must stick to the law, and not drive commercially in any other vehicle that doesnt have tacho. (Small vans etc...) I must carry those records for toadside [roadside?} inspections, what the USA call a log-book.
So if I have more than one job, I cannot do more hours in the same way as you describe... If I have done 30 hrs for one firm, that counts towards my rolling week 13 day limit of hours, and on the 14th day, I must NOT work at all. Even if I have not done my full hours, if I have worked 13 days, even if thats a day or two with only 1 hrs work, I must take at least 1X 24hr complete break every two weeks.
Again another reason I like driving... There is no "Just this once" for going beyond the acceptable. If I have done a 12 hr stint driving, I am now out of hours for that day, if I then get out in a small van, I am breaking the law. I am allowed to drive NON commercial, as in, go home, and thats all. I am also allowed to drive bob-tail solo to get home in the wagon if that is the only transport I have. Or completely empty solid (Not articulated or "semi" type vehicle)
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 26, 2015 14:09:15 GMT
Here the work I do is self-governed in that I MUST carry at all times the past 1 month records of work done whilst driving, either electronic card tacho or paper tacho(graph), and I must stick to the law, and not drive commercially in any other vehicle that doesnt have tacho. (Small vans etc...) I must carry those records for toadside [roadside?} inspections, what the USA call a log-book. So if I have more than one job, I cannot do more hours in the same way as you describe... If I have done 30 hrs for one firm, that counts towards my rolling week 13 day limit of hours, and on the 14th day, I must NOT work at all. Even if I have not done my full hours, if I have worked 13 days, even if thats a day or two with only 1 hrs work, I must take at least 1X 24hr complete break every two weeks. Again another reason I like driving... There is no "Just this once" for going beyond the acceptable. If I have done a 12 hr stint driving, I am now out of hours for that day, if I then get out in a small van, I am breaking the law. I am allowed to drive NON commercial, as in, go home, and thats all. I am also allowed to drive bob-tail solo to get home in the wagon if that is the only transport I have. Or completely empty solid (Not articulated or "semi" type vehicle) I am not sure they will allow driving the truck home if it is a company truck. it is a department of transportation safety rule rather than a labor law. they tend to be less casual about loopholes. otherwise there would be companies that schedule a driver for a 7 hour run, and tell them the last 2 hours return is going home.
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Dec 27, 2015 11:24:28 GMT
"Home" is what you call where you live, home base is not. If you own the company truck, after dropping your last load, you can go home to where you live, as long as there are no other commercial stops on the way.... up to a certain limit... last drop in Ottawa and living in Texas is taking the pizza...?...
Yes there will always be people driving dirty, but its against the law to schedule someone to drive "home" from a drop 200 mile away, home is considered the distance from the depot to where you live and not much else. Maybe a stop for a bag of chips(fries) and a single sausage?...
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2015 14:59:12 GMT
"Home" is what you call where you live, home base is not. If you own the company truck, after dropping your last load, you can go home to where you live, as long as there are no other commercial stops on the way.... up to a certain limit... last drop in Ottawa and living in Texas is taking the pizza...?... Yes there will always be people driving dirty, but its against the law to schedule someone to drive "home" from a drop 200 mile away, home is considered the distance from the depot to where you live and not much else. Maybe a stop for a bag of chips(fries) and a single sausage?... they would have the driver take the truck home, which would also allow them to have a smaller yard. american business is always about ripping off the other guy and passing the savings on to yourself.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 27, 2015 17:27:45 GMT
american business is always about ripping off the other guy and passing the savings on to yourself. I don't know about that. Maybe it's the trade you're in, or you just have a habit of dealing with bad businesses. There certainly are exceptions, but most American businesses I've dealt with are honest and fair. If they are not, they usually aren't in business long enough to matter.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2015 22:18:31 GMT
american business is always about ripping off the other guy and passing the savings on to yourself. I don't know about that. Maybe it's the trade you're in, or you just have a habit of dealing with bad businesses. There certainly are exceptions, but most American businesses I've dealt with are honest and fair. If they are not, they usually aren't in business long enough to matter. I think I'm just more cynical about it than some. I view capitalism as a religion that is based on the worship of profit.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2015 1:02:40 GMT
I don't know about that. Maybe it's the trade you're in, or you just have a habit of dealing with bad businesses. There certainly are exceptions, but most American businesses I've dealt with are honest and fair. If they are not, they usually aren't in business long enough to matter. I think I'm just more cynical about it than some. I view capitalism as a religion that is based on the worship of profit. And I view capitalism as one of the greatest forces for good that man has ever invented. Sure it has some problems, but think of where we'd be without it. Even the poorest amongst us are better of for it. Almost everything you take for granted today is a direct result of capitalism. Our healthcare, transportation, housing, communication, entertainment... everything. And profit? Most capitalists don't worship it as a god. They just view it as the reward for taking risks and overcoming obstacles.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2015 2:59:08 GMT
I think I'm just more cynical about it than some. I view capitalism as a religion that is based on the worship of profit. And I view capitalism as one of the greatest forces for good that man has ever invented. Sure it has some problems, but think of where we'd be without it. Even the poorest amongst us are better of for it. Almost everything you take for granted today is a direct result of capitalism. Our healthcare, transportation, housing, communication, entertainment... everything. And profit? Most capitalists don't worship it as a god. They just view it as the reward for taking risks and overcoming obstacles. risk implies a chance of failure or loss. the modern capitalist does everything in his power to maximize flow of profit while minimizing risk. in fact, he views profit as something he is entitled to, and the possibility of not getting profit as risk. he views employees as obstacles. the rest of us don't take anything for granted - not a roof over our heads, nor food on our table, nor healthcare. I haven't taken healthcare for granted for 7 years, now. if it hadn't been for insurance we would be living in my parents basement and I would be wage slaving again.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2015 3:48:35 GMT
And what would those obstacles be doing if it wasn't for the capitalist paying them good wages to help him hunt down profit?
They would be sitting in their parents basement wage slaving.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2015 4:38:51 GMT
And what would those obstacles be doing if it wasn't for the capitalist paying them good wages to help him hunt down profit? They would be sitting in their parents basement wage slaving. ummm... they ARE in their parents' basements wage slaving. that's what they're complaining about.
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Dec 28, 2015 10:20:08 GMT
"Home" is what you call where you live, home base is not. If you own the company truck, after dropping your last load, you can go home to where you live, as long as there are no other commercial stops on the way.... up to a certain limit... last drop in Ottawa and living in Texas is taking the pizza...?... Yes there will always be people driving dirty, but its against the law to schedule someone to drive "home" from a drop 200 mile away, home is considered the distance from the depot to where you live and not much else. Maybe a stop for a bag of chips(fries) and a single sausage?... they would have the driver take the truck home, which would also allow them to have a smaller yard. american business is always about ripping off the other guy and passing the savings on to yourself. Dependant on where you live.... You have to apply to have larger trucks park up on "private" streets overnight, so unless you have the room, this is not available. I dont, I will never have, and I will not agree to it. However for smaller lighter vans, its also better insurance risk to have each small van outside an employee house where it is being watched rather than all on one big yard thats easier to break into in the dead of the night. Plus, if a driver is returning home, and the van is NOT needed until next morning, why not let them just go home than have to pass that by a 20 mile extra drive just to get to the depot, and then have to drive home after that. Swings and roundabouts, sometimes it better to go home than pass home, sometimes not.
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Dec 28, 2015 10:22:18 GMT
Back when I was doing 18 hr days 7 days a week, I was "Capitalist"... The more I could do to attract profit, the more I enjoyed the take-home pay.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2015 13:29:30 GMT
Back when I was doing 18 hr days 7 days a week, I was "Capitalist"... The more I could do to attract profit, the more I enjoyed the take-home pay. What? You mean you worked and made something of yourself rather than mope in your parent's basement complaining to your friends on the confuser how your employer was mistreating you? The anti-capitalist crowd would insist that you were part of the problem. You should have at least been out picketing how you weren't being given enough free stuff.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2015 15:37:02 GMT
Back when I was doing 18 hr days 7 days a week, I was "Capitalist"... The more I could do to attract profit, the more I enjoyed the take-home pay. yes, and I certainly enjoyed getting $2,000 a week paychecks when I was in a position to get them. it helped offset the fact I spent the next six weeks living in the back of my van (transit) and 6 months of the next year living in my travel trailer, while the Enron executives who had been diddling the energy market were struggling to make it by on a total of 55 million dollars in performance bonuses.
|
|
|
Post by Lokifan on Dec 28, 2015 16:44:00 GMT
risk implies a chance of failure or loss. the modern capitalist does everything in his power to maximize flow of profit while minimizing risk. Doesn't everyone? That's human nature, not capitalism. Again, doesn't everyone? If I work for someone, I want something back. If I give my labor to someone who is unethical or unappreciative, I'm risking not getting something back. There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. No, a capitalist views labor as an expense, just like cost of materials, or taxes, or anything else that isn't profit. I lived without insurance for a time when I left my last corporate gig. I took the risk that if a serious illness or injury hit me or mine in that year, it would ruin me financially, but I had more important things to do with the money in getting started by myself. I got catastrophic insurance as fast as I could, then--I won the bet. If I had lost, well...my folks are dead so I wouldn't have even had a basement to live in. That's risk, my friend. Being a capitalist doesn't automatically grant you success. What it does is grant you the freedom to keep what you (or your employees) earn by doing whatever it is you're good at. As for Enron being an example of capitalism, the only thing they were examples of is criminality. Let's look at the results: 1. Former Chairman and CEO Ken Lay is dead of a heart attack. If he had lived, he'd been convicted of enough crimes to put him away for 45 years in prison, not counting the additional crimes he was scheduled to be tried for at the time of his death. 2. Former CEO/COO Skilling got 24 years plus a $180 million fine. He also has to repay $450 million. 3. CFO Fastow, the guy who cooperated, got 10 years. 4. The NatWest 3 got 37 months in prison. 5. Arthur Andersen, Enron's auditing firm, had it's license to audit revoked after being convicted of destroying documents. This closed the company. There were other convictions of Enron executives, you can look them up. The shareholders and investors in Enron and Arthur Andersen took a bath--they lost their shirts. That's what happens when you invest in crooks and con men; they might have just as well sent their money to that Nigerian prince. That's hardly getting away scot free. Now, let's look the results of the system championed by the definitely not capitalist Hugo Chavez. Guess who the richest woman in Venezuela is? His daughter. Her father is rotting in his much deserved grave, and yet even now no one talks about trying to get any of the $4 billion back from her. Frankly, I don't want that kind of corruption here, even if the corrupt old socialist or Bernie Sanders gets elected. The truth of the matter (as detailed in places like Stanley and Danko's "The Millionaire Next Door" is that fortunes rarely survive three generations: One to make the fortune, one to maintain it, and one to lose it. That's the "creative destruction" of capitalism at work. In the meantime, capitalism works. It's lifted more people out of poverty around the world than any other system. It's so effective that we don't even talk about poverty here much anymore, it's "income inequality", because any objective standard shows the poorest Americans are now much better off than the poorest were a generation ago. And that's even with the various limitations on capitalism placed by the government. In fact, capitalism is killing off poverty around the world.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2015 17:12:21 GMT
risk implies a chance of failure or loss. the modern capitalist does everything in his power to maximize flow of profit while minimizing risk. Doesn't everyone? That's human nature, not capitalism. Again, doesn't everyone? If I work for someone, I want something back. If I give my labor to someone who is unethical or unappreciative, I'm risking not getting something back. There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. No, a capitalist views labor as an expense, just like cost of materials, or taxes, or anything else that isn't profit. I lived without insurance for a time when I left my last corporate gig. I took the risk that if a serious illness or injury hit me or mine in that year, it would ruin me financially, but I had more important things to do with the money in getting started by myself. I got catastrophic insurance as fast as I could, then--I won the bet. If I had lost, well...my folks are dead so I wouldn't have even had a basement to live in. That's risk, my friend. Being a capitalist doesn't automatically grant you success. What it does is grant you the freedom to keep what you (or your employees) earn by doing whatever it is you're good at. As for Enron being an example of capitalism, the only thing they were examples of is criminality. Let's look at the results: 1. Former Chairman and CEO Ken Lay is dead of a heart attack. If he had lived, he'd been convicted of enough crimes to put him away for 45 years in prison, not counting the additional crimes he was scheduled to be tried for at the time of his death. 2. Former CEO/COO Skilling got 24 years plus a $180 million fine. He also has to repay $450 million. 3. CFO Fastow, the guy who cooperated, got 10 years. 4. The NatWest 3 got 37 months in prison. 5. Arthur Andersen, Enron's auditing firm, had it's license to audit revoked after being convicted of destroying documents. This closed the company. There were other convictions of Enron executives, you can look them up. The shareholders and investors in Enron and Arthur Andersen took a bath--they lost their shirts. That's what happens when you invest in crooks and con men; they might have just as well sent their money to that Nigerian prince. That's hardly getting away scot free. Now, let's look the results of the system championed by the definitely not capitalist Hugo Chavez. Guess who the richest woman in Venezuela is? His daughter. Her father is rotting in his much deserved grave, and yet even now no one talks about trying to get any of the $4 billion back from her. Frankly, I don't want that kind of corruption here, even if the corrupt old socialist or Bernie Sanders gets elected. The truth of the matter (as detailed in places like Stanley and Danko's "The Millionaire Next Door" is that fortunes rarely survive three generations: One to make the fortune, one to maintain it, and one to lose it. That's the "creative destruction" of capitalism at work. In the meantime, capitalism works. It's lifted more people out of poverty around the world than any other system. It's so effective that we don't even talk about poverty here much anymore, it's "income inequality", because any objective standard shows the poorest Americans are now much better off than the poorest were a generation ago. And that's even with the various limitations on capitalism placed by the government. In fact, capitalism is killing off poverty around the world. capitalism works because it is a definition of the default socioeconomic model humanity uses in the absence of any other socioeconomic model. the takeaway from enron is that the principals were willing to break the law in order to enable their worship of profit. the inherent flaw in capitalism is that it is subject to abuse if a person manages to develop absolute control over a resource that other people must have in order to survive; or manages to prevent other people from having control over the resources they are dependent on for trade. It is kind of telling that the same people who think a CEO cannot reasonably be expected to report to work for less money in a day than the average working class person takes home in a year. - and these same people think the working class person should be motivated to not only go to work, but to give their employer their best effort.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2015 18:07:06 GMT
Bank robbers, pirates, hostage takers, and druglords all break the law to get what isn't theirs. Are we going to blame that on capitalism to?
And please name one essential commodity that is being held hostage by capitalism? The only thing I can think of is the cost of energy. And that was being inflated by the government, not industry. In fact it was the laws of capitalism that has brought the price down in spite of the governments best efforts to keep it inflated.
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2015 18:38:56 GMT
Bank robbers, pirates, hostage takers, and druglords all break the law to get what isn't theirs. Are we going to blame that on capitalism to? And please name one essential commodity that is being held hostage by capitalism? the common thread is that they are all doing it for profit. as for what is being controlled by a cartel? consider the ongoing erosion of collective bargaining rights for wages and benefits. greed portrays capitalism as the savior of mankind, but the truth is that capitalism only works on a more or less level playing field, and the goal of he greedy is to prevent a level playing field.
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2015 19:09:10 GMT
Bank robbers, pirates, hostage takers, and druglords all break the law to get what isn't theirs. Are we going to blame that on capitalism to? And please name one essential commodity that is being held hostage by capitalism? the common thread is that they are all doing it for profit. as for what is being controlled by a cartel? consider the ongoing erosion of collective bargaining rights for wages and benefits. greed portrays capitalism as the savior of mankind, but the truth is that capitalism only works on a more or less level playing field, and the goal of he greedy is to prevent a level playing field. Greed can portray capitalism any way it wants, but that doesn't mean greed is what capitalism is about. The goal of greed is to make people think others should give them everything they want without doing anything on their part to earn it. Greed makes one think that just because someone else has it, they somehow deserve it. That's not capitalism. And there is no bargaining in collective bargaining. It's collective bullying. We are united and you will pay up or else. That's not bargaining.
|
|