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Post by ironhold on Jun 13, 2018 6:28:48 GMT
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 13, 2018 7:28:27 GMT
Good thing there was an FBI agent with a concealed weapon on the scene to stop the shooter, because guns everywhere makes everyone safer, as long as the carriers have training...
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Post by GTCGreg on Jun 13, 2018 13:17:50 GMT
Good thing there was an FBI agent with a concealed weapon on the scene to stop the shooter, because guns everywhere makes everyone safer, as long as the carriers have training... I agree. Every concealed carry holder should be required to take dancing lessons.
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Post by the light works on Jun 13, 2018 14:14:41 GMT
I hadn't watched the video before, but they showed it on the news when they announced the charges - the gun didn't go off until he grabbed at it, which means two things: first, he was carrying it loaded with the safety off. second, he automatically put his finger inside the trigger guard when he grabbed at it. sounds like if his career survives this he needs to at minimum repeat all of his firearms qualification courses.
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Post by ponytail61 on Jun 13, 2018 23:50:58 GMT
I hadn't watched the video before, but they showed it on the news when they announced the charges - the gun didn't go off until he grabbed at it, which means two things: first, he was carrying it loaded with the safety off. second, he automatically put his finger inside the trigger guard when he grabbed at it. sounds like if his career survives this he needs to at minimum repeat all of his firearms qualification courses. If it was his service weapon, it was a Glock, which only has the trigger safety. Once something gets inside the trigger guard the safety is off, be it a finger or a jacket draw string. There have been a few cases of the of LEO's shooting themselves because the adjuster on their jacket drawstring slipped into the holster and they didn't clear it first
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Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2018 3:49:53 GMT
I hadn't watched the video before, but they showed it on the news when they announced the charges - the gun didn't go off until he grabbed at it, which means two things: first, he was carrying it loaded with the safety off. second, he automatically put his finger inside the trigger guard when he grabbed at it. sounds like if his career survives this he needs to at minimum repeat all of his firearms qualification courses. If it was his service weapon, it was a Glock, which only has the trigger safety. Once something gets inside the trigger guard the safety is off, be it a finger or a jacket draw string. There have been a few cases of the of LEO's shooting themselves because the adjuster on their jacket drawstring slipped into the holster and they didn't clear it first well, that's a bit of a design flaw. the safety is there to prevent an accidental trigger pull from firing the weapon.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 14, 2018 6:08:53 GMT
If you ask me, Glocks are nothing but one big design flaw.
The trigger safety is too easy to disengage by accident and the trigger itself on some models is too sensitive. That combination has led to a lot of accidental discharges, even among extremely well trained professionals. Besides that, most models are backheavy, meaning the gun doesn't naturally fall back into alignment with the target after a shot. You have to make a much bigger conscious effort to adjust after the recoil to get back on target than with something like a Beretta 92F, a Sig P226 or an HK USP.
The Danish Army and Air Force just went through the process of acquiring new service pistols. The politicians on the committee wanted Glock to be in the mix*, but due to heavy protests from our two special forces units, it didn't even make it into the intial testing round. They've had Glock 17s, 20s and 26s on trial in their arsenals before and found all three models lacking on all but one parameter, which was water resistance. For a long time, they begrudgingly used them when making infiltrations from the water because no other manufacturers had managed to make their sidearms as reliable in wet conditions, but as soon as HK and SIG caught up, the Glocks were locked away and haven't been in use since 2005.
*Probably because they knew it from TV and movies and thought it "looked cool". It wouldn't be the first time they bought things for the armed forces using that reasoning. The Home Guard was once handed M203 grenade launchers to stick under their M16 rifles. Unlike the US National Guard, the Danish Home Guard is not supposed to be deployable in combat operations abroad. As the name implies, their main job is to defend our own country. If the powers that be had decided to equip them with smoke and light grenades or rubber bullets and bean bag rounds for riot control, the M203 might have been somewhat useful, but of course they didn't think that far. All they bought was HE grenades and how often do you think you would be using those in urban environments on your own turf...?
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Post by mrfatso on Jun 14, 2018 6:40:14 GMT
If Denmark was attacked by a larger hostile force you might need something like that but that's just about the only time.
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Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2018 14:03:25 GMT
If you ask me, Glocks are nothing but one big design flaw. The trigger safety is too easy to disengage by accident and the trigger itself on some models is too sensitive. That combination has led to a lot of accidental discharges, even among extremely well trained professionals. Besides that, most models are backheavy, meaning the gun doesn't naturally fall back into alignment with the target after a shot. You have to make a much bigger conscious effort to adjust after the recoil to get back on target than with something like a Beretta 92F, a Sig P226 or an HK USP. The Danish Army and Air Force just went through the process of acquiring new service pistols. The politicians on the committee wanted Glock to be in the mix*, but due to heavy protests from our two special forces units, it didn't even make it into the intial testing round. They've had Glock 17s, 20s and 26s on trial in their arsenals before and found all three models lacking on all but one parameter, which was water resistance. For a long time, they begrudgingly used them when making infiltrations from the water because no other manufacturers had managed to make their sidearms as reliable in wet conditions, but as soon as HK and SIG caught up, the Glocks were locked away and haven't been in use since 2005. *Probably because they knew it from TV and movies and thought it "looked cool". It wouldn't be the first time they bought things for the armed forces using that reasoning. The Home Guard was once handed M203 grenade launchers to stick under their M16 rifles. Unlike the US National Guard, the Danish Home Guard is not supposed to be deployable in combat operations abroad. As the name implies, their main job is to defend our own country. If the powers that be had decided to equip them with smoke and light grenades or rubber bullets and bean bag rounds for riot control, the M203 might have been somewhat useful, but of course they didn't think that far. All they bought was HE grenades and how often do you think you would be using those in urban environments on your own turf...? I've never even thought they looked cool. they've always looked clunky and boxy to me.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 14, 2018 14:18:14 GMT
If Denmark was attacked by a larger hostile force you might need something like that but that's just about the only time. If we were attacked by a larger hostile force and didn't receive help from either you guys, the US or the Germans within the first 2 hours, we'd be toast even if every man, woman and child in the country had a grenade launcher Besides, they're not much use when practically no one in the Home Guard has actually been trained to operate them. Long story short, we got them at the height of the Afghanistan/Iraq wars and right in the middle of training the operators, the Army commandeered all live ammo for the foreseeable future. 2,000 launchers were handed out, but only about 80 people were ever trained to use them and had nothing to put in them if the need arose. Nonetheless, our guys were forced to lug those useless 3 pound metal tubes around with them on every training exercise for the next year, until cooler heads prevailed and they were finally sold to the Army (who actually had use for them). It's not the first time in recent history that decisions about Danish military purchases have been made by people who had no clue what they were doing and just bought something because they thought it was cool (the Joint Strike Fighter is another great example). Probably won't be the last time either, which is one of many reasons I'm definitively done with that game.
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Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2018 14:30:03 GMT
If Denmark was attacked by a larger hostile force you might need something like that but that's just about the only time. If we were attacked by a larger hostile force and didn't receive help from either you guys, the US or the Germans within the first 2 hours, we'd be toast even if every man, woman and child in the country had a grenade launcher Besides, they're not much use when practically no one in the Home Guard has actually been trained to operate them. Long story short, we got them at the height of the Afghanistan/Iraq wars and right in the middle of training the operators, the Army commandeered all live ammo for the foreseeable future. 2,000 launchers were handed out, but only about 80 people were ever trained to use them and had nothing to put in them if the need arose. Nonetheless, our guys were forced to lug those useless 3 pound metal tubes around with them on every training exercise for the next year, until cooler heads prevailed and they were finally sold to the Army (who actually had use for them). It's not the first time in recent history that decisions about Danish military purchases have been made by people who had no clue what they were doing and just bought something because they thought it was cool (the Joint Strike Fighter is another great example). Probably won't be the last time either, which is one of many reasons I'm definitively done with that game. but... but... but... American war movies!
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 14, 2018 14:37:11 GMT
I've never even thought they looked cool. they've always looked clunky and boxy to me. I completely agree, but some people can't get over the whole Rambo thing... I've always been a pragmatist when it comes to gear and weapons. If something isn't useful, it's in the way and needs to be tossed or swapped for something that actually works. One thing I advocated for for years was swapping out our M16 rifles for something smaller. With what the Home Guard does, maneuverability is more important than range. We didn't need to be able to hit targets at 450 yards, since most of our fighting would have taken place in or around urban environments. An M4 would have been more than enough and for those of us working inside the fences of Air Force bases, I argue that MP5s would actually have been the better choice. A 9mm round fired from the elongated barrel of a submachine gun would be plenty lethal at up to 150 yards, but would have low enough kinetic energy at longer ranges that stray bullets are less likely than 5.56mm rounds to cause unintended damage to planes and equipment in the background. I fail to see the point in defending something with a weapon that's just as likely to destroy what you're trying to protect as the enemy is. If that's what we're aiming for, let's just break out those M203s and get it overwith already!
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 14, 2018 14:38:40 GMT
but... but... but... American war movies! DING DING DING!!! Give that man a prize!
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Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2018 15:38:26 GMT
I've never even thought they looked cool. they've always looked clunky and boxy to me. I completely agree, but some people can't get over the whole Rambo thing... I've always been a pragmatist when it comes to gear and weapons. If something isn't useful, it's in the way and needs to be tossed or swapped for something that actually works. One thing I advocated for for years was swapping out our M16 rifles for something smaller. With what the Home Guard does, maneuverability is more important than range. We didn't need to be able to hit targets at 450 yards, since most of our fighting would have taken place in or around urban environments. An M4 would have been more than enough and for those of us working inside the fences of Air Force bases, I argue that MP5s would actually have been the better choice. A 9mm round fired from the elongated barrel of a submachine gun would be plenty lethal at up to 150 yards, but would have low enough kinetic energy at longer ranges that stray bullets are less likely than 5.56mm rounds to cause unintended damage to planes and equipment in the background. I fail to see the point in defending something with a weapon that's just as likely to destroy what you're trying to protect as the enemy is. If that's what we're aiming for, let's just break out those M203s and get it overwith already! we're kind of running into that in the fire department. 75% of the calls we run are to assist ambulance staff, and for the last 5 years we have run those calls in a modified pickup. now there is a push to run those calls in ladder trucks and heavy rescue apparatus. the way I summarize it is our doctrine has shifted from "use the best apparatus for the call" to "use the best apparatus for the call you think you might get next" the official reason is "what if you go to a medical and there is a structure fire, while you're on your way back to the station?" to which my response is, then the next crew takes the appropriate apparatus for the fire - what if you are in the MIDDLE of a medical and there is a structure fire?"
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 14, 2018 20:22:31 GMT
we're kind of running into that in the fire department. 75% of the calls we run are to assist ambulance staff, and for the last 5 years we have run those calls in a modified pickup. now there is a push to run those calls in ladder trucks and heavy rescue apparatus. the way I summarize it is our doctrine has shifted from "use the best apparatus for the call" to "use the best apparatus for the call you think you might get next" the official reason is "what if you go to a medical and there is a structure fire, while you're on your way back to the station?" to which my response is, then the next crew takes the appropriate apparatus for the fire - what if you are in the MIDDLE of a medical and there is a structure fire?" That's an easy one to answer. You either leave the patients to fend for themselves, or you let the motherlovin' building burn to the ground. Whichever option you choose, it'll be worth it because the brass get to feel like they've covered all their what ifs with the biggest, shiniest rig they could find and after all, making the brass feel good about themselves is the most important thing in the world, isn't it? I mean, they got all that stuff on their shoulders because they know better than everyone else, didn't they...? [/sarcasm]
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Post by kharnynb on Jun 15, 2018 17:26:27 GMT
reminds me of when the Netherlands, amongst other european countries, bought the f-104 starfighters...aka the most unforgiving jetfighter in the world...
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 15, 2018 23:50:19 GMT
reminds me of when the Netherlands, amongst other european countries, bought the f-104 starfighters...aka the most unforgiving jetfighter in the world... The infamous Lawn Dart. Yeah, we had that one too until we got the F-16 in 1980. When we were looking at replacing the F-16, we had four candidates. The SAAB JAS 39 Gripen NG, the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18E Super Hornet, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. If you ask me (and this opinion is backed by several fighter pilots I spoke to while I was in the Air Force), the smart choice would have been either the Eurofighter or the Super Hornet, but the politicians went with the F-35 because they argued that "stealth technology is the future". Besides 70-80% of all missions flown by the RDAF being air superiority missions where they intercept and ward off Russian planes that "stray" into our airspace, in which case you actually want to be visible on radar and have no use for stealth, they just casually glossed over the fact that in order to make good use of stealth technology, you have to continually make expensive upgrades to it. As with any other military technology, your enemies will be looking for ways to defeat it and as of right now, both the Russians and the Chinese have reportedly developed radar systems that are more than capable of picking out the signatures of both the JSF and the F-22 Raptor. The US Air Force may have the finances to develop countermeasures to that, but we're breaking our piggy banks just buying the damn things and won't be able to afford to upgrade them every 36-48 months. Meanwhile, the Eurofighter and the Super Hornet are both tried and true platforms that have proven their worth, while the JSF is still under development. Initial estimates made it out as superior to pretty much any other aircraft in the world, except for the F-22 Raptor, but now it looks like the Eurofighter and Super Hornet will be able to outperform it on every parameter except stealth. They're both faster, have longer range, can carry heavier and more varied payloads, are more maneuverable and last but not least, we could have gotten three of them for every two F-35s. But that's democracy for you... Expertise loses out to publicly appointed ignorance once again. That's what happens when the majority votes for whichever idiot shouts the loudest.
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Post by kharnynb on Jun 16, 2018 5:56:50 GMT
yup, the netherlands fell into the f-35 trap too. Finland is still deciding between the eurofighter, superhornet f-35 or the new saab.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 16, 2018 9:05:44 GMT
yup, the netherlands fell into the f-35 trap too. Finland is still deciding between the eurofighter, superhornet f-35 or the new saab. I think the SAAB would be the better choice for Finland, simply because the Swedes have built it to operate in the coldest conditions Northern Scandinavia can throw at it, which is where your jets will be spending the vast majority of their time. The Eurofighter and Super Hornet could probably operate in that environment as well (not sure about the JSF), but there's no "probably" with the Gripen NG. It's already been proven to work and work well. There's a reason it's consistently on the short list in most countries looking to buy new fighters.
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Post by wvengineer on Jun 18, 2018 21:17:12 GMT
In a previous job, I worked on parts for the F-35. Yeah, if the rest of the plane was managed as badly as what we did, no wonder it was over designed, over managed, over cost, and under performing.
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