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Post by the light works on Jan 12, 2016 15:05:54 GMT
Two things to remember about land grabs in the US. First there is in US history examples of the government grabbing land using dirty tricks not because the government needed it, or because the local population benefited from that. But because businesses bribed government officials. Added was the habit of offering less than the land was worth. Second is that land may have been owned by families for several generations. It is ironic to consider that while the US is a younger country there is probably a larger percentage of the population who've owned land for several generations than in the UK. the US has a long history of land grabs. every time ranchers wanted more land, the government just pushed the indians further back. when the homestead act was active (when new territory was opened up, it was pretty common that you would simply choose some unclaimed land, mark it as yours and start living on it. if you lived on it for a year without giving up, it was considered yours) the ranchers would claim the land with water on it, and as they controlled the water, they controlled all of the land around it. if someone found enough water to get by on land they controlled but was outside their legal claim, that was a "squatter" and were generally driven off with force. (well, this is a worst case scenario - many ranchers got on reasonably well with neighbors. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 12, 2016 15:09:46 GMT
When some people hear the word politician, they automatically think corruption. When others hear the term "big business" they assume greed and unrestrained capitalism. And when some of us hear "big government" we automatically think power grab and abuse of power. There are valid reasons why people think this way. and when some of us hear "republican" they automatically think politician, big business AND big government. and there are valid reasons why people think this way. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 12, 2016 15:57:20 GMT
When some people hear the word politician, they automatically think corruption. When others hear the term "big business" they assume greed and unrestrained capitalism. And when some of us hear "big government" we automatically think power grab and abuse of power. There are valid reasons why people think this way. and when some of us hear "republican" they automatically think politician, big business AND big government. and there are valid reasons why people think this way. political corruption and big business yes, big government is more a democratic trait. I could say more, but cyber doesn't want us discussing politics. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 12, 2016 16:16:10 GMT
and when some of us hear "republican" they automatically think politician, big business AND big government. and there are valid reasons why people think this way. political corruption and big business yes, big government is more a democratic trait. I could say more, but cyber doesn't want us discussing politics. I will leave it with a couple graphs, then.   |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 12, 2016 16:30:14 GMT
political corruption and big business yes, big government is more a democratic trait. I could say more, but cyber doesn't want us discussing politics. I will leave it with a couple graphs, then. Percentage of population with government jobs? How about percentage of population with ANY job? Your graphs equally apply to ALL employment, not just government jobs. Not so good when you view it that way. . .  |
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Post by the light works on Jan 12, 2016 16:52:27 GMT
I will leave it with a couple graphs, then. Percentage of population with government jobs? How about percentage of population with ANY job? Your graphs equally apply to ALL employment, not just government jobs. Not so good when you view it that way. you misread the caption: that is number of government jobs per number of citizens. if you want percentage of citizens employed, you want this graph.   compare those to the trend in executive compensation:  |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 12, 2016 16:59:02 GMT
Don't talk unemployment rate. That's a bogus number and it's meaningless. Look at participation rate. That's what your first graphs comparing government jobs to population are. It's not comparing government jobs to all jobs. And don't try to bring in executive pay. That's a straw man argument. It has nothing to do with the number of jobs.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 12, 2016 19:31:01 GMT
Getting back to the gun control discussion, I've noticed recently that the gun control proponents are no longer using that term. They are now calling their cause "Gun Safety." After all, who could possibly be against safety.
Same dog, new name. Kind of like changing the name of your attack pit bull from Killer to Fluffy.
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2016 1:53:56 GMT
Don't talk unemployment rate. That's a bogus number and it's meaningless. Look at participation rate. That's what your first graphs comparing government jobs to population are. It's not comparing government jobs to all jobs. And don't try to bring in executive pay. That's a straw man argument. It has nothing to do with the number of jobs. well, since you wanted to use private sector employement to talk about the government getting bigger, I thought straw men were the order of the day. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 13, 2016 4:41:03 GMT
Don't talk unemployment rate. That's a bogus number and it's meaningless. Look at participation rate. That's what your first graphs comparing government jobs to population are. It's not comparing government jobs to all jobs. And don't try to bring in executive pay. That's a straw man argument. It has nothing to do with the number of jobs. well, since you wanted to use private sector employement to talk about the government getting bigger, I thought straw men were the order of the day. No straw man there. You said government jobs got smaller. I was trying to get the point across that ALL employment got SMALLER. Not just government. But let's agree to stop with the graphs. They give me a headache. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2016 5:03:33 GMT
well, since you wanted to use private sector employement to talk about the government getting bigger, I thought straw men were the order of the day. No straw man there. You said government jobs got smaller. I was trying to get the point across that ALL employment got SMALLER. Not just government. But let's agree to stop with the graphs. They give me a headache. no, I didn't. I said "and when some of us hear "republican" they automatically think politician, big business AND big government. and there are valid reasons why people think this way." government jobs got BIGGER during the last republican administration. Read more: citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/post/83644/quote/1733?page=6#ixzz3x67IJqm0 |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 13, 2016 7:08:43 GMT
No straw man there. You said government jobs got smaller. I was trying to get the point across that ALL employment got SMALLER. Not just government. But let's agree to stop with the graphs. They give me a headache. no, I didn't. I said "and when some of us hear "republican" they automatically think politician, big business AND big government. and there are valid reasons why people think this way." government jobs got BIGGER during the last republican administration. Read more: citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/post/83644/quote/1733?page=6#ixzz3x67IJqm0OK. Whatever |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 13, 2016 9:05:04 GMT
Two things to remember about land grabs in the US. First there is in US history examples of the government grabbing land using dirty tricks not because the government needed it, or because the local population benefited from that. But because businesses bribed government officials. Added was the habit of offering less than the land was worth. Second is that land may have been owned by families for several generations. It is ironic to consider that while the US is a younger country there is probably a larger percentage of the population who've owned land for several generations than in the UK. Farms and hand-me-downs, I would question that, to the tune of land owning families only, not just those who buy houses. Some of our farms have been in the family since before Doomsday?... including some of the larger "Estates" possibly including the ones in the hands of the National Trust of stately homes etc. Small domestic House ownership and "garden" shouldnt be considered in that?.. Rented farms, who owns the land?.. the farmer may change, the land owners may not. Back to Govt. Land grabs, yes, there have been instances of corruption all over the place. One instance, I know of one or two where house prices are really bad because a proposed road scheme has put the threat of possible compulsory purchase orders over the heads of the owners, and that has gone on for decades, as the road scheme was continually delayed. But there should be some proof of legitimacy provided to Govt over state land grabs?... But that would be a perfect world, and we all know it isnt true. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 13, 2016 9:17:31 GMT
Govt employee's... do we really need a head of department for purchase of Rubber Bands?... in EVERY town hall?...
Yes there have been a significant reduction of Govt employees. Some of that was needed.
Money wasted.
Look at the last Labour govt's scheme of "jobs for the boys" who determined to empty the treasury and set up bogus "Minority concerns" for something like usbekistan origin pregnant lesbian help groups.
Minorities need to fit in, Govt should be for the Majority, or of help EVERYONE who needs it, not just minority.
We have flower tubs all over the streets, and in some cases of vandalism, I mean ALL over the streets, provided by the last labour Govt in a desperate rush to spend money.
Do we really need them?..
There are houses in a desperate state of repair owned by the Govt, yet the spend money and time planting flowers?.. nice to look at whilst you sit waiting for a tow van after the last pot hole in the road stripped important parts of your suspension off.....
This is why the last labour Govt failed so badly, and why the now new new labour party has needed so much re-invention.
This isnt political as in my political views BTW, its the truth, its what really happened to shove gordon the clown out of power. He thought he could buy our votes with Flowers.
I also accept that it may be mildly political, and if there are any worries, will be happy to remove this post....
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 13, 2016 13:35:37 GMT
Flower displays and the like have nothing to do with Westminster. Such decisions regarding spending is made at the local level.
I'm going to ask the other mods to take a look and decide if the above post is too political. My personal feelings towards the current administration involve burning tires and a bacon slicer. Which makes me less than objective on the subject.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 13, 2016 14:29:05 GMT
I love the smell of burning sliced bacon.
Burning tires, not so much.
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2016 15:05:54 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 13, 2016 15:28:03 GMT
So Republicans want to cut taxes and Democrats want to increase them. This is news?
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2016 15:55:23 GMT
So Republicans want to cut taxes and Democrats want to increase them. This is news? nope, what is news is that they would rather pay extended unemployment than have the government do make-work projects. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 13, 2016 16:50:07 GMT
Lets stay away from political issues that have nothing to do with the topic. All I will say is that humans evolved to think in binary. That is we think in terms of yes, no. Good, bad. Us, them and so on.
In the real world things are not that simple, nor are people. It is unwise to assume that everyone who is identified with a particular group will always think in a specific way or act in a specific way. You may see a lot of similarity within a group, but not identical thinking. Not all Texans are pro gun, not all Californians are anti gun for example.
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