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Post by silverdragon on Jan 31, 2016 11:16:04 GMT
There are also two assumptions that I don't think anyone noted; We assume that they are broadcasting signals in the hope they will find other life. Why? Species may well have come to the conclusion this might not be a good idea, in case whatever picks up the signal turns out to be less than friendly. A reasoning that explains why we've only sent out one such signal of our own. Or they may have done their own calculations and decided there is no other life out there, or none capable of responding. In which case why bother? Who says they haven't already picked up signals and investigated? Why would they automatically respond with a signal of their own? If they lack FTL technology sending a signal back might be pointless, its not like we'd be able to Skype each other. If they do have FTL technology they may feel that the better idea to to go over and have a more careful look before revealing their existence...and if they are that advanced they might not be all that interested in this planet as we have nothing to really offer them this far out. Or who knows, may be they have laws about messing with primitive species? Please do not look at me like I believe the hype of Conspiracy theorists, but... Who says they didnt already come pay us a visit?. There have been almost credible discussions, and discussions being the important part, of open agenda nature, of what would happen is "Little green men" did exist. One of them concerned the Jeff Waynes "War of the worlds" being broadcast as a radio show without prior warning creating mass panic to the radio audience... Just how would we all as a species react with the news there WERE aliens visiting us?.. Me?.. "Hello mate, this is earth, what can we do for you". Everyone else?.. We all have that mad aunt who freaks out at any surprise, the one you wonder how much is an act, how much is he inability to expect the unexpected. The one who lived through WW2 and saw the house next door vaporised.... But still jumps on a stool at the sign of a mouse. Or Spider. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 31, 2016 13:00:37 GMT
The war of the worlds broadcast didn't cause mass panic, or anything close to it. That is a myth.
The broadcast took place in a time slot used for plays and had frequent breaks in which the audience was reminded they were listening to a play. While the radio station did get a lot of calls these seem to have been people either praising the show, or complaining that it wasn't suitable for children.
There were no calls to the police of national guard, and stories about people arming themselves to repel the invaders were created by the press afterwards.
If aliens did pick up radio emissions they would most likely have turned up sometime in the mid 20th century. A period filled with wars and paranoia but lacking any type of central government. An alien species looking at this would have every reason to avoid contact. If they were hostile they might come to the conclusion anything of value would likely be destroyed in a conflict. If they were peaceful they'd probably want to wait until there was a single government they could talk to, rather that talking to one government and probably starting another major war at some point.
If aliens are out there the only thing they'd probably find interesting is our development as a species. So they'd probably look on us as an interesting science experiment in progress rather than something to be exploited. Even if they saw we had something they wanted they might wait for us to kill ourselves, or until we were in a position where they could trade with us for those items.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 1, 2016 7:54:19 GMT
That is why it was under discussion.
If it had been put out in the way the myth suggested, what would have been the response....
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Post by Lokifan on Feb 24, 2016 16:32:54 GMT
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Post by the light works on Feb 24, 2016 16:43:00 GMT
well, I'm guessing there are probably at least 700 quintillion planets in the universe, so that would be statistically reasonable. |
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Post by c64 on Mar 13, 2016 9:45:12 GMT
The war of the worlds broadcast didn't cause mass panic, or anything close to it. That is a myth. The broadcast took place in a time slot used for plays and had frequent breaks in which the audience was reminded they were listening to a play. While the radio station did get a lot of calls these seem to have been people either praising the show, or complaining that it wasn't suitable for children. There were no calls to the police of national guard, and stories about people arming themselves to repel the invaders were created by the press afterwards. If aliens did pick up radio emissions they would most likely have turned up sometime in the mid 20th century. A period filled with wars and paranoia but lacking any type of central government. An alien species looking at this would have every reason to avoid contact. If they were hostile they might come to the conclusion anything of value would likely be destroyed in a conflict. If they were peaceful they'd probably want to wait until there was a single government they could talk to, rather that talking to one government and probably starting another major war at some point. If aliens are out there the only thing they'd probably find interesting is our development as a species. So they'd probably look on us as an interesting science experiment in progress rather than something to be exploited. Even if they saw we had something they wanted they might wait for us to kill ourselves, or until we were in a position where they could trade with us for those items. A great Si-Fi comedian once had said: "If aliens would look at earth from great distance, they won't see you and me because the light takes hundreds of years to reach them. They would see chaps in funny cloths and wigs dancing minuet. Why should they bother to visit us?" The real problem is the distance. Radio signals degrade over distance. After way less than a light year, all you can receive is static noise. And this static noise is weaker than the static noise created by suns. The sun generates all kinds of frequencies, not only visible light! It pumps out billions of Watts of RF. When I worked for a satellite communications company, we used the sun to calibrate our dishes since you can easily calculate the position of the sun in the sky (or just look it up in the internet), then aim the dish to sun by hooking a simple voltmeter to the cable and adjust the dish until you get a very high voltage on the signal cable and then tell the servo system of the dish the angles of the sun so it knows exactly where it is. So best you can receive from an intelligent species is a hiss of static noise hidden in a much stronger hiss from their home sun. And looking at planets for street lights won't do it either. We can only detect other planets by watching the sun and measuring if there is an eclipse happening using sensitive instruments. We can barely detect the huge shadow of a planet circling its sun. Using this data, we can calculate the rough size of the planet and the distance to its sun so we can guess if the planet might allow life as we know it but we can't even tell if it has water on it. We can't even tell if Mars has some water on it and it is very close! |
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 28, 2017 18:04:12 GMT
The basic question 'why haven't we detected/heard from aliens' ignores a simpler question; Can you travel faster than light?
If the answer is no then the number of other species becomes rather moot, since we'd never be able to have a conversation let alone meet. In this scenario there would be little point sending out deliberate 'hello?' Signals, and based on human signals anything that could be detected wouldn't propagate far or be around for long.
If lasted than light travel IS possible...well WHY would you assume that a civilization that can move matter faster than light wouldn't be capable of doing the same with energy. In which case why would they use communications systems that were not transmitted faster than light; and hence undetectable to us.
Getting in touch with us might not be considered a great idea here either. Aliens would probably want to study humans to figure out how we'd react to a 'hello there' call, regardless what their long term intentions were. If hostile and after resources they'd want to know how hard we would fight, and how likely the resources in question are to get destroyed.
If peaceful they would not want to risk a conflict, and even if they believed they could do this turning up here might not be a good idea. Pathogens on Earth could prove fatal to them, and vice-versa, so a trip to visit the primitives not such a good idea; the same holds for the idea of a war or enslaving us.
If aliens are out there, and are 'here' it is much more likely they would keep their distance and observe. Maybe sending down small scout missions to collect biological samples to figure out how dangerous the environment wouod be to them. If it were me I'd scatter listening probes thoughout the solar system, and have them broadcast back to a science ship orbiting in the Oort cloud. Close enough to get information, far enough out we are highly unlikely to detect them.
And yes, this does means Aliens would be getting a lot of information on us from Fox news....
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Post by the light works on Feb 28, 2017 18:16:48 GMT
The basic question 'why haven't we detected/heard from aliens' ignores a simpler question; Can you travel faster than light? If the answer is no then the number of other species becomes rather moot, since we'd never be able to have a conversation let alone meet. In this scenario there would be little point sending out deliberate 'hello?' Signals, and based on human signals anything that could be detected wouldn't propagate far or be around for long. If lasted than light travel IS possible...well WHY would you assume that a civilization that can move matter faster than light wouldn't be capable of doing the same with energy. In which case why would they use communications systems that were not transmitted faster than light; and hence undetectable to us. Getting in touch with us might not be considered a great idea here either. Aliens would probably want to study humans to figure out how we'd react to a 'hello there' call, regardless what their long term intentions were. If hostile and after resources they'd want to know how hard we would fight, and how likely the resources in question are to get destroyed. If peaceful they would not want to risk a conflict, and even if they believed they could do this turning up here might not be a good idea. Pathogens on Earth could prove fatal to them, and vice-versa, so a trip to visit the primitives not such a good idea; the same holds for the idea of a war or enslaving us. If aliens are out there, and are 'here' it is much more likely they would keep their distance and observe. Maybe sending down small scout missions to collect biological samples to figure out how dangerous the environment wouod be to them. If it were me I'd scatter listening probes thoughout the solar system, and have them broadcast back to a science ship orbiting in the Oort cloud. Close enough to get information, far enough out we are highly unlikely to detect them. And yes, this does means Aliens would be getting a lot of information on us from Fox news.... or worse, from HBO and Showtime. no wonder they don't want to make contact with a race as hateful and violent as us. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 28, 2017 18:50:52 GMT
The basic question 'why haven't we detected/heard from aliens' ignores a simpler question; Can you travel faster than light? If the answer is no then the number of other species becomes rather moot, since we'd never be able to have a conversation let alone meet. In this scenario there would be little point sending out deliberate 'hello?' Signals, and based on human signals anything that could be detected wouldn't propagate far or be around for long. If lasted than light travel IS possible...well WHY would you assume that a civilization that can move matter faster than light wouldn't be capable of doing the same with energy. In which case why would they use communications systems that were not transmitted faster than light; and hence undetectable to us. Getting in touch with us might not be considered a great idea here either. Aliens would probably want to study humans to figure out how we'd react to a 'hello there' call, regardless what their long term intentions were. If hostile and after resources they'd want to know how hard we would fight, and how likely the resources in question are to get destroyed. If peaceful they would not want to risk a conflict, and even if they believed they could do this turning up here might not be a good idea. Pathogens on Earth could prove fatal to them, and vice-versa, so a trip to visit the primitives not such a good idea; the same holds for the idea of a war or enslaving us. If aliens are out there, and are 'here' it is much more likely they would keep their distance and observe. Maybe sending down small scout missions to collect biological samples to figure out how dangerous the environment wouod be to them. If it were me I'd scatter listening probes thoughout the solar system, and have them broadcast back to a science ship orbiting in the Oort cloud. Close enough to get information, far enough out we are highly unlikely to detect them. And yes, this does means Aliens would be getting a lot of information on us from Fox news.... or worse, from HBO and Showtime. no wonder they don't want to make contact with a race as hateful and violent as us. Look, I've seen those movies too. Those Aliens aren't as friendly as they want you to believe. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 28, 2017 19:02:57 GMT
or worse, from HBO and Showtime. no wonder they don't want to make contact with a race as hateful and violent as us. Look, I've seen those movies too. Those Aliens aren't as friendly as they want you to believe. I wasn't referring to the us vs. aliens movies. I was referring to westworld and game of thrones. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2017 9:42:07 GMT
If Aliens exist.
This may take a while.
So they exist, and are happily evolving, and one of them will be "The ancients", if we look at say Stargate for inspiration....
Problem, one of the races has to be the first.
In the area of probability, its quite plausible that Humans will be the first to be....
And by be, I mean everything.
If Faster than Light is at all possible, well, we will find it, and maybe we are the first race in the universe to find it.
The first "Other" intelligent population of a planet my be at the stage of the Spanish Armada.
Thats me saying that we may visit them several centuries before they get to the stage of thinking about the universe in the way that we do now?..
Someone has to be "the first", and why not us?.
It has taken all these millions of years for us to evolve into possible space travel, who says that any other planet is of either equivalent intelligence or even ahead of us in the game?.
Space its self is a wild place that is noisy violent and changeable, its full of quasars black holes and exotic particles, and a lot of everything else too numerous to mention here.
Its also mind-bogglingly vast.
If perhaps one planet in a whole galaxy gets to be able to travel interstellar, how long will that take in development and evolution?.
Take into context the possibility of that evolving planet getting a random large bit of debris from a comet of something striking it, the chances of it evolving "this far" are pretty slim.
And then there is intergalactic travel.
How long has it taken for Voyager to clear our own solar system?.
Intergalactic travel is only "Pipe dream" let alone science fiction at this time.
We are theorising on the future of speed in a way that suggests that the next generation of Humans will work it out how to exceed the speed of light.
We have "Plans" to create an outpost of humanity on Mars....
How long did it take them to get to the moon?.
By that I mean the whole moon shot from the president of the USA doing the "We choose to do this because its hard" speech to actually stepping foot on that moon?.
The Mars shot will take that long at least before we even launch anything suitable for that.
Will Humans ever go outside our own solar system?.
Not in MY lifetime.
And then what?.
The jump to getting to the next solar system is not at all possible at this stage of the game, physics denies us doing that, by the mere presence of distance and time to make the jump to our nearest star away from the sun.
And what if we do?.
To make that jump, we would have to know we can make the jump back, or make sure there is something "Worth" going there for...
Which involves us sending a high-speed probe that way to investigate the possible planet of Goldilocks Zone habitation that we could exist on.
If the finding of the American continent back in time had proven to be an ice-age type land, like north or south pole, would we have inhabited it in the way we did America?..
Therefore, visiting elsewhere in the universe has to be first worth the journey, and the journey its self is beyond our capability.
And in that, we are not alone.
There may be many many many vast intelligences out there in space and the other side of the universe that could take a game of chess at the speed of deep blue in their own mind that have hit the problem of distance and have, like us, stalled in the how they manage to cross that distance.
They can bend the laws of physics as much as they like, but light speed travel is light speed travel, and they cant get faster than that.
And they are so far away that not even a message sent by the fastest message carrier we have even theorised would be able to get there in the time it would take to make that message worth the sending.
So are we alone?..
Yes we are, but, like our own planet, if "Getting there" means walking the whole way, the distance is daunting.
Even if it were to be a 10 year trip, thats a lot of distance to go.
Perhaps they like us are sitting there theorising what they may find on that possible third rocks from the star that they have theorised may exist at a stage of evolution worth their visit.
If there had been ancient aliens visiting earth, what did they leave behind?.
I argue nothing, because most of their stuff is needed on board their ship?.
Maybe they only stopped for to replenish their own water supplies?..
Or grab some fuel?.
Who knows?.
Will they come back?.
We will only know when they do.
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2017 15:07:02 GMT
speaking in theoretical terms: the two significant directions in our galaxy are coreward and rimward. if we work under the assumption that the galaxy emerged from a singularity, then it could be presumed the rimward systems were the first to reach a stable ordered state, and the coreward systems were last - with some still unstable. therefore, it could be theorized that any life rimward of us will be older than we are, and life coreward of us will be younger. This, of course, must be taken in conjunction with the lack of comparisons for the rate at which a civilization develops, so just because a civilization is older does not necessarily mean it is more advanced. there was a study I read which showed that two factors play into the rate of technological development. if a culture has to work too hard to survive, there is no extra effort or resources available to work on technological advance. On the other end of the spectrum, if a culture is living in comfort at their existing tech level, there is little incentive to advance.
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