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Post by mrfatso on Oct 17, 2016 15:13:47 GMT
The problem with any Hydroelectric solution is the massive amount of the land resources it eats up. You not only need the land area, but the proper topology for it to work. On the other hand, you can put an ethanol plant almost anywhere. However, I aint seen may Hydro plants go "boom"?... Yes of course, Hydro cant work on the flat, and ethanol can be stored safely. But in comparison, if a Hydro plant starts burning up, it can use the water on site to put fires out.... Not boom precisely but anything man made can go wrong given the right circumstances and when it does it can be catastrophic. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_DamThe Italian Vajont dam disaster is an example of when a hydro plant went badly wrong, killing nearly 1800 people when a landslide caused a tsunami that cause the lake to overtop, flooding villages below.
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Post by wvengineer on Oct 17, 2016 20:17:11 GMT
still, carbon dioxide is usually a combustion by-product. Here's the problem with "variable energy" systems like wind and solar. You may be surprised to know that for every wind/solar plant you build, somewhere a traditional fossil fuel plant is running without contributing any power to the grid. This is because of physics. Power production must, at all times, equal power demand. Too much production and you burn out systems. Too much demand and you get blackouts/brownouts. So, how do you deal with variable production and demand? The techniques are well understood, dating back to Edison's days. You basically always run your production facility so it produces a little bit more than you need, and dump the resulting waste power you don't use into a dummy load, where it's used up, usually as heat. Using predictive algorithms (simply looking at history and human behavior), you know that more power is used on a hot summer day than a cool fall night. You adjust your system to balance, cranking up the oil, coal, natural gas, hydro, or neutrons when you need them. You bring generators (and sometimes whole plants) that are idling into full production as demand increases. Run out of production, and you get blackouts/brownouts. The problem is that it's not instantaneous. The fastest power plants (usually natural gas) need about a half hour warning to change production levels significantly. Older, slower plants can take hours to change. So, if you're running solar or wind on your grid, you're constantly watching the weather and your output. When either starts to drop off, you call up the fossil plant that's been backstopping them by idling, and tell them to ramp up their outputs to compensate. When the wind stops blowing or the sun goes down (or it gets cloudy/rainy), you cut off the wind/solar from the grid and rely entirely on the fossil plants. The most fascinating part of this process for me happens when you predict wrong. Too much demand gets you brownouts/blackouts, but too much production means those dummy loads get hot--very hot--as they eat up the excess. In one case, the load is basically a bunch of copper "trees" that actually melt when they get too much power. So, whenever you see a windmill or solar panel, even when they're working and producing power, somewhere, a fossil fuel plant is burning fuel that it wastes idling. Why not turn the fossil fuel plant off until you need it? Because, as I said, a half hour to change output is the best case, when they're idling. To bring up even one of these fast plants can take days to turn on from a cold start. Enter this development, and things get easier and much more efficient. Being able to store energy as ethanol means you can smooth out your supply output, burning it as you need it so you don't need a natural gas backup running elsewhere. Heck, by their description, you could use it to produce vehicle fuel, thus saving corn to be used for something more useful, like feeding people or animals. If it works out, short ADM stock. Having the wind stop blowing or the sun stop shining is no longer the constant catastrophe that it is now. This actually isn't always the case these days. There are a couple wind farms in my area and the company that maintains them has their shop right across the road from where I work. I have talked with the people there a few times. For a while, they were experimenting with large scale power storage systems. One company was building large flywheels to store excess energy from windmills. This didn’t work as well as people hoped, and when they came out with what I will get into next, it basically made it obsolete. The latest generation of wind turbine include variable pitch blades. They work in the same way that an airplanes’ variable pitch propeller works. They can adjust the angle of the blades to control how much power it generates. It varies with the wind speed and the power demand, but on average the steeper the angle, the less power for a given wind speed. A shallower angle means more power. They can fully feather the blades to shut the whole unit down due to lacking demand, or for maintenance. This for the most part is all run by computer. There is a central server running a farm of up to several dozen windmills. It looks at the current wind speed, load demand, and maintenance status of each turbine and will adjust things throughout the farm as needed to match the load. One really nice thing is that a windmill can change blade pitch to react to load demands within a few seconds, much faster than a fired power plant can. With the newest windmills, they can actually use the wind power to react to changing loads instead of the fossil fuel plants. It gives better efficiency overall. They are able to run the big Fossil fuel plants at a good steady state and then vary the windmills as needed.
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Post by Lokifan on Oct 17, 2016 21:15:45 GMT
This dynamic balancing is better, but not enough.
You can still get a hot day with no wind, which is the worst case. If you depend on that wind power to stop a brownout/blackout, you're stuck.
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