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Post by the light works on Jan 24, 2017 14:42:30 GMT
Should the definition of wind chill be any object "cooling" faster in a wind than it would without it?. That is the test?. No. Wind chill is the effect on an object without a change in temperature. If the actual temperature is changing, that's not wind chill. exactly. if the air temperature is changing, that's refrigeration.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 25, 2017 6:58:18 GMT
Should the definition of wind chill be any object "cooling" faster in a wind than it would without it?. That is the test?. No. Wind chill is the effect on an object without a change in temperature. If the actual temperature is changing, that's not wind chill. What effect on an object is changing if its not temp?..
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 25, 2017 7:06:54 GMT
I am going to have to revert to quoting Wikapedia here, as someone there has managed to put into words what I am trying to explain. Wind chill is the speed of change of temp temp due to wind, and does in fact meet the description of refrigeration, where refrigeration is done by a blast of cold air such as in the "Refer" vans I occasionally tow, that have a huge air-blast fan pushing cold air around inside. From Here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chillTherefore, measuring a change in temp over time with and without a fan running is a direct measure of wind chill factor isnt it?.. I ask as that is what I believe to be the full extent of how you measure wind chill, the rate of temp change due to a wind blowing, with or without that wind coming from a cooler place.
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Post by ponytail61 on Jan 25, 2017 7:19:52 GMT
No. Wind chill is the effect on an object without a change in temperature. If the actual temperature is changing, that's not wind chill. What effect on an object is changing if its not temp?.. I believe he is saying the air temperature is not changing. If it is 45 outside and the wind is blowing 10 mph an inanimate object will not get colder than 45. Our weather stations don't report it as "wind chill" temperature anymore. Now they call it the "feels like" temp. The same with humidity in the summer. Air temperature is 90 but with humidity factored in it "feels like" 96. That one was called humiture but now is better known as heat index.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 25, 2017 13:33:49 GMT
That's not what my understanding was of the definition of windchill and I don't think that's what the original poster was referring to. But if we are going to define wind chill as actual change in temperature, then I guess I've been discussing the wrong topic.
Sorry I wasted your time.
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Post by the light works on Jan 25, 2017 13:56:09 GMT
So if we are changing the definition of wind chill to change in actual temperature, then it sounds like this discussion is over. I want to change the definition of wind chill to a nice ribeye steak. and I could go for some wind chill right now. but here is how Merriam Webster defines wind chill: Definition of windchill : a still-air temperature that would have the same cooling effect on exposed human skin as a given combination of temperature and wind speed —called also chill factor, windchill factor, windchill index again: if your ambient temperature is 40 degrees, and a cold wind comes out of the north and makes the ambient temperature 20 degrees, that is not wind chill. if the ambient temperature is 20 degrees and the wind makes it feel like 10 degrees, that is wind chill.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2017 7:35:17 GMT
That's not what my understanding was of the definition of windchill and I don't think that's what the original poster was referring to. But if we are going to define wind chill as actual change in temperature, then I guess I've been discussing the wrong topic. Sorry I wasted your time. Absolutely not, being that we have now bounced a few ideas about, have we come to a consensus of what wind chill is to be defined as for the purpose of this intended test?. And has your own side of the discussion been part of the "Myth" that surrounds Wind chill, in that what many people believe is wind chill is a totally separate issue?.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2017 7:37:50 GMT
So if we are changing the definition of wind chill to change in actual temperature, then it sounds like this discussion is over. I want to change the definition of wind chill to a nice ribeye steak. and I could go for some wind chill right now. but here is how Merriam Webster defines wind chill: Definition of windchill : a still-air temperature that would have the same cooling effect on exposed human skin as a given combination of temperature and wind speed —called also chill factor, windchill factor, windchill index again: if your ambient temperature is 40 degrees, and a cold wind comes out of the north and makes the ambient temperature 20 degrees, that is not wind chill. if the ambient temperature is 20 degrees and the wind makes it feel like 10 degrees, that is wind chill. Ahh But... if the ambient temp is 10 degC and a -5 wind from the north that passes through quickly and only changes the ambient temp by 1 or 2 degree, it could feel like zero because of that wind... where is the wind chill there?.
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Post by the light works on Jan 26, 2017 15:36:32 GMT
I want to change the definition of wind chill to a nice ribeye steak. and I could go for some wind chill right now. but here is how Merriam Webster defines wind chill: Definition of windchill : a still-air temperature that would have the same cooling effect on exposed human skin as a given combination of temperature and wind speed —called also chill factor, windchill factor, windchill index again: if your ambient temperature is 40 degrees, and a cold wind comes out of the north and makes the ambient temperature 20 degrees, that is not wind chill. if the ambient temperature is 20 degrees and the wind makes it feel like 10 degrees, that is wind chill. Ahh But... if the ambient temp is 10 degC and a -5 wind from the north that passes through quickly and only changes the ambient temp by 1 or 2 degree, it could feel like zero because of that wind... where is the wind chill there?. well, if you mean the wind originates at -5C, but is 9 or 8 C when it comes into contact with your skin, the wind chill is that part that makes you feel like it is 0C. if the wind is -5C when it touches your skin but is so brief that it only feels like 0C, there is no wind chill.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 27, 2017 7:19:53 GMT
A -5 wind that is -5 as it passes you has not had time enough to cool the ambient temp of the surroundings yet, the surroundings still are at 10degrees during the start of that wind, it still feels like zero as the wind passes through the seams of your jacket, and only after a reasonable blow will it have dropped the ambient temp to 8 or 9, cooling takes time...?
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Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2017 7:25:07 GMT
A -5 wind that is -5 as it passes you has not had time enough to cool the ambient temp of the surroundings yet, the surroundings still are at 10degrees during the start of that wind, it still feels like zero as the wind passes through the seams of your jacket, and only after a reasonable blow will it have dropped the ambient temp to 8 or 9, cooling takes time...? if it has displaced the 10 degree air with -5 degree air, that is just getting hit with cold air, not wind chill.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 27, 2017 7:53:38 GMT
A -5 wind that is -5 as it passes you has not had time enough to cool the ambient temp of the surroundings yet, the surroundings still are at 10degrees during the start of that wind, it still feels like zero as the wind passes through the seams of your jacket, and only after a reasonable blow will it have dropped the ambient temp to 8 or 9, cooling takes time...? if it has displaced the 10 degree air with -5 degree air, that is just getting hit with cold air, not wind chill. But has it replaced all that air with cold air?.. The air behind that fence, on the lee side of the hill, that being warmed by that flat expanse of concrete patio.... Cooling, like warming, takes time. Meanwhile, a person standing right in the path of the wind, is going to feel the effects quicker?.
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Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2017 14:07:17 GMT
if it has displaced the 10 degree air with -5 degree air, that is just getting hit with cold air, not wind chill. But has it replaced all that air with cold air?.. The air behind that fence, on the lee side of the hill, that being warmed by that flat expanse of concrete patio.... Cooling, like warming, takes time. Meanwhile, a person standing right in the path of the wind, is going to feel the effects quicker?. just like a person who is standing in the path of a stream of cold water is going to feel the effects quicker. let's try ANOTHER explanation and see if this one makes it in. if you are standing in front of a fan, that is wind chill. if you are standing in front of an air conditioner, that is refrigeration.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 28, 2017 10:14:17 GMT
But has it replaced all that air with cold air?.. The air behind that fence, on the lee side of the hill, that being warmed by that flat expanse of concrete patio.... Cooling, like warming, takes time. Meanwhile, a person standing right in the path of the wind, is going to feel the effects quicker?. just like a person who is standing in the path of a stream of cold water is going to feel the effects quicker. let's try ANOTHER explanation and see if this one makes it in. if you are standing in front of a fan, that is wind chill. if you are standing in front of an air conditioner, that is refrigeration. Almost but not quite. If you are standing in front of the blast, its wind chill from the air blast. If your just in the room, thats refrigeration.... Refridgeration deals with the drop of ambient temp in the whole area.
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Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2017 14:41:02 GMT
just like a person who is standing in the path of a stream of cold water is going to feel the effects quicker. let's try ANOTHER explanation and see if this one makes it in. if you are standing in front of a fan, that is wind chill. if you are standing in front of an air conditioner, that is refrigeration. Almost but not quite. If you are standing in front of the blast, its wind chill from the air blast. If your just in the room, thats refrigeration.... Refridgeration deals with the drop of ambient temp in the target area. fixed it for you. if the wind is colder than ambient temperature, any cooling that comes from the lower temperature is not wind chill.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 29, 2017 10:08:07 GMT
Wind chill, deals by chilling from?... Well, the wind then isnt it?.
The wind does not have to be colder than the ambient temp, it just has to be importantly damper than the ambient Rh, and the "target" must "feel" the cold.
To illustrate, warm a drop of Brandy to human temp. If you do this with whisky, there is a thousand hairy Viking shaped Scots who may wanna have a word with you,[1] so use whiskEy, just not single malt whisky?.. Allow some of that to sit on the back of your hand... then start blowing. Sooner or later the alcohol will evaporate, and chill your hand.
[1][Whisky is fer tha drinking....]
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Post by the light works on Jan 29, 2017 15:10:11 GMT
it occurred to me yesterday morning, that basic test equipment for proof of concept testing is very easy to come by.
many modern cars have an outdoor temperature reading in the instruments, somewhere. pretty simple (for a production company) to get a couple of matching cars, and the use of a circle or oval track, and some form of a heated shop.
at that point, you can take both at ambient temperature, and drive one fastish around the track while one sits, and compare temperature readings. and you can warm both of them up in the shop, and repeat the experiment, comparing whether there is a difference in the rate of change in the temperature readings.
I have noticed, at times, that if mine sits in the sun, it will give a falsely high reading, which will come down after driving for a while.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 30, 2017 8:39:44 GMT
it occurred to me yesterday morning, that basic test equipment for proof of concept testing is very easy to come by. many modern cars have an outdoor temperature reading in the instruments, somewhere. pretty simple (for a production company) to get a couple of matching cars, and the use of a circle or oval track, and some form of a heated shop. at that point, you can take both at ambient temperature, and drive one fastish around the track while one sits, and compare temperature readings. and you can warm both of them up in the shop, and repeat the experiment, comparing whether there is a difference in the rate of change in the temperature readings. I have noticed, at times, that if mine sits in the sun, it will give a falsely high reading, which will come down after driving for a while. The temp sensor is placed in the air intake?.. that is useful information for a EMU unit to know, what kind of air is entering, so thats a probability. The one I have is pretty accurate most of the time, but it does have problems in extreme wet, it has gone from 10 to -5 in one big puddle, I think I may need to chase the wiring.
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Post by the light works on Jan 30, 2017 14:21:38 GMT
it occurred to me yesterday morning, that basic test equipment for proof of concept testing is very easy to come by. many modern cars have an outdoor temperature reading in the instruments, somewhere. pretty simple (for a production company) to get a couple of matching cars, and the use of a circle or oval track, and some form of a heated shop. at that point, you can take both at ambient temperature, and drive one fastish around the track while one sits, and compare temperature readings. and you can warm both of them up in the shop, and repeat the experiment, comparing whether there is a difference in the rate of change in the temperature readings. I have noticed, at times, that if mine sits in the sun, it will give a falsely high reading, which will come down after driving for a while. The temp sensor is placed in the air intake?.. that is useful information for a EMU unit to know, what kind of air is entering, so thats a probability. The one I have is pretty accurate most of the time, but it does have problems in extreme wet, it has gone from 10 to -5 in one big puddle, I think I may need to chase the wiring. I believe mine is probably mounted on the backing for my mirror, along with an electronic compass.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 31, 2017 9:21:29 GMT
Can anyone say "Sunstrike"?... in a greenhouse effect as well?.. Bloody silly place to put it if you ask me, mine is buried in the heart of the car somewhere, where instant sunstrike doesnt hit it?..
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