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Post by silverdragon on Mar 5, 2017 7:49:55 GMT
On Iffy science, I watched a show "DC's Legends of Tomorrow", at one point they are in a mine that has "Dwarf star" material in it. "Its heavier than this whole room" on a piece thats the size of a matchbox in a room made of rock..., so one of them picks up a piece the size of his head in the next cave, and tries to lug it a few feet...
Now I know a but about Dwarf Stars, they are the makers of black holes, and if that substance was REAL dwarf star, wouldnt it have swallowed the whole room into a gravity rich hole?.. Except they were trying to make it into a new "Black powder" that explodes highly and if put inside a bullet explodes on contact. If it explodes on contact in an 19th century hand gun, how come it didnt just explode in a ball of boom when the weapon was fired whilst still in the barrel?..
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 5, 2017 9:16:57 GMT
On Iffy science, I watched a show "DC's Legends of Tomorrow", at one point they are in a mine that has "Dwarf star" material in it. "Its heavier than this whole room" on a piece thats the size of a matchbox in a room made of rock..., so one of them picks up a piece the size of his head in the next cave, and tries to lug it a few feet... Now I know a but about Dwarf Stars, they are the makers of black holes, and if that substance was REAL dwarf star, wouldnt it have swallowed the whole room into a gravity rich hole?.. Except they were trying to make it into a new "Black powder" that explodes highly and if put inside a bullet explodes on contact. If it explodes on contact in an 19th century hand gun, how come it didnt just explode in a ball of boom when the weapon was fired whilst still in the barrel?.. 'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars.
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Post by Lokifan on Mar 5, 2017 16:53:16 GMT
On Iffy science, I watched a show "DC's Legends of Tomorrow", at one point they are in a mine that has "Dwarf star" material in it. "Its heavier than this whole room" on a piece thats the size of a matchbox in a room made of rock..., so one of them picks up a piece the size of his head in the next cave, and tries to lug it a few feet... Now I know a but about Dwarf Stars, they are the makers of black holes, and if that substance was REAL dwarf star, wouldnt it have swallowed the whole room into a gravity rich hole?.. Except they were trying to make it into a new "Black powder" that explodes highly and if put inside a bullet explodes on contact. If it explodes on contact in an 19th century hand gun, how come it didnt just explode in a ball of boom when the weapon was fired whilst still in the barrel?.. 'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars. Wouldn't any uncontained stellar matter short of a black hole's event horizon instantly expand when not constrained by the star's gravity, thus making it impossible to pick up in chunks?
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 5, 2017 17:46:36 GMT
'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars. Wouldn't any uncontained stellar matter short of a black hole's event horizon instantly expand when not constrained by the star's gravity, thus making it impossible to pick up in chunks? Yes quite probably come back think of it.
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Post by the light works on Mar 5, 2017 22:57:57 GMT
Wouldn't any uncontained stellar matter short of a black hole's event horizon instantly expand when not constrained by the star's gravity, thus making it impossible to pick up in chunks? Yes quite probably come back think of it. first rule of handling ultra dense matter: don't pick it up. (if it is a big enough chunk to have its own gravity)
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 6:33:12 GMT
On Iffy science, I watched a show "DC's Legends of Tomorrow", at one point they are in a mine that has "Dwarf star" material in it. "Its heavier than this whole room" on a piece thats the size of a matchbox in a room made of rock..., so one of them picks up a piece the size of his head in the next cave, and tries to lug it a few feet... Now I know a but about Dwarf Stars, they are the makers of black holes, and if that substance was REAL dwarf star, wouldnt it have swallowed the whole room into a gravity rich hole?.. Except they were trying to make it into a new "Black powder" that explodes highly and if put inside a bullet explodes on contact. If it explodes on contact in an 19th century hand gun, how come it didnt just explode in a ball of boom when the weapon was fired whilst still in the barrel?.. 'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars. The point was they were lugging bits "The size of your head" around like it was no more than limestone.... surely that dense it would need a forklift?.. and then they had the old mine trolleys full of the stuff, and that would need a full steam train to pull just one trolley?..
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 6:38:09 GMT
'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars. Wouldn't any uncontained stellar matter short of a black hole's event horizon instantly expand when not constrained by the star's gravity, thus making it impossible to pick up in chunks? Same reason Why doesnt frozen liquid hydrogen/helium/oxygen immediately expand to the gas... because it cant immediately absorb enough heat from the surrounding air, and that would be the same with even super-dense "rock", it would need to "warm up" to expand, and it cant get enough from the surrounding air. It will be super-cold to handle, but they didnt even try to answer that.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 6:50:23 GMT
'Dwarf Star' in Legends of Tomorrow refers to what we more commonly call a White Dwarf Star, the remenants of a star that was smaller than our sun. They are very dense and an amount the size of a matchbox would be too heavy for anything they use it for on the show. However it's not as dense as the core of a black hole they are formed by Stars that have a mass even greater than that that form Neutron Stars. The point was they were lugging bits "The size of your head" around like it was no more than limestone.... surely that dense it would need a forklift?.. and then they had the old mine trolleys full of the stuff, and that would need a full steam train to pull just one trolley?.. And my point was as dense as the material they are supposed to be carrying about it is not as dense as the material that exists in the centre of a black hole.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 7:17:36 GMT
The point was they were lugging bits "The size of your head" around like it was no more than limestone.... surely that dense it would need a forklift?.. and then they had the old mine trolleys full of the stuff, and that would need a full steam train to pull just one trolley?.. And my point was as dense as the material they are supposed to be carrying about it is not as dense as the material that exists in the centre of a black hole. We are arguing the same point but from different scales of heavy?.. I think I said "Makers of a black hole"... perhaps I termed it wrong?.. If the star continues to collapse inwards and sucks in all the planets around it towards that super dense star material, the collection of all that now gravity rich material will start to suck in more and more material, which will, in turn, if it can collect enough, make a black hole. The difference between a dwarf star and black hole is time and the presence of material that can be drawn in by the gravitational pull. This is why they now suspect that the centre of all galaxies may be a black hole, because the amount of material is high in the middle, and just one star system going supernova and dwarf may have been enough to suck in all the surrounding star systems to pass the event horizon of "enough" to start creating the black hole. They have theorised that our own galaxy is being attracted, slowly, in inches per year out here where we are, towards the centre of the galaxy. They have also theorized that we are still expanding. But they all together theorise that only for a certain amount of time [-unknown, which is helpful isnt it?.] before the galaxies start to collapse, because at the centre, the gravity rich environment being created is sooner or later going to start affecting this outer edge. But if it was the same scale of heavy as what exists in the centre of a black hole, we wouldnt know it, but we would already be in that black hole, and beyond the event horizon of a black hole anyway.... "Some say" perhaps we already are, and time is progressing very slowly for us.
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Post by Lokifan on Mar 6, 2017 7:18:49 GMT
Wouldn't any uncontained stellar matter short of a black hole's event horizon instantly expand when not constrained by the star's gravity, thus making it impossible to pick up in chunks? Same reason Why doesnt frozen liquid hydrogen/helium/oxygen immediately expand to the gas... because it cant immediately absorb enough heat from the surrounding air, and that would be the same with even super-dense "rock", it would need to "warm up" to expand, and it cant get enough from the surrounding air. It will be super-cold to handle, but they didnt even try to answer that. But the surface of a neutron star is an incredibly weird environment, and nothing like a room temperature room on Earth. The potential energy in a chunk of neutronium is very big--as it's been compressed by gravity, isn't it like a coiled and compressed spring, where the reduction in gravity from being off the surface would cause it to "explode" if suddenly released? From Wiki: So, it appears it would boil off rather quickly, frying anything in the vicinity. From what I can tell, the neutron star's environment defies using terms like "solid, liquid, gas, plasma" to describe what neutronium really is. Gas seems to be the best description, but it's obviously weird.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 7:37:30 GMT
Same reason Why doesnt frozen liquid hydrogen/helium/oxygen immediately expand to the gas... because it cant immediately absorb enough heat from the surrounding air, and that would be the same with even super-dense "rock", it would need to "warm up" to expand, and it cant get enough from the surrounding air. It will be super-cold to handle, but they didnt even try to answer that. But the surface of a neutron star is an incredibly weird environment, and nothing like a room temperature room on Earth. The potential energy in a chunk of neutronium is very big--as it's been compressed by gravity, isn't it like a coiled and compressed spring, where the reduction in gravity from being off the surface would cause it to "explode" if suddenly released? From Wiki: So, it appears it would boil off rather quickly, frying anything in the vicinity. From what I can tell, the neutron star's environment defies using terms like "solid, liquid, gas, plasma" to describe what neutronium really is. Gas seems to be the best description, but it's obviously weird. I have to use theory a lot to answer that, because, as of yet, no one has actually done it, but, they have theorised... If the surface of a neuron star came to earth, for a start, Iron is a star killer, any exposure to Iron or Carbon will make the thing super-collapse even further, emitting a lot of "nasty" energy of atomic bomb variety. If you could get some of that here, it would emit a lot of energy, then absorb that energy rather quickly, and then "suck in" an awful lot of energy from the surroundings, then expand, and thats at the speed of an explosion, then heat up as it sucks in a lot of energy, and then "Feed" on the surface of our own planet. They have theorised that the surface of the star would be an explosion being kept in check by the super gravity rich surrounding of the rest of the star, so thats almost gravity acting as a force field, that stops the explosion happening. It has happened, but gravity stops it spreading. However.. What was under discussion was "The heart of the star". That which lies beyond the mantle, more towards the centre of the star. At the centre of the star, when it goes "dwarf", is a solid. Yes theory states you cant use the terms of solid we use here on earth... Its a solid by forms of super-solid, as in a gas that has been compressed and the energy sucked out of it to the state where the neutrons and electrons of the particles have been compressed together by gravity into a solid. This of course means it has lost heat.... heat is not affected by gravity, well, I say that, but how do we know?.. I theorise that as nothing escapes a black hole, heat MUST be affected by gravity?.. Anyway, in a star that goes dwarf, the centre of the star stops moving about and looses the energy. To bring that here, it must first start to draw in energy to allow that initial expansion from its super-compressed form to something more solid as we use the term on earth, then expand further, which requires more energy, etc... If you consider all the weight of our own earth's mantle resting on the centre of our planet, and that we still consider the centre of our planet to be a swirling mass of liquid molten Iron, what would it be if we took all the heat away?.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 7:41:46 GMT
And my point was as dense as the material they are supposed to be carrying about it is not as dense as the material that exists in the centre of a black hole. We are arguing the same point but from different scales of heavy?.. I think I said "Makers of a black hole"... perhaps I termed it wrong?.. If the star continues to collapse inwards and sucks in all the planets around it towards that super dense star material, the collection of all that now gravity rich material will start to suck in more and more material, which will, in turn, if it can collect enough, make a black hole. The difference between a dwarf star and black hole is time and the presence of material that can be drawn in by the gravitational pull. This is why they now suspect that the centre of all galaxies may be a black hole, because the amount of material is high in the middle, and just one star system going supernova and dwarf may have been enough to suck in all the surrounding star systems to pass the event horizon of "enough" to start creating the black hole. They have theorised that our own galaxy is being attracted, slowly, in inches per year out here where we are, towards the centre of the galaxy. They have also theorized that we are still expanding. But they all together theorise that only for a certain amount of time [-unknown, which is helpful isnt it?.] before the galaxies start to collapse, because at the centre, the gravity rich environment being created is sooner or later going to start affecting this outer edge. But if it was the same scale of heavy as what exists in the centre of a black hole, we wouldnt know it, but we would already be in that black hole, and beyond the event horizon of a black hole anyway.... "Some say" perhaps we already are, and time is progressing very slowly for us. No it does not work that way, white dwarfs are so,much lower in their masses than the Suns that form Black holes and the ther material in a solar system so much a smaller fraction of the mass of such a system than the sun they do not collapse and form black holes by sucking in the planet around them.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 7:46:11 GMT
Give it time. Maybe time in the billions of years, but white dwarfs have a shelf life, and then after emitting all their heat outwards, they will burn up and collapse even further.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 7:46:31 GMT
Technically we don't consider the centre of the planet to be a swirling mass of molten iron and nickel, the central core is thought to be a solid phase of iron and nickel.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 7:50:10 GMT
Cosmologists theorise that white dwarfs will form Black Dwarf Stars. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dwarfThere has not been enough time in the universe yet for one to form, but they would be very dense with a mostly flat surface. They would not however have enough mass to,form a black,hole.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 7:53:05 GMT
Cosmologists theorise that white dwarfs will form Black Dwarf Stars. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dwarfThere has not been enough time in the universe yet for one to form, but they would be very dense with a mostly flat surface. They would not however have enough mass to,form a black,hole. Because they have not yet attracted enough surrounding matter to them. If one collides with another solar system or galaxy, it will "suck in" more matter.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 6, 2017 7:54:47 GMT
Technically we don't consider the centre of the planet to be a swirling mass of molten iron and nickel, the central core is thought to be a solid phase of iron and nickel. But its still moving about below us. Its solid, but it moves... sort of semi-super-solid?.. again, its difficult to term for us surface dwellers.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 7:59:25 GMT
Technically we don't consider the centre of the planet to be a swirling mass of molten iron and nickel, the central core is thought to be a solid phase of iron and nickel. But its still moving about below us. Its solid, but it moves... sort of semi-super-solid?.. again, its difficult to term for us surface dwellers. No there's a central core that is solid iron nickel, and and outer core that is liquid iron nickel that is under less pressure.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 6, 2017 8:12:33 GMT
Cosmologists theorise that white dwarfs will form Black Dwarf Stars. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dwarfThere has not been enough time in the universe yet for one to form, but they would be very dense with a mostly flat surface. They would not however have enough mass to,form a black,hole. Because they have not yet attracted enough surrounding matter to them. If one collides with another solar system or galaxy, it will "suck in" more matter. The dwarf star does not suddenly gain more Gravity tha not had before, and most Suns like our own do not suck more material in constantly. They form stable systems within thier solar systems and form an equilibrium within the Galaxy . Even when the Mily Way and the Andromeda Galaxy collide the Cosomolfists predict that stellar collisions will be pretty rare. curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/96-the-universe/galaxies/formation-and-evolution/530-what-happens-when-galaxies-collide-beginner
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Post by Lokifan on Mar 6, 2017 8:14:29 GMT
A black hole is not really in the same class as a star. In fact, there's no law that says a black hole must originate as a star.
All a black hole is is just any large amount of matter that generates enough gravity so that its escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. At that point, it becomes a singularity, where it becomes an infinitely small area holding a huge mass, and the laws of physics sort of go out the window inside that singularity. The event horizon is not the surface of the hole, either; it's just an orbit some distance from the singularity. More mass means a larger horizon.
A neutron star is a star in which the protons and electrons of the star are compressed by gravity to form neutrons, and the distance between neutrons is compressed to the point that they're basically touching (limited by the strong nuclear force, if I remember right). It's not dense enough to form a black hole, although it is sometimes described as a nuclei of one extremely large atom with an atomic number of zero.
A white dwarf is just a star that is too small to form a black hole, and too small to sustain nuclear fusion. It eventually loses all it's heat, becoming a black dwarf. That's probably where our Sun will end up.
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