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Post by ironhold on Jul 31, 2017 5:16:25 GMT
www.womenshealthmag.com/food/side-effects-of-vegetarianism?ampTwo studies, one from Germany and one from Australia, are both saying that there are a number of mental health risks associated with dropping meat from one's diet. While there is a "chicken and egg" question about a lot of matters, a leading hypothesis is that many of the people so affected were too quick to drop meat and so didn't plan out ways to supplement their diets accordingly, meaning that they're missing out on key nutrients. Thus, the reported mental health issues may in fact be linked to malnutrition.
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 31, 2017 5:39:23 GMT
www.womenshealthmag.com/food/side-effects-of-vegetarianism?ampTwo studies, one from Germany and one from Australia, are both saying that there are a number of mental health risks associated with dropping meat from one's diet. While there is a "chicken and egg" question about a lot of matters, a leading hypothesis is that many of the people so affected were too quick to drop meat and so didn't plan out ways to supplement their diets accordingly, meaning that they're missing out on key nutrients. Thus, the reported mental health issues may in fact be linked to malnutrition. The incidence of vitamin B12 deficiency anemia and its link to vegetarian and vegan diets is quite well known. I suffer for it for other reasons, but before it was treated by regular vitamin boosters I suffered from various affects muscle fatigue, trembling in the limbs, confusion and beginning to hear voices in my head. Now it's fine the brain and blood are able to create the neural transmitters and correct shaped blood cells that allow things to function properly. This is a list from a vegan website of cases that goes back years, from scientific journals.. veganhealth.org/b12/cases |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 31, 2017 9:14:22 GMT
Ouch.
From experience, "Your on your own", you poke the hornets nest, expect stings?...
However good this subject may be, and I agree, it is definitely worthy of further investigation, I am suspecting you may open yourself up to a LOT of "h@te" by over sensitive vegetarian vegateblist vegans over this.
I think its pretty clear from past posts I have made that there is no love lost either side between me an Omnivore and healthy diet fan of the usual average standing, and those who "Demand" I take their point of view and refuse meat.
However.
As much as I can agree "There is something missing", and cite that my knowledge of one of them imposing a vegan diet on their pet Dog who ended up with serious malnutrition problems, and fully agree that they MUST be careful to supplement their diet with certain food additives to supply the needed vits&mins that are not there in non meat products, I am also aware that they may defend their position quite vocally.
The science is worthy...
The subject may be censored for the show, in that it may be too sensitive to discuss?.
As in, look how "Carefully" the past show danced over Kari's non meat diet requirements?..
And I dont mean in any way they had a problem with it, it was more how they let it be presented to camera without causing a storm?..
They did it rather well, and Kari has never made a fuss, for which she is to be thanked, but she made a stand we can all support that she her self would not tolerate meat consumption but she was happy to handle meat for scientific purposes.
Just how to handle the presentation of such science on the show may be a subject worth discussing that may be a side discussion almost as important as the actual science.
How to do so without miffing off all the Vegetarians who watch the show.
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 31, 2017 11:15:01 GMT
On the other hand it could be informative, and show the need for those that follow such diets to properly supliment their diet.
But to be honest it's not a subject the show could test it would take too long, in my case I went into hospital with gastric pains cause Unknown, it was not until 5 years later the symptoms began to manifest. What had happened is thecells in the gut that excrete the Intrinsic Factor ( that's it's name) that allows digestion of B12 had packed up.
The liver in particular holds a store of B12, it's not until until that runs dry you get problems that is about 4-5 years or so I was told.
It's like the coolant tank in the car, it's fine until it runs dry.
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2017 14:27:26 GMT
Ouch. From experience, "Your on your own", you poke the hornets nest, expect stings?... However good this subject may be, and I agree, it is definitely worthy of further investigation, I am suspecting you may open yourself up to a LOT of "h@te" by over sensitive vegetarian vegateblist vegans over this. I think its pretty clear from past posts I have made that there is no love lost either side between me an Omnivore and healthy diet fan of the usual average standing, and those who "Demand" I take their point of view and refuse meat. However. As much as I can agree "There is something missing", and cite that my knowledge of one of them imposing a vegan diet on their pet Dog who ended up with serious malnutrition problems, and fully agree that they MUST be careful to supplement their diet with certain food additives to supply the needed vits&mins that are not there in non meat products, I am also aware that they may defend their position quite vocally. The science is worthy... The subject may be censored for the show, in that it may be too sensitive to discuss?. As in, look how "Carefully" the past show danced over Kari's non meat diet requirements?.. And I dont mean in any way they had a problem with it, it was more how they let it be presented to camera without causing a storm?.. They did it rather well, and Kari has never made a fuss, for which she is to be thanked, but she made a stand we can all support that she her self would not tolerate meat consumption but she was happy to handle meat for scientific purposes. Just how to handle the presentation of such science on the show may be a subject worth discussing that may be a side discussion almost as important as the actual science. How to do so without miffing off all the Vegetarians who watch the show. to the best of my understanding (as it was not much discussed) Kari was what I classify as an "icky-vegetarian" which is a person who does not eat meat because they find it icky. this is the type of vegetarian that I expect to be the most prone to dietary deficiencies - as many of them take their vegetarianism no further than to eat the same as any other person but skip the meat, much like the American redneck diet skips the vegetables. (and also has dietary deficiencies) (note that I had no reason to suspect Kari was not making the effort to eat a complete diet) the bigger challenge, to me, would be how to present it in such a way as to make it a mythbusters show, and not a slightly more legitimate Dr. Oz show. bottom line from my understanding, it is possible for a human to eat a nutritionally complete diet without eating "animal" products - defining yeast as a not-animal. it is also possible for a dog, but not for a cat. - cats are obligate carnivores, and there are some amino acids they require that cannot be synthesized other than from animal flesh. however, humans are true omnivores, and their optimal diet includes a little bit of everything. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 31, 2017 14:38:01 GMT
A lot of 'icky vegetarians' though are willing to eat things like dairy products and eggs that a stricter vegetarian will not, and these can provide some of the dietary needs that not eating meat causes.
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2017 15:26:18 GMT
A lot of 'icky vegetarians' though are willing to eat things like dairy products and eggs that a stricter vegetarian will not, and these can provide some of the dietary needs that not eating meat causes. perhaps I did not phrase that in the best way - I meant that icky vegetarians are likely to have a higher proportion of people who do not pay any attention to eating a complete diet, anyway. |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 31, 2017 16:25:36 GMT
to the best of my understanding (as it was not much discussed) Kari was what I classify as an "icky-vegetarian" which is a person who does not eat meat because they find it icky. this is the type of vegetarian that I expect to be the most prone to dietary deficiencies - as many of them take their vegetarianism no further than to eat the same as any other person but skip the meat, much like the American redneck diet skips the vegetables. (and also has dietary deficiencies) (note that I had no reason to suspect Kari was not making the effort to eat a complete diet) In the case of the "redneck" diet, however, some people who observe it do so because of poverty: they can get all the meat they want for just a little effort and the occasional shotgun shell, but would need assistance to get daily things from the store above and beyond the bare minimum. If you look at a lot of popular "Southern" dishes, like biscuits & gravy, the idea is "most calories you can get as cheaply as possible using whatever was commonly available". |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 31, 2017 21:06:35 GMT
to the best of my understanding (as it was not much discussed) Kari was what I classify as an "icky-vegetarian" which is a person who does not eat meat because they find it icky. this is the type of vegetarian that I expect to be the most prone to dietary deficiencies - as many of them take their vegetarianism no further than to eat the same as any other person but skip the meat, much like the American redneck diet skips the vegetables. (and also has dietary deficiencies) (note that I had no reason to suspect Kari was not making the effort to eat a complete diet) In the case of the "redneck" diet, however, some people who observe it do so because of poverty: they can get all the meat they want for just a little effort and the occasional shotgun shell, but would need assistance to get daily things from the store above and beyond the bare minimum. If you look at a lot of popular "Southern" dishes, like biscuits & gravy, the idea is "most calories you can get as cheaply as possible using whatever was commonly available". Reminds me of the type of diet my Gran from Scotland used to serve, Clootie dumplings and sugar sandwiches. |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 31, 2017 21:52:29 GMT
In the case of the "redneck" diet, however, some people who observe it do so because of poverty: they can get all the meat they want for just a little effort and the occasional shotgun shell, but would need assistance to get daily things from the store above and beyond the bare minimum. If you look at a lot of popular "Southern" dishes, like biscuits & gravy, the idea is "most calories you can get as cheaply as possible using whatever was commonly available". Reminds me of the type of diet my Gran from Scotland used to serve, Clootie dumplings and sugar sandwiches. American-style biscuits are flour-based bread rolls the size of large scones. The gravy that goes with them is a "white" gravy that includes seasonings, additional flour for thickening, and very often ground meat included right in the mix. Some formulations will use fat as the base, while others like the above-linked recipe use dairy. All of the ingredients would have been cheap and handy back in the day, hence why it was so common. And since you had both starch *and* meat, it could be a meal unto itself. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 31, 2017 22:20:49 GMT
Reminds me of the type of diet my Gran from Scotland used to serve, Clootie dumplings and sugar sandwiches. American-style biscuits are flour-based bread rolls the size of large scones. The gravy that goes with them is a "white" gravy that includes seasonings, additional flour for thickening, and very often ground meat included right in the mix. Some formulations will use fat as the base, while others like the above-linked recipe use dairy. All of the ingredients would have been cheap and handy back in the day, hence why it was so common. And since you had both starch *and* meat, it could be a meal unto itself. I have eaten buscuits , in a diner in Orlando, we did the Disney thing one year, they were nice but I could not get use to the gravy, I prefer a dark demigkaze myself. For us it would be "Tiad in the Hole" sausages cooked in a flour batter with onion gravy. www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/5822/toad-in-the-hole-in-4-easy-stepsOr a bacon and onion rolly prolly, make a suet pastry and roll it flat cut up bacon and onion and then make a Swiss roll (jelly roll) type affair.and steam it. But for real cheap food the it was bread and dripping, pork or beef fat. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dripping |
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Post by the light works on Aug 1, 2017 0:37:32 GMT
to the best of my understanding (as it was not much discussed) Kari was what I classify as an "icky-vegetarian" which is a person who does not eat meat because they find it icky. this is the type of vegetarian that I expect to be the most prone to dietary deficiencies - as many of them take their vegetarianism no further than to eat the same as any other person but skip the meat, much like the American redneck diet skips the vegetables. (and also has dietary deficiencies) (note that I had no reason to suspect Kari was not making the effort to eat a complete diet) In the case of the "redneck" diet, however, some people who observe it do so because of poverty: they can get all the meat they want for just a little effort and the occasional shotgun shell, but would need assistance to get daily things from the store above and beyond the bare minimum. If you look at a lot of popular "Southern" dishes, like biscuits & gravy, the idea is "most calories you can get as cheaply as possible using whatever was commonly available". cabbage is a lot cheaper than sausage. |
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Post by ironhold on Aug 1, 2017 2:44:14 GMT
In the case of the "redneck" diet, however, some people who observe it do so because of poverty: they can get all the meat they want for just a little effort and the occasional shotgun shell, but would need assistance to get daily things from the store above and beyond the bare minimum. If you look at a lot of popular "Southern" dishes, like biscuits & gravy, the idea is "most calories you can get as cheaply as possible using whatever was commonly available". cabbage is a lot cheaper than sausage. Not of it's an area where it's not common. |
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 1, 2017 14:46:37 GMT
I have Kari as one of the "Following" on my Twitter feed. A couple of days ago, she posted a picture of a canned product... Vegetarian Haggis. This, I believe, may take you to the post, one she "re-posted" from someone else, I think Dallas Campbell, or Eric Grey?.. Veg HaggisAs yet I have to have any reply, which I must accept that she maybe not answering, but I did send a reply "How can it be Haggis if its meat free?..", as haggis is about the meat inside not just the oats and other ingredients, and traditionally its all stuffed in a cows or sheep's stomach anyway... |
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 1, 2017 14:59:02 GMT
As for our own diet...
My family never truly went short.
My grandparents during the war years kept livestock and grew vegetables. Never did get round to using the ration stamps.. and when they did, they were probably swapped with someone who wanted them for something else we needed tat wasnt food related?.
There was a fair amount of "Bartering" going on, that those who kept Chickens could swap one for a leg of pork, keep the chicken and feed it for a few days until the pork they had themselves had been consumed, and then they had fresh chicken for the week after...
Fresh poultry was akin to having a freezer, you could keep it for weeks until you needed it?..
Which leads to an old family joke..
1}"How long does a chicken last in a deep freeze...?.."
2}"Depends on the freezer, but usually about 3 months... why do you ask?..
1]"Well I put one in yesterday...."
2] "And?.."
1]"Well it died...."
This was in a room full of family, said all serious and deadpan, and it reduced us all to tears of laughter.
So for survival rations, being we had about 10 yards from back door to garden veg patch, we never did go truly short.
Thats one of the better parts of being bought up in the quieter parts of a village not far from a town that wasnt in those days part of Manchester.
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Post by the light works on Aug 1, 2017 16:19:36 GMT
As for our own diet... My family never truly went short. My grandparents during the war years kept livestock and grew vegetables. Never did get round to using the ration stamps.. and when they did, they were probably swapped with someone who wanted them for something else we needed tat wasnt food related?. There was a fair amount of "Bartering" going on, that those who kept Chickens could swap one for a leg of pork, keep the chicken and feed it for a few days until the pork they had themselves had been consumed, and then they had fresh chicken for the week after... Fresh poultry was akin to having a freezer, you could keep it for weeks until you needed it?.. Which leads to an old family joke.. 1}"How long does a chicken last in a deep freeze...?.." 2}"Depends on the freezer, but usually about 3 months... why do you ask?.. 1]"Well I put one in yesterday...." 2] "And?.." 1]"Well it died...." This was in a room full of family, said all serious and deadpan, and it reduced us all to tears of laughter. So for survival rations, being we had about 10 yards from back door to garden veg patch, we never did go truly short. Thats one of the better parts of being bought up in the quieter parts of a village not far from a town that wasnt in those days part of Manchester. the garden was 100 feet long and some 20 feet wide. the cow lived in the lower pasture. chickens actually last longer in the freezer, if you have clever predators around. whatever it was knew how to get into the henhouse without leaving an opening. |
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 2, 2017 7:58:35 GMT
whatever it was knew how to get into the henhouse without leaving an opening.
I am thinking "Polecat", ferret, something like that...
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Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2017 13:26:12 GMT
whatever it was knew how to get into the henhouse without leaving an opening. I am thinking "Polecat", ferret, something like that... yeah, knew we couldn't catch it, so we put the chickens in the freezer. |
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Post by mrfatso on Aug 2, 2017 13:53:24 GMT
My Dad was brought up,in the "Dig for Victory" era we always had a vegetable garden, and Blackcurrant bushes, raspberry canes strawberry plants .
My Uncle used to,have hutches of rabbits at the end of his garden,,some he sold as pets some for the pot.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 3, 2017 6:09:55 GMT
My Dad was brought up,in the "Dig for Victory" era we always had a vegetable garden, and Blackcurrant bushes, raspberry canes strawberry plants . My Uncle used to,have hutches of rabbits at the end of his garden,,some he sold as pets some for the pot. We used to go "Lamping" with a .22 air rifle, in the local fields... Strap a torch to the underside of the barrel, and the air rifle because it didnt scare too many away, used to come back with a bagful, the farmer was always happy to have rodent control, and we got a free supper?.. swap out one or two for another bagful of veg at the back door of the farmhouse on the way down from the hills, early morning... did he ever sleep?.. We always did that, the farmer got free wabbit, and it saved us carrying the veg from the field.... |
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