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Post by the light works on Sept 13, 2017 9:59:25 GMT
Never thought of that... but then again, I dont do that much heavy construction?. yeah, most people don't need temporary bulbs.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 13, 2017 12:14:27 GMT
I consider all incandescent bulbs temporary.
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 13, 2017 13:16:24 GMT
One thing I will say about LED bulbs is that they are much more shock proof than traditional or CFL bulbs. I have broken many bulbs in my time by dropping or rough handling. I droped a LED bulb from 8 ft ontp concrete and it worked just fine. No way a traditional or CFL bulb would survive that.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 13, 2017 21:42:10 GMT
One thing I will say about LED bulbs is that they are much more shock proof than traditional or CFL bulbs. I have broken many bulbs in my time by dropping or rough handling. I droped a LED bulb from 8 ft ontp concrete and it worked just fine. No way a traditional or CFL bulb would survive that. True, they are more shock resistant than any other type of bulb I've ever come across and that's a huge advantage, but there are a few other things I don't like about LED bulbs. First of all, the color. Many LED bulbs give off a color of light that's way too much in the blue range. It gives the lighting a clinical feel that's just not comfortable for the eyes for extended periods of time. It's getting better with each new generation that comes out, but the way things are now, I still don't use LEDs in my living room or bedroom. Those are places where I need warm lighting that doesn't bother my eyes and for that, incandescent, CFL or halogen is still superior to most LEDs. Another thing is shadows. Some LED bulbs - especially those made to replace or resemble florescent tubes - have multiple LEDs arranged in a pattern where you don't get the light coming from one large source, but from multiple smaller sources that don't seem to converge quite right. This creates an effect where the light is directed in such a way that each LED casts a separate shadow. I recently bought a new desk lamp. It's a very simple and elegant stainless steel design with a stand, a tube going up about 10 inches, a hinge and swivel at the end of it, another 8-10 inch tube with an LED strip inside and then an on/off button at the end of that tube. The LED strip has 10 LEDs evenly spaced at about 1/4 inch apart. On my desk, right next to the lamp, I have a globe. When I turn the lamp on, the LEDs are spaced such that each of them throws light in a different direction, making 10 different shadows of the globe on the wall beside it. It looks sort of like a layer cake or a rainbow of shadows with one big solid one and then 9 more gradually fading out to the sides. It just looks weird and can actually be quite a distraction. I've seen similar things with LED bulbs designed to replace halogen spots. The ones I have in my kitchen now have the LEDs arranged as a 5-point cross in the middle with two parentheses-like arches of 5 LEDs each on either side of the cross. That appears to be the right way to do it to get the same lighting (and shading) effect as the halogen spots they're designed to replace. The ones I had before that did something similar to what I described above, except they made a more circular pattern of "extra shadows" around any object between the bulb and the surface behind the object. If you set a bottle on the table, it would have shadows going in 8 different directions on the table and the wall behind it. That just looked eerie and wrong, like a giant, shadowy nightmare spider was hiding behind the bottle with its legs sticking out in all directions. As the designs keep getting better, I'm sure we'll end up just calling them "light bulbs" some day, because at that point there won't be any alternatives anymore, so the adage "LED" will become superfluous, but for now, incandescents, CFLs and halogens still have a place in the world. At least they do in my home.
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Post by the light works on Sept 13, 2017 22:13:56 GMT
One thing I will say about LED bulbs is that they are much more shock proof than traditional or CFL bulbs. I have broken many bulbs in my time by dropping or rough handling. I droped a LED bulb from 8 ft ontp concrete and it worked just fine. No way a traditional or CFL bulb would survive that. True, they are more shock resistant than any other type of bulb I've ever come across and that's a huge advantage, but there are a few other things I don't like about LED bulbs. First of all, the color. Many LED bulbs give off a color of light that's way too much in the blue range. It gives the lighting a clinical feel that's just not comfortable for the eyes for extended periods of time. It's getting better with each new generation that comes out, but the way things are now, I still don't use LEDs in my living room or bedroom. Those are places where I need warm lighting that doesn't bother my eyes and for that, incandescent, CFL or halogen is still superior to most LEDs. Another thing is shadows. Some LED bulbs - especially those made to replace or resemble florescent tubes - have multiple LEDs arranged in a pattern where you don't get the light coming from one large source, but from multiple smaller sources that don't seem to converge quite right. This creates an effect where the light is directed in such a way that each LED casts a separate shadow. I recently bought a new desk lamp. It's a very simple and elegant stainless steel design with a stand, a tube going up about 10 inches, a hinge and swivel at the end of it, another 8-10 inch tube with an LED strip inside and then an on/off button at the end of that tube. The LED strip has 10 LEDs evenly spaced at about 1/4 inch apart. On my desk, right next to the lamp, I have a globe. When I turn the lamp on, the LEDs are spaced such that each of them throws light in a different direction, making 10 different shadows of the globe on the wall beside it. It looks sort of like a layer cake or a rainbow of shadows with one big solid one and then 9 more gradually fading out to the sides. It just looks weird and can actually be quite a distraction. I've seen similar things with LED bulbs designed to replace halogen spots. The ones I have in my kitchen now have the LEDs arranged as a 5-point cross in the middle with two parentheses-like arches of 5 LEDs each on either side of the cross. That appears to be the right way to do it to get the same lighting (and shading) effect as the halogen spots they're designed to replace. The ones I had before that did something similar to what I described above, except they made a more circular pattern of "extra shadows" around any object between the bulb and the surface behind the object. If you set a bottle on the table, it would have shadows going in 8 different directions on the table and the wall behind it. That just looked eerie and wrong, like a giant, shadowy nightmare spider was hiding behind the bottle with its legs sticking out in all directions. As the designs keep getting better, I'm sure we'll end up just calling them "light bulbs" some day, because at that point there won't be any alternatives anymore, so the adage "LED" will become superfluous, but for now, incandescents, CFLs and halogens still have a place in the world. At least they do in my home. the other advantage to LEDs is that many of them are now made to have a bigger voltage tolerance than other bulbs also, on the diode payout, a lot of ours use a near UV diode driving a fluorescing panel, which means you can buy them in your preferred color, and many of them just have one bigger light source. we even have ones that have a "filament" design so they look like antique bulbs. the tubes are available with a frosted shell, which helps diffuse the multi shadow effect, too.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 13, 2017 22:37:43 GMT
Some led bulbs are just designed better than others. Just looking at the led fluorescent tube replacements that I bought, you can't tell they aren't fluorescent tubes. The light output is uniform across the entire length of the tube. You also have to be observant about the color temperature of the led lamps you buy. If you want something the same as an incandescent bulb, look for a color temperature of 27OO to 3000 degrees K. A 4000º bulb is about the same as a "cool white" fluorescent and 5000 to 7000 is super white, almost bluish.
I recently saw some LED lamps that change color temperature as you dim them. They become "warmer" (lower color temperature) as they dim. Some of these work quite well at reproducing a dimming incandescent bulb. Others, not so much. With some, it's very obvious when they switch over to a lower temperature.
I'm pretty happy with the led bulbs. Except for a couple of appliance bulbs, about 75% of the lights in the house are now led. The rest are CFL. And when those burn out, they'll all be replaced with led. The only high wattage halogen bulb I have left is the underwater swimming pool light and as soon as I find an led replacement for that, it's gone too.
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Post by the light works on Sept 13, 2017 23:45:30 GMT
Some led bulbs are just designed better than others. Just looking at the led fluorescent tube replacements that I bought, you can't tell they aren't fluorescent tubes. The light output is uniform across the entire length of the tube. You also have to be observant about the color temperature of the led lamps you buy. If you want something the same as an incandescent bulb, look for a color temperature of 27OO to 3000 degrees K. A 4000º bulb is about the same as a "cool white" fluorescent and 5000 to 7000 is super white, almost bluish. I recently saw some LED lamps that change color temperature as you dim them. They become "warmer" (lower color temperature) as they dim. Some of these work quite well at reproducing a dimming incandescent bulb. Others, not so much. With some, it's very obvious when they switch over to a lower temperature. I'm pretty happy with the led bulbs. Except for a couple of appliance bulbs, about 75% of the lights in the house are now led. The rest are CFL. And when those burn out, they'll all be replaced with led. The only high wattage halogen bulb I have left is the underwater swimming pool light and as soon as I find an led replacement for that, it's gone too. I saw they also have ones that mimic 3-way bulb performance in a standard socket. you toggle them by bouncing the switch off and on again.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 14, 2017 7:33:46 GMT
One thing I will say about LED bulbs is that they are much more shock proof than traditional or CFL bulbs. I have broken many bulbs in my time by dropping or rough handling. I droped a LED bulb from 8 ft ontp concrete and it worked just fine. No way a traditional or CFL bulb would survive that. I have a "New-ish" torch, its swivel head and has a tripod built into the handle, that on first sight looked way too large to hold just two "AA" size batteries, but on use is "Just about right" to handle and be of the right size. It fell off the top of a cupboard whilst I was sorting out why the lights had failed in my workshop... blown fuse in the plug, the plug for the wiring is up there. Anyways, 10ft drop to concrete. I was sure it was toast?. It was still lit, works just fine, cant even see any dent? any other torch I have had would have been brush up the pieces, or as you suggest, blown bulb?.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 14, 2017 7:39:40 GMT
Appliance bulbs. I have an oven light, its a sort of Pygmy bulb that is designed for "hot" places, I have yet to find an LED replacement for that. Any suggestions?.. And then, what do you think, would Hot working conditions "melt" a LED?..
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 14, 2017 13:12:44 GMT
Incandescent bulbs love heat. In fact, they operate on heat. The working part of an incandescent bulb doesn't start emitting light until it's well above the temperature you normally find in an oven. Electronic components, on the other hand, do not like heat. Most will self distruct above 150° C. And a light emitting diode is an electronic component. You may find that some newer ovens will start using LEDs for lighting but they will do so by mounting the LED in a cooler location and then somehow transferring the light into the oven. I think it will be a long time before you see a general LED pop-in replacement for an oven light bulb.
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Post by the light works on Sept 14, 2017 13:55:17 GMT
Appliance bulbs. I have an oven light, its a sort of Pygmy bulb that is designed for "hot" places, I have yet to find an LED replacement for that. Any suggestions?.. And then, what do you think, would Hot working conditions "melt" a LED?.. like Greg said (and I said earlier) heat is the enemy of LEDs. it will fail very quickly.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 15, 2017 5:45:18 GMT
This is what I was thinking, it will be too hot for an LED, so thanks for confirming that one....
I may have to work on an idea of having a LED flat mounted to the door, which is glass, and see if that works. The door gets hand-hot, obviously, but not melt yer finger hot....?..
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Post by the light works on Sept 15, 2017 13:55:16 GMT
This is what I was thinking, it will be too hot for an LED, so thanks for confirming that one.... I may have to work on an idea of having a LED flat mounted to the door, which is glass, and see if that works. The door gets hand-hot, obviously, but not melt yer finger hot....?.. the other side of that coin is, how many hours per month do you have your oven light on? I haven't SWITCHED my oven light on in such a long time, I don't even remember how to do it. which means that it is only on for the minute or so a day I have the door open. that means I burn about a quarter of a kilowatt hour per year.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 16, 2017 5:52:17 GMT
This is what I was thinking, it will be too hot for an LED, so thanks for confirming that one.... I may have to work on an idea of having a LED flat mounted to the door, which is glass, and see if that works. The door gets hand-hot, obviously, but not melt yer finger hot....?.. the other side of that coin is, how many hours per month do you have your oven light on? I haven't SWITCHED my oven light on in such a long time, I don't even remember how to do it. which means that it is only on for the minute or so a day I have the door open. that means I burn about a quarter of a kilowatt hour per year. Maybe SD has the same kind of oven I have where the lights turn on as soon as the oven does. There's no stand alone off switch for the lights. Still, the bulbs in my oven are the same type as most refrigerators use and there are only two of them. My oven runs at 2000W and each bulb only requires 15W, meaning they're responsible for 0.015% of the oven's overall power consumption. I don't think switching those bulbs out for LEDs will make that big of a difference on the electric bill. It's certainly not the first place I would look to save money.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 16, 2017 8:14:11 GMT
the other side of that coin is, how many hours per month do you have your oven light on? I haven't SWITCHED my oven light on in such a long time, I don't even remember how to do it. which means that it is only on for the minute or so a day I have the door open. that means I burn about a quarter of a kilowatt hour per year. Maybe SD has the same kind of oven I have where the lights turn on as soon as the oven does. There's no stand alone off switch for the lights. Still, the bulbs in my oven are the same type as most refrigerators use and there are only two of them. My oven runs at 2000W and each bulb only requires 15W, meaning they're responsible for 0.015% of the oven's overall power consumption. I don't think switching those bulbs out for LEDs will make that big of a difference on the electric bill. It's certainly not the first place I would look to save money. The lights work as soon as the oven is on. And stay on until you turn the oven off. I am on my third bulb in 5 years?.. they dont tend to last that long. How do I know its 3-in-5?. Welll...... "Some-timers" senior moment time?. You remember me saying I had a tidyup?. They come two in a pack, and I never can find "The other one" when I go looking, so I end up buying new, and shoving the pack in the cupboard with the other bulbs. During the tidy up, I found three packs with one bulb missing... and the receipts for all three. However.... I did discover something interesting. Last time I changed the bulb, I dropped the cover, which is toughened glass, into a pot full of "Line cleaner", caustic soda, and it turns out its supposed to be a "white" light, and not tinted orange?. We do clean the oven on a regular basis, but, we do NOT throw cleaning fluid around the electronics, so gradually over time, it has become a little caked in oven debris?. The annoying part is that the cover for the light pokes through the cover for the fan... its a fan assisted oven. You have to unscrew the four retaining screws and remove the fan cover to be able to unscrew the cover to unscrew the bulb and replace it. All that with no light?. Screwdriver?... check. Re-Charge the fat battery on that. Torch?.. check. Find replacement batteries as thats flat as well, and the bloody kids who were last to use it "Never said anything".... Lie flat on the ground upside down or try and stoop down and get inside the oven?. Remove all shelves, try not to put too much weight on the door.... Ya know, getting a small LED torch device to hug the door handle and point inwards may not be that much of a bad idea?. NEXT time I plan a kitchen, I am going to get the Oven put in higher up, where its easier to get inside the bloody thing. One of them tilt-and-slide doors as well, they look useful.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 16, 2017 8:19:15 GMT
What has all this to do with climate change and saving money?> Having an oven light, knowing that the stuff inside is "cooked", being able to turn the oven ↓ ↓ down ↓ ↓ whilst you wait for everything else to catch up or the kids to get to the table, that saves money?.. Plus the light produces heat, so thats part of heating up the oven anyway?.
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Post by the light works on Sept 16, 2017 8:21:01 GMT
Maybe SD has the same kind of oven I have where the lights turn on as soon as the oven does. There's no stand alone off switch for the lights. Still, the bulbs in my oven are the same type as most refrigerators use and there are only two of them. My oven runs at 2000W and each bulb only requires 15W, meaning they're responsible for 0.015% of the oven's overall power consumption. I don't think switching those bulbs out for LEDs will make that big of a difference on the electric bill. It's certainly not the first place I would look to save money. The lights work as soon as the oven is on. And stay on until you turn the oven off. I am on my third bulb in 5 years?.. they dont tend to last that long. How do I know its 3-in-5?. Welll...... "Some-timers" senior moment time?. You remember me saying I had a tidyup?. They come two in a pack, and I never can find "The other one" when I go looking, so I end up buying new, and shoving the pack in the cupboard with the other bulbs. During the tidy up, I found three packs with one bulb missing... and the receipts for all three. However.... I did discover something interesting. Last time I changed the bulb, I dropped the cover, which is toughened glass, into a pot full of "Line cleaner", caustic soda, and it turns out its supposed to be a "white" light, and not tinted orange?. We do clean the oven on a regular basis, but, we do NOT throw cleaning fluid around the electronics, so gradually over time, it has become a little caked in oven debris?. The annoying part is that the cover for the light pokes through the cover for the fan... its a fan assisted oven. You have to unscrew the four retaining screws and remove the fan cover to be able to unscrew the cover to unscrew the bulb and replace it. All that with no light?. Screwdriver?... check. Re-Charge the fat battery on that. Torch?.. check. Find replacement batteries as thats flat as well, and the bloody kids who were last to use it "Never said anything".... Lie flat on the ground upside down or try and stoop down and get inside the oven?. Remove all shelves, try not to put too much weight on the door.... Ya know, getting a small LED torch device to hug the door handle and point inwards may not be that much of a bad idea?. NEXT time I plan a kitchen, I am going to get the Oven put in higher up, where its easier to get inside the bloody thing. One of them tilt-and-slide doors as well, they look useful. well, that's a stupid control scheme. the cake's not afraid of the dark.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 16, 2017 8:53:03 GMT
The Cake is a lie.
Plus, people leave ovens on. Having a light in there reminds people the oven is on. Having a Fan running as well, ours is not annoying, but its still noisy, and that also reminds people [kids...] that they turned it on for some strange reason, oh, yeah, they are cooking chicken nuggets.....
My kids are old enough to use the kitchen, but only just old enough to remember to turn things off after use?.
After all, what is a hallway light if it cant be left on all night anyway?.
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Post by the light works on Sept 16, 2017 13:01:41 GMT
The Cake is a lie. Plus, people leave ovens on. Having a light in there reminds people the oven is on. Having a Fan running as well, ours is not annoying, but its still noisy, and that also reminds people [kids...] that they turned it on for some strange reason, oh, yeah, they are cooking chicken nuggets..... My kids are old enough to use the kitchen, but only just old enough to remember to turn things off after use?. After all, what is a hallway light if it cant be left on all night anyway?. the bathroom light switch has been broken for over a year. but it's not like it ever gets turned off, anyway.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 16, 2017 13:32:20 GMT
well, that's a stupid control scheme. the cake's not afraid of the dark. Which do you think is the bigger waste of power? Having to open the oven door every time you want to check on whatever's in there, which lets heat escape, so the oven has to heat back up to the right temperature, or letting one or two 15W bulbs light the inside of the oven while it's on, so you can look through the glass and see what's happening without having to open the door? And before you say, "But... Oven timer...", not every meal you cook will need the exact same amount of time. Sometimes it cooks faster than you expect and sometimes slower, especially when we're talking meat, so there are some things you'll have to check on to see if they're done. I make the claim that light inside and a glass door you can look through saves more power than having to open the oven multiple times to check.
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