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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 2:29:37 GMT
they have just released the news that there is an approved genetic therapy that is effective against childhood lukemia. apparently there are still side effects, and it costs over a million dollars, for the treatment. If it's effective, it will probably save money in the long run. And hopefully, the cost will come down as the methods are perfected.
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Post by the light works on Aug 31, 2017 2:48:28 GMT
they have just released the news that there is an approved genetic therapy that is effective against childhood lukemia. apparently there are still side effects, and it costs over a million dollars, for the treatment. If it's effective, it will probably save money in the long run. And hopefully, the cost will come down as the methods are perfected. depending on how long the child would have survived without it. yeah, I know, what price do you put on a child's life. but considering the median wage in the US is under $50,000 a year, that means 20 years of one parent's ENTIRE income before taxes to pay it off. and what are you going to do - say no and let your child die? I'm not sure which is more cruel - not having the cure, or not being able to refuse it.
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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 2:53:40 GMT
If it's effective, it will probably save money in the long run. And hopefully, the cost will come down as the methods are perfected. depending on how long the child would have survived without it. yeah, I know, what price do you put on a child's life. but considering the median wage in the US is under $50,000 a year, that means 20 years of one parent's ENTIRE income before taxes to pay it off. and what are you going to do - say no and let your child die? I'm not sure which is more cruel - not having the cure, or not being able to refuse it. I guess that is the time you learn to prefect your negotiating skills.
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Post by the light works on Aug 31, 2017 2:57:50 GMT
depending on how long the child would have survived without it. yeah, I know, what price do you put on a child's life. but considering the median wage in the US is under $50,000 a year, that means 20 years of one parent's ENTIRE income before taxes to pay it off. and what are you going to do - say no and let your child die? I'm not sure which is more cruel - not having the cure, or not being able to refuse it. I guess that is the time you learn to prefect your negotiating skills. by which you mean begging.
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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 3:12:03 GMT
I guess that is the time you learn to prefect your negotiating skills. by which you mean begging. As they say, all options are on the table.
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Post by the light works on Aug 31, 2017 13:55:16 GMT
by which you mean begging. As they say, all options are on the table. no, for most americans, there is no variant of paying out of their own resources, on the table.
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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 14:15:47 GMT
That simply isn't true. There are many organizations that help out in situations like this. Shriners Hospital is one of them.
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Post by the light works on Aug 31, 2017 14:42:52 GMT
That simply isn't true. There are many organizations that help out in situations like this. Shriners Hospital is one of them. that is a charitable organization, not the customer's own resources. interestingly, it is on the news this morning - the actual list price is $475,000.00, and you only pay if it works. their next step is they think it can be adapted to be effective on other ailments. the mechanics of it is that it is a genetic therapy that reprograms your immune system to attack the targeted cells - in the current case, the leukemia cells. of course, the patient must be monitored, during the treatment, because breaking down and eliminating the resultant dead cells causes its own medical trouble.
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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 14:51:29 GMT
This genetics therapy seems to be promising for many diseases that were previously untreatable. Let's hope they can make some major breakthroughs.
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Post by the light works on Aug 31, 2017 14:54:33 GMT
This genetics therapy seems to be promising for many diseases that were previously untreatable. Let's hope they can make some major breakthroughs. now if we could just make some breakthroughs in the concept of life saving medicine being a part of the right to life.
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Post by GTCGreg on Aug 31, 2017 14:58:55 GMT
This genetics therapy seems to be promising for many diseases that were previously untreatable. Let's hope they can make some major breakthroughs. now if we could just make some breakthroughs in the concept of life saving medicine being a part of the right to life. No argument from me on that.
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 1, 2017 17:54:09 GMT
TANSTAAFL.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
A rather brilliant niece of a friend of mine just got her degree in biological engineering. She works in this field, engineering to make the next miracle drug via CRISPR and other methods.
Quite frankly, she may work her entire career and never produce a useful product, except in the case of "Okay, now we know that doesn't work".
That's the way science works. You come up with a hypothesis, and often disprove it.
Someone's got to pay for her time spent in the lab, along with the thousands of other folks in her company. In short, she has to eat, too.
When you pay for a treatment, you're paying for the ones that failed as well as the success.
And a success usually leads to more success, so the million dollar treatment of today will be optimized to be the half million treatment of tomorrow, and (with time and hope) the OTC version in the future (if you're lucky).
Customizing genetic medicine to individuals is definitely a breakthrough in medical science, and a field in it's infancy. Give it time.
Think of the difference as being buying a bare bones Kia off the lot vs. having Rolls Royce hand build you a custom car. That's why the price will be high.
However, the technology used in the Rolls usually trickles down to the Kia, eventually.
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Post by the light works on Sept 2, 2017 0:55:39 GMT
TANSTAAFL. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. A rather brilliant niece of a friend of mine just got her degree in biological engineering. She works in this field, engineering to make the next miracle drug via CRISPR and other methods. Quite frankly, she may work her entire career and never produce a useful product, except in the case of "Okay, now we know that doesn't work". That's the way science works. You come up with a hypothesis, and often disprove it. Someone's got to pay for her time spent in the lab, along with the thousands of other folks in her company. In short, she has to eat, too. When you pay for a treatment, you're paying for the ones that failed as well as the success. And a success usually leads to more success, so the million dollar treatment of today will be optimized to be the half million treatment of tomorrow, and (with time and hope) the OTC version in the future (if you're lucky). Customizing genetic medicine to individuals is definitely a breakthrough in medical science, and a field in it's infancy. Give it time. Think of the difference as being buying a bare bones Kia off the lot vs. having Rolls Royce hand build you a custom car. That's why the price will be high. However, the technology used in the Rolls usually trickles down to the Kia, eventually. except, last I checked, nobody had died from not being able to afford a rolls royce.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 2, 2017 7:55:55 GMT
TANSTAAFL. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. A rather brilliant niece of a friend of mine just got her degree in biological engineering. She works in this field, engineering to make the next miracle drug via CRISPR and other methods. Quite frankly, she may work her entire career and never produce a useful product, except in the case of "Okay, now we know that doesn't work". That's the way science works. You come up with a hypothesis, and often disprove it. Someone's got to pay for her time spent in the lab, along with the thousands of other folks in her company. In short, she has to eat, too. When you pay for a treatment, you're paying for the ones that failed as well as the success. And a success usually leads to more success, so the million dollar treatment of today will be optimized to be the half million treatment of tomorrow, and (with time and hope) the OTC version in the future (if you're lucky). Customizing genetic medicine to individuals is definitely a breakthrough in medical science, and a field in it's infancy. Give it time. Think of the difference as being buying a bare bones Kia off the lot vs. having Rolls Royce hand build you a custom car. That's why the price will be high. However, the technology used in the Rolls usually trickles down to the Kia, eventually. except, last I checked, nobody had died from not being able to afford a rolls royce. Erm, yeah, but?... Me and a few "mates" went a racing at a race track, and we drove cars that had "Air-bags" in them. Yeah, we had 5point full harness with that head restraint thing HARMS, but the cars were fitted with Air Bags... You can date this escapade by checking out when Airbags trickled down from "Expensive" cars to the type available for Track racing. They were not actually in the cars we were racing, "For safety reasons", as it is accepted that touring car racing is a contact sport, but the cars brand new would have had them fitted. Unfortunately, I can point at many thousands of deaths from cars that did not have modern safety equipment like airbags, Side Impact Protection, suitable roll cages..... Take a rolls and a Mk1 dodge challenger and set them at 40mph into a brick wall. Buster will tell you who will walk away and who will need several hours of expensive A&E care to keep them alive?. This isnt just about Rolls, its about all cars. My current car is NCap 5 star.... The "Smart" car barely scrapes a 3. The difference is at 60mph, I will walk, the "smart" may kill. The more expensive the car, the better your chance is at survivability.... And, ALL of this, is related to me and my mates going racing on a track and looking at the type of impacts that survive a season on a race track.... the technology is developed there and "Trickles down" to road cars. At 140mph, up to 200mph, I know Lewis Hamilton will walk away from many impacts in his F1 car.... most cars I pass on the road today will crumple-apse-wreck into a ball of recycling in a similar impact, but how many millions to rebuild an F1 car?. what is it about 5 million a shot for a complete rebuild?. and thats just the parts, the mechanics time is extra. And of the cars I pass today, MOST of them, the ones that are "real" cars and not just glorified mobility scooters that can barely get to motorway speeds on eco-boost 3cylinder sub 1 litre engines, will happily cruise at 135 to 155 mph, some of them a lot more. How many of them are "Survivable" at over 100mph?.. ....and this is why I barely EVER exceed 90mph on a motorway unless I am trying to get the hell away from ijurts playing bumper tag and trying to get off at the next exit to GTF outa there. [note on above, I watch the rear view as much as I watch ahead, because most incidents I have escaped from, happened "Behind" me?..]
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Post by the light works on Sept 2, 2017 8:48:56 GMT
beside the point. junior with leukemia doesn't get to be old enough to drive without a half million dollar injection.
yeah, it ain't free, and rightly so, but is it right to put his family in hock for life to save his life?
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 2, 2017 14:35:35 GMT
beside the point. junior with leukemia doesn't get to be old enough to drive without a half million dollar injection. yeah, it ain't free, and rightly so, but is it right to put his family in hock for life to save his life? If the alternative is to not save his life because you can't afford to develop the treatment in the first place, then yes, it is. Ask any parent who has had to bury a child. Given the choice between a healthy bank balance and a healthy child...to any caring parent, the choice is obvious. If you get any other answer, then there is something wrong with them. Love often means sacrifice. Money is just...money. And ignoring the effect of charities that do provide medical assistance denies the obvious truth that they are part of the way the medical system works. And better yet, you are certain that their payments for treatment are voluntary on all sides. Just because you need something to live doesn't mean it must be free. You need food to live, but you don't assume a farmer should provide it for free. Over the course of your life, I wouldn't be surprised if you spend hundreds of thousands on food.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 2, 2017 15:22:06 GMT
...Just because you need something to live doesn't mean it must be free. You need food to live, but you don't assume a farmer should provide it for free. Over the course of your life, I wouldn't be surprised if you spend hundreds of thousands on food. According to THIS news report, the average American family pays $7203 annually for food and $1803 for clothing. The point of the report is that the same average family unit also pays $10,489 in taxes. More than food and clothing combined. If healthcare was "free", that number would be much, much higher. I agree with TLW in that no family should be forced into financial ruin to save the life of their child, but somebody is still going to pay. There is, and never will be such a thing as "free."
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Post by the light works on Sept 2, 2017 23:39:20 GMT
...Just because you need something to live doesn't mean it must be free. You need food to live, but you don't assume a farmer should provide it for free. Over the course of your life, I wouldn't be surprised if you spend hundreds of thousands on food. According to THIS news report, the average American family pays $7203 annually for food and $1803 for clothing. The point of the report is that the same average family unit also pays $10,489 in taxes. More than food and clothing combined. If healthcare was "free", that number would be much, much higher. I agree with TLW in that no family should be forced into financial ruin to save the life of their child, but somebody is still going to pay. There is, and never will be such a thing as "free." $26,000 a year to keep mrs TLW alive for the 5 years it took to get her qualified (read: to endure the freezeout process) for disability. in those years I was grossing close to a hundred thousand a year - and the worst year, my net income was $1,000.00. my combined income and self employment tax for that year? $3,000.00. I really SHOULD have filed bankruptcy, but it would probably have involved losing my business and my Jeep, and I know I would never be in a position to replace them. fortunately, I had the good judgement to be born to the right parents, but there is a question of whether I will ever be able to repay them. and keep in mind, I had insurance.
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Post by the light works on Sept 3, 2017 0:05:45 GMT
Mod Edit: AW CRAP! I accidentally edited your post instead of quoting it. My apologies for my thumb fingered blunder I caused by hitting the wrong button. I believe this is the text of the original post: beside the point. junior with leukemia doesn't get to be old enough to drive without a half million dollar injection. yeah, it ain't free, and rightly so, but is it right to put his family in hock for life to save his life? If the alternative is to not save his life because you can't afford to develop the treatment in the first place, then yes, it is. Ask any parent who has had to bury a child. Given the choice between a healthy bank balance and a healthy child...to any caring parent, the choice is obvious. If you get any other answer, then there is something wrong with them. Love often means sacrifice. Money is just...money. And ignoring the effect of charities that do provide medical assistance denies the obvious truth that they are part of the way the medical system works. And better yet, you are certain that their payments for treatment are voluntary on all sides. Just because you need something to live doesn't mean it must be free. You need food to live, but you don't assume a farmer should provide it for free. Over the course of your life, I wouldn't be surprised if you spend hundreds of thousands on food. charities are actually one of the most regressive forms of communism there is - although capitalists are finding new ways to get a finger in the pie. on average, less wealthy people give a significantly higher portion of their income to charity than more wealthy people. but that said, it only took 6 hours for us to collect about $10,000.00 in our annual collection for Muscular Dystrophy. but really, what I am seeing here is that I am worried about the financial impact on the parents, while you are worried about the financial impact on the businessman;as well as trying to compare a catastrophic illness to a universal condition. less than 1 in 100 people will ever develop leukemia. not sure the statistic on the particular form the treatment was developed for. but yeah, it's kind of the opposite of winning the lottery under the American healthcare system - but you don't have the option of not buying a ticket.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 3, 2017 0:15:37 GMT
According to THIS news report, the average American family pays $7203 annually for food and $1803 for clothing. The point of the report is that the same average family unit also pays $10,489 in taxes. More than food and clothing combined. If healthcare was "free", that number would be much, much higher. I agree with TLW in that no family should be forced into financial ruin to save the life of their child, but somebody is still going to pay. There is, and never will be such a thing as "free." $26,000 a year to keep mrs TLW alive for the 5 years it took to get her qualified (read: to endure the freezeout process) for disability. in those years I was grossing close to a hundred thousand a year - and the worst year, my net income was $1,000.00. my combined income and self employment tax for that year? $3,000.00. I really SHOULD have filed bankruptcy, but it would probably have involved losing my business and my Jeep, and I know I would never be in a position to replace them. fortunately, I had the good judgement to be born to the right parents, but there is a question of whether I will ever be able to repay them. and keep in mind, I had insurance. I can sympathize with that. The year I was on chemotherapy, my out of pocket medical expenses were close to $40,000. I also had insurance. Or so I thought. It took me almost 5 years to get out of the red.
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