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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 12, 2018 3:17:18 GMT
Maybe after we get done dealing with the problem of people threatening to lob nuclear missiles at us, and cutting off people's heads and blowing up subways and shooting up our schools and living in tents on our city's streets, we can then find time to worry about a little plastic.
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 12, 2018 4:54:15 GMT
Maybe after we get done dealing with the problem of people threatening to lob nuclear missiles at us, and cutting off people's heads and blowing up subways and shooting up our schools and living in tents on our city's streets, we can then find time to worry about a little plastic. Much to my point, these are all problems that could be solved with relative ease if people would stop thinking only of me, my family, my social group, my religion, my political party and my country and instead started thinking about our world and our species. Yes, I sound like a hippie, but I'm not wrong and you know it  |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 12, 2018 9:32:56 GMT
Give us options.
And make those options affordable. To "the man on the street"...
We have a **new** scheme around here, and I have **'red the new because its frankly laughable, that you can now get your milk delivered in Recyclable materials... Glass....
You know, like what they used to do when I was a Kid?.
Problem... the extra 20p a PINT that it costs to get it in Glass delivered to your door, when compared to Supermarket prices...
20 pints a week on average to our house makes that unaffordable, because I know that the Dairy farmer is getting paid less than 20p a pint just for the mile, and how much is the new milk delivery service putting "On top" of their costs to make profit?.
As it stands, the plastic 4pinters, the bottle goes into an active plastic recycling scheme around here, so the plastics are being re-used, so I aint sending them to landfill.
The options we are being given to "Go green" or go green-er, are only affordable to fashion concious people who can afford to pay more for less.
However, my options to buy a certain product, Dog food, in cans, the case I bought last week, 12 cans in plastic wrapping doubled to 24 cans at a bulk price deal by wrapping two 12 can slabs into a 24 can slab all contained in an extra wrap of plastic, thats three plastic wrappings that have gone straight into the bin.
If the shop has simply said if you buy 24 cans we will reduce the bulk charge by [x], I would still have bought 24 cans, and put them in a recyclable bag to get them home, gladly...
But you CANT do that.
There is no option to NOT buy the heavily wrapped in plastic bulk deals.
Unless you want to pay extra for less.
If I knew the dairy farmer was getting enough to make being a dairy farmer affordable, a "living wage" for all that he is doing, I would gladly, and do gladly, pay the extra for the milk.
But I will NOT pay extra just so the dairy that buy the milk can go to recyclable packaging that is glass when I know that they are making a HUGE profit just by being the "Only" green option....
If that changes, and the dairy stop taking the pizza on their glass bottle deliveries, I will make the change, but for now, whilst its fashionable, and therefore "Silly prices", I cant afford that option.
I will however go for the Paper bag option on bulk buys of veg etc, if they stop using plastic bags and instead use paper ones in the supermarket, I will use them.
And I DO use recycled plastic reusable shopping bags. Have done for years, since I worked out they dont cut into you fingers as much.
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Post by the light works on Mar 12, 2018 14:20:52 GMT
I get very annoyed when I forget my reusable shopping bags. the disposable basically double the grocery sprawl. because they are so small and flimsy they only hold two things per bag and you have to double bag if it is heavy.
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Post by c64 on Mar 14, 2018 12:01:59 GMT
First order of business to solving this problem: We need to stop these bleeding heart environmentalists from making this about dolphins getting their noses stuck in six-pack rings and all that. If it doesn't affect our daily lives, the majority of people just don't care! Just like a famous German cabaret artist had asked almost 20 years ago: "Would you really miss dolphins and wales - in the middle of Cologne?" (exited) "We are going to have a nice Mediterranean climate, the green party has firmly promised!" |
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Post by c64 on Mar 14, 2018 12:06:44 GMT
Maybe after we get done dealing with the problem of people threatening to lob nuclear missiles at us, and cutting off people's heads and blowing up subways and shooting up our schools and living in tents on our city's streets, we can then find time to worry about a little plastic. Much to my point, these are all problems that could be solved with relative ease if people would stop thinking only of me, my family, my social group, my religion, my political party and my country and instead started thinking about our world and our species. Yes, I sound like a hippie, but I'm not wrong and you know it That's what the Soviets did! " My Environment? Your Environment? No! Our Environment!"   |
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Post by the light works on Mar 14, 2018 14:09:50 GMT
I understand that in Alaska there is a global warming promotion club of some sort, that is advocating for a warmer climate for alaska.
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 14, 2018 16:42:14 GMT
Much to my point, these are all problems that could be solved with relative ease if people would stop thinking only of me, my family, my social group, my religion, my political party and my country and instead started thinking about our world and our species. Yes, I sound like a hippie, but I'm not wrong and you know it That's what the Soviets did! " My Environment? Your Environment? No! Our Environment!" And as I've been known to state on multiple occasions: Communism might have worked if it hadn't been run by capitalists Capitalism is in our nature as human beings. I just think we could make it work more to our collective advantage by thinking bigger than "me". |
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 14, 2018 16:56:34 GMT
I understand that in Alaska there is a global warming promotion club of some sort, that is advocating for a warmer climate for alaska. And why not? Lighting your house on fire while you're still inside may seem like a shortsighted solution for cold toes, but at least it's a permanent one. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 14, 2018 19:25:18 GMT
I have no doubt that there are just as many people that would benefit from a slightly warmer climate as would suffer from one, but they don't have the voice of those that are brainwashed into thinking otherwise.
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Post by the light works on Mar 15, 2018 2:30:57 GMT
I understand that in Alaska there is a global warming promotion club of some sort, that is advocating for a warmer climate for alaska. And why not? Lighting your house on fire while you're still inside may seem like a shortsighted solution for cold toes, but at least it's a permanent one. "build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day. light a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life." |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 15, 2018 2:54:05 GMT
"build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day. light a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life." Sick, just sick. I love it! |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 15, 2018 7:03:08 GMT
Problem is, too much water.
If you melt the ice caps, you get a LOT of extra water... especially that which is above water level.
Melting ice that is floating on water, or in water, I suspect a melted ice berg only has the same volume of water as it displaces?.
The other problem is the hot zones of earth like deserts will spread, because it can get too hot in some places.
And then there is places like UK and Tornado Alley in USA that on getting a hotter climate will see more extreme weather... hotter climates promote more storms.
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 15, 2018 12:39:45 GMT
I have no doubt that there are just as many people that would benefit from a slightly warmer climate as would suffer from one, but they don't have the voice of those that are brainwashed into thinking otherwise. Right... Because less land to live and produce food on only creates problems for the people who used to be fed and housed where that land once was... |
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 15, 2018 13:00:31 GMT
Melting ice that is floating on water, or in water, I suspect a melted ice berg only has the same volume of water as it displaces? I used to think that too, but it's actually wrong. As water heats up, it expands in volume, meaning sea levels won't just rise by the amount of ice that's melted into the oceans. They'll rise even further as that added water reaches higher and higher temperatures. Not only that, but with all the talk of CO 2 and methane, people tend to forget that the most potent greenhouse gas we have on this planet is water vapor. Heat up the planet and you melt more ice. Melt more ice and you get more water. More water gives you more water vapor. More water vapor traps more heat. Lather, rinse, repeat. It's called a positive feedback loop. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 15, 2018 13:46:56 GMT
I have no doubt that there are just as many people that would benefit from a slightly warmer climate as would suffer from one, but they don't have the voice of those that are brainwashed into thinking otherwise. Right... Because less land to live and produce food on only creates problems for the people who used to be fed and housed where that land once was... We have a whole lot of land in the U.S. that could produce a lot more food if the growing season was just a little longer. And every degree-day increase in temperature reduces heating fuel consumption by millions of barrels of oil. Of course, you won't hear this from Al Gore. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 15, 2018 13:50:23 GMT
Melting ice that is floating on water, or in water, I suspect a melted ice berg only has the same volume of water as it displaces? I used to think that too, but it's actually wrong. As water heats up, it expands in volume, meaning sea levels won't just rise by the amount of ice that's melted into the oceans. They'll rise even further as that added water reaches higher and higher temperatures. Not only that, but with all the talk of CO 2 and methane, people tend to forget that the most potent greenhouse gas we have on this planet is water vapor. Heat up the planet and you melt more ice. Melt more ice and you get more water. More water gives you more water vapor. More water vapor traps more heat. Lather, rinse, repeat. It's called a positive feedback loop. It's the surface area that increases evaporation, not volume. Water under the surface doesn't evaporate. Now you have a valid point that warmer water will increase the evaporation rate. |
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Post by the light works on Mar 15, 2018 13:56:52 GMT
Right... Because less land to live and produce food on only creates problems for the people who used to be fed and housed where that land once was... We have a whole lot of land in the U.S. that could produce a lot more food if the growing season was just a little longer. And every degree-day increase in temperature reduces heating fuel consumption by millions of barrels of oil. Of course, you won't hear this from Al Gore. yeah, and there are no places that will produce less food if the summers get a little hotter and dryer, and air conditioning doesn't consume any energy. |
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Post by the light works on Mar 15, 2018 13:58:13 GMT
I used to think that too, but it's actually wrong. As water heats up, it expands in volume, meaning sea levels won't just rise by the amount of ice that's melted into the oceans. They'll rise even further as that added water reaches higher and higher temperatures. Not only that, but with all the talk of CO 2 and methane, people tend to forget that the most potent greenhouse gas we have on this planet is water vapor. Heat up the planet and you melt more ice. Melt more ice and you get more water. More water gives you more water vapor. More water vapor traps more heat. Lather, rinse, repeat. It's called a positive feedback loop. It's the surface area that increases evaporation, not volume. Water under the surface doesn't evaporate. Now you have a valid point that warmer water will increase the evaporation rate. fortunately, all our oceans are fronted by vertical cliffs, so sea level rise won't result in increased surface area. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 15, 2018 14:02:19 GMT
We have a whole lot of land in the U.S. that could produce a lot more food if the growing season was just a little longer. And every degree-day increase in temperature reduces heating fuel consumption by millions of barrels of oil. Of course, you won't hear this from Al Gore. yeah, and there are no places that will produce less food if the summers get a little hotter and dryer, and air conditioning doesn't consume any energy. According to OziRiS' theory, those areas should get a lot more rain because of all the additional water that is evaporating into the atmosphere. In fact, another advantage is that California could get washed away into the sea. |
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