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Post by the light works on Jan 25, 2018 5:11:48 GMT
Myth 2: ways to defeat police spike strips
Myth 1: guy on an inner tube floats over a fountain and is launched into the air.
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Post by the light works on Jan 25, 2018 6:13:47 GMT
fountain: we learned about hydrodynamics and bernoulli effects, but there's still the drunk guy on an inner tube factor to consider.
spike strips: test #1: A/B foam. test #2, concrete.
Fountain: jets perform differently when they are partially submerged. time to ramp up the pool, the fountain, and the crew.
spike strips: I'm seeing something to do with why you minimize unsprung weight.
fountain: capacity: 3000 GPM. cool-a** fountain.
spike strips bonus test: the "baby driver" maneuver: flick the car into a drift, and use the rear tire to flick the spike strip off the road. not mentioned: if you have the room and time to try to drift it off the road, you have the room to drive around it.
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Post by ironhold on Jan 25, 2018 7:14:35 GMT
"Baby Driver" is still pretty recent a film; they must have started working on it pretty close to when it was in theaters.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 25, 2018 9:50:02 GMT
"Puncture proof tyres"?.
Or drive a vehicle where the tread depth is greater than a spike strip penetration.
Onwards to sunken fountains... I am suspecting this is from something like the water fountains of Vegas that are partially submerged in a lake. Can I just mention that the power of them, floating over them with an inner tube, the first thing that comes to mind is the powerful enema your going to get if one fires?. Like sitting on a fire hose..... You aint goina sit down for a week or so. Therefore I am interested in how this is handled.
I am taking this from the power of the jet-wash thing I use to clean my pond filters and how far up the jet can fire. On that scale, getting to close, say a foot away from the jet, and the skin stings a hell of a lot, so getting a sizeable jet with such power up your back end, its going to sting is a sort of under estimate.?..
I know pond pumps, and I know the power needed to get such a fountain, and I know I dont want to get that close. T%hey are way beyond the 3,000 gallons per hour pumps I use on my pond, of course, but they are in the range of a good fire hose power, and I already know I dont want to get too close to one of them?.
Drift around the spike strip. In the real world... thoughts of the competition between stoopid driver and police. The methods used by the police to deploy spike strips, either you have no option and they give you room enough to stop being a silly bugger and you have time to brake, say a road with no escape and concrete or brick walls or barriers containing you to that road, or they place them in places where they know you will have no time to react. Police aint all that dumb these days. If they deploy a spike strip, there is a more than 99% chance you will hit it. Either that or you damage your vehicle heavily NOT hitting it. Drifting around, if you had the space to do that, do you not think the police would have thought better of putting it in a place with that much room?. Say on the next unsighted bend, or between a row of parked cars.
"At speed" and trying to drift to avoid, you got time to do that?. and at speed, the chance of you not exiting the road and decorating the scenery?. Chances are, if you try that, you will be out of the box in which your car can survive. Getting the back tyres to sweep around in front of the front tyres, thats in a spin, and the number of people that can get that far round and recover to drive a straight line, doing a 360 spin inbetween, is perhaps counted on the fingers of one hand worldwide?. Spike strips are quite long, the chances of not entangling them around your tyres as you try, minimal.
This is not saying I dont want to see someone try... of course I do, that would make entertaining TV.
On the making of puncture proof tyres. Yes we have the ability!... Except, maybe no we dont?. They results are heavy, unweildly, and difficult to fit, especially on say "Sports car" tyres, good for off road and heavy vehicles, but not so much for ANY vehicle on which the phrase used in posts above of "Unsprung weight" has ever been considered. Especially not on low profile tyres.
And the resultant tyres, although it has been promoted that you can at a push, drive at say 50mph on one, its not suggested that you try that at home, because they are like driving on fresh snow, they dont have the same grip, and your never quite sure when they are going to throw you off the road.
Those are the ones with hard disk side-walls that deform on puncture.
The ones with the foam inners, something like the "solid" foam tyres now fitted to many wheelchairs (including my own) change the handling characteristics of the vehicle, they are better than solid rubber because the foam has some give, but not as comfortable as hollow air filled tyres, the difference is changing your vehicle suspension from normal road use to "sports +" settings and getting a rock hard ride, uncomfortable and if you run over a coin you can tell heads or tails, which, although you may think is good for the handling, unless you have had race track experience, isnt good at all. Because the extra weight of the tyres changes how the whole suspension setup works.
Again, I am interested in how this was done, and will have to wait a week to see.
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Post by the light works on Jan 25, 2018 15:14:31 GMT
think a very lot like a fire hose with a smooth bore tip, which is nothing I want to be in the way of.
and yes, the episode is, as always, worth a watch.
the homemade run flats were tested, first on a slow speed course, including speed bumps, and then to see how many high speed laps on the course the driver dared try to do.
and modern spikes now look to be about three inches long.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2018 7:20:03 GMT
think a very lot like a fire hose with a smooth bore tip, which is nothing I want to be in the way of. and yes, the episode is, as always, worth a watch. the homemade run flats were tested, first on a slow speed course, including speed bumps, and then to see how many high speed laps on the course the driver dared try to do. and modern spikes now look to be about three inches long. Three inch long and hollow, so they snap off, and act like a straw, to empty the tyre of air on the hurry up. How big does the wheel got to be?. I have delivered tyres, some for site machinery, some for industrial tractor use, and some of them need fork lift to pick up just one. If you start thinking monster truck but not maybe that big, your in the area where a three inch spike doesnt puncture that?. But who the hell drives one on a road?. Not very often....
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Post by the light works on Jan 26, 2018 14:44:23 GMT
think a very lot like a fire hose with a smooth bore tip, which is nothing I want to be in the way of. and yes, the episode is, as always, worth a watch. the homemade run flats were tested, first on a slow speed course, including speed bumps, and then to see how many high speed laps on the course the driver dared try to do. and modern spikes now look to be about three inches long. Three inch long and hollow, so they snap off, and act like a straw, to empty the tyre of air on the hurry up. How big does the wheel got to be?. I have delivered tyres, some for site machinery, some for industrial tractor use, and some of them need fork lift to pick up just one. If you start thinking monster truck but not maybe that big, your in the area where a three inch spike doesnt puncture that?. But who the hell drives one on a road?. Not very often.... I know the mud tires on my Jeep were less than an inch and a half thick. I think my truck tires are close to two inches thick, brand new. if I had the goal of making spike strip resistant tires, I'd be inclined to make a double layer tire where the inner layer is extremely stretchy, so the spike penetrates the tire, but simply pushes the inner layer inward, without puncturing it.
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Post by ironhold on Jan 26, 2018 16:19:19 GMT
think a very lot like a fire hose with a smooth bore tip, which is nothing I want to be in the way of. and yes, the episode is, as always, worth a watch. the homemade run flats were tested, first on a slow speed course, including speed bumps, and then to see how many high speed laps on the course the driver dared try to do. and modern spikes now look to be about three inches long. Three inch long and hollow, so they snap off, and act like a straw, to empty the tyre of air on the hurry up. How big does the wheel got to be?. I have delivered tyres, some for site machinery, some for industrial tractor use, and some of them need fork lift to pick up just one. If you start thinking monster truck but not maybe that big, your in the area where a three inch spike doesnt puncture that?. But who the hell drives one on a road?. Not very often.... I guess we need to go back and look at various vehicle-related films then...
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Post by mrfatso on Jan 26, 2018 20:35:29 GMT
Would the tread on one of these be deep,enough?
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 27, 2018 7:24:53 GMT
^^^yep, I think that just about covers it MrF....
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 1, 2018 8:43:32 GMT
On watching the episode as it aired last night, UK tv.
Yep pretty much covered most of it. I would have loved to try the concrete tyres to find how uncomfortable they are compared to usual tyres, and see how much less grip they get.
However, I had one "silly" idea whilst watching it, if you were to try, could you defeat the spike strip with a snowplough?.
To the fountain ideas, yep, they went just about as far as necessary to try all they could to get Buster launched. Regarding the power of the jets, if anyone is going to be as stupid as to try floating over a jet as it fires, "On their own head be it"?.. its going to sting a little.. However you play it, a 3,000 GPM pump thats through a nozzle that lifts the water 20ft in the air, its going to sting.
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2018 15:23:49 GMT
On watching the episode as it aired last night, UK tv. Yep pretty much covered most of it. I would have loved to try the concrete tyres to find how uncomfortable they are compared to usual tyres, and see how much less grip they get. However, I had one "silly" idea whilst watching it, if you were to try, could you defeat the spike strip with a snowplough?. To the fountain ideas, yep, they went just about as far as necessary to try all they could to get Buster launched. Regarding the power of the jets, if anyone is going to be as stupid as to try floating over a jet as it fires, "On their own head be it"?.. its going to sting a little.. However you play it, a 3,000 GPM pump thats through a nozzle that lifts the water 20ft in the air, its going to sting. it would seem apparent that if you had time to get the plough doughn then it would push the strip until it either ran off to the side or the plough blade boughnced.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 2, 2018 7:35:17 GMT
On watching the episode as it aired last night, UK tv. Yep pretty much covered most of it. I would have loved to try the concrete tyres to find how uncomfortable they are compared to usual tyres, and see how much less grip they get. However, I had one "silly" idea whilst watching it, if you were to try, could you defeat the spike strip with a snowplough?. To the fountain ideas, yep, they went just about as far as necessary to try all they could to get Buster launched. Regarding the power of the jets, if anyone is going to be as stupid as to try floating over a jet as it fires, "On their own head be it"?.. its going to sting a little.. However you play it, a 3,000 GPM pump thats through a nozzle that lifts the water 20ft in the air, its going to sting. it would seem apparent that if you had time to get the plough doughn then it would push the strip until it either ran off to the side or the plough blade boughnced. Ran this past a friend who is also a show fan, he gave me a suggestion, hows about run a couple of brush heads along the font bumper that ride usually about an inch off the ground to "sweep" the spike strip out the way?. Of course with both, your going to be trailing a spike strip until it detaches. And your going to have to predict you will be spiked. And when the spike strip detached, better hope that not on a corner and you run over it anyway. I know the results will probably be a fail, but if ever they tried a re-do on this?. Note for coppers, if the brush heads make a "plausible", is it possible to quickly Nail-gun the strips to the floor before the car gets there?. Or even run out a large flat plate holding the strips down?. Or tether both ends to something solid?.
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Post by the light works on Feb 2, 2018 12:08:38 GMT
it would seem apparent that if you had time to get the plough doughn then it would push the strip until it either ran off to the side or the plough blade boughnced. Ran this past a friend who is also a show fan, he gave me a suggestion, hows about run a couple of brush heads along the font bumper that ride usually about an inch off the ground to "sweep" the spike strip out the way?. Of course with both, your going to be trailing a spike strip until it detaches. And your going to have to predict you will be spiked. And when the spike strip detached, better hope that not on a corner and you run over it anyway. I know the results will probably be a fail, but if ever they tried a re-do on this?. Note for coppers, if the brush heads make a "plausible", is it possible to quickly Nail-gun the strips to the floor before the car gets there?. Or even run out a large flat plate holding the strips down?. Or tether both ends to something solid?. the deployment that now happens is that the strips either fold or roll up for transport and one cop, preferably in an unmarked car, positions himself in a narrow spot, with poor visibility, and when he gets word, skids the strip across the road as close in front of the car as possible, so the driver has limited time to react. it would be theoretically possible to modify the system so the strip could be lashed at each end, but that would mean throwing it a little bit earlier. it would also make it harder to quickly yank it away again so as to not spike your friends' tires.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 3, 2018 9:54:28 GMT
Ran this past a friend who is also a show fan, he gave me a suggestion, hows about run a couple of brush heads along the font bumper that ride usually about an inch off the ground to "sweep" the spike strip out the way?. Of course with both, your going to be trailing a spike strip until it detaches. And your going to have to predict you will be spiked. And when the spike strip detached, better hope that not on a corner and you run over it anyway. I know the results will probably be a fail, but if ever they tried a re-do on this?. Note for coppers, if the brush heads make a "plausible", is it possible to quickly Nail-gun the strips to the floor before the car gets there?. Or even run out a large flat plate holding the strips down?. Or tether both ends to something solid?. the deployment that now happens is that the strips either fold or roll up for transport and one cop, preferably in an unmarked car, positions himself in a narrow spot, with poor visibility, and when he gets word, skids the strip across the road as close in front of the car as possible, so the driver has limited time to react. it would be theoretically possible to modify the system so the strip could be lashed at each end, but that would mean throwing it a little bit earlier. it would also make it harder to quickly yank it away again so as to not spike your friends' tires. Thought that one through as well, if its a case of two coppers, one at each end, and a safety anchor line in an "X" formation, to anchor it down, as each end is pulled, it will wrap the spikes "into" the tyres if its pulled away, and you now have two coppers that can yank the remains away dependant on what side of the road it ends up on before the chase vehicles pass. The safety lines can be tied off to the front bumper, rear tow bar, but have a shear strength not higher than would start to pull the cop car along. Even if he had forgotten to set parking brake. Could also be of neodymium magnet for easy attachment to "Anything" magnetic?.. and therefore one person deployable?..
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Post by the light works on Feb 3, 2018 16:04:20 GMT
the deployment that now happens is that the strips either fold or roll up for transport and one cop, preferably in an unmarked car, positions himself in a narrow spot, with poor visibility, and when he gets word, skids the strip across the road as close in front of the car as possible, so the driver has limited time to react. it would be theoretically possible to modify the system so the strip could be lashed at each end, but that would mean throwing it a little bit earlier. it would also make it harder to quickly yank it away again so as to not spike your friends' tires. Thought that one through as well, if its a case of two coppers, one at each end, and a safety anchor line in an "X" formation, to anchor it down, as each end is pulled, it will wrap the spikes "into" the tyres if its pulled away, and you now have two coppers that can yank the remains away dependant on what side of the road it ends up on before the chase vehicles pass. The safety lines can be tied off to the front bumper, rear tow bar, but have a shear strength not higher than would start to pull the cop car along. Even if he had forgotten to set parking brake. Could also be of neodymium magnet for easy attachment to "Anything" magnetic?.. and therefore one person deployable?.. here is their training video. are you saying it should have a "carrier" line stretched tight across the road, and then have haul lines to slide it on the carrier line?
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 4, 2018 9:11:06 GMT
No, a line attached to the end furthest away from you that spools out as you throw, that when it, if carried, pulls that leading edge back towards you, around the backside of the vehicle, this striking the rear tyres?. If the end that the officer hold also has a line attached across the road from where they are, thus two lines behind the strip in an "X" shape, if the strip carries on forwards, it will pull both ends into the rear tyres. Bit like tightening a noose trap.
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Post by the light works on Feb 4, 2018 15:20:14 GMT
No, a line attached to the end furthest away from you that spools out as you throw, that when it, if carried, pulls that leading edge back towards you, around the backside of the vehicle, this striking the rear tyres?. If the end that the officer hold also has a line attached across the road from where they are, thus two lines behind the strip in an "X" shape, if the strip carries on forwards, it will pull both ends into the rear tyres. Bit like tightening a noose trap. perhaps you have misunderstood what a spike strip is. a spike strip lets the air out of their tires, so they have to give up driving. you seem to be thinking about a stop net.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 5, 2018 8:31:33 GMT
No, a line attached to the end furthest away from you that spools out as you throw, that when it, if carried, pulls that leading edge back towards you, around the backside of the vehicle, this striking the rear tyres?. If the end that the officer hold also has a line attached across the road from where they are, thus two lines behind the strip in an "X" shape, if the strip carries on forwards, it will pull both ends into the rear tyres. Bit like tightening a noose trap. perhaps you have misunderstood what a spike strip is. a spike strip lets the air out of their tires, so they have to give up driving. you seem to be thinking about a stop net. No, its a combination of the two, when the spike strip hits, the two ends are drawn round to the rear of the tyres, and "let go", so they either entangle or puncture the rear tyres, a bit like a noose tightening, but in no way supposed to be anchored tight as to rip away whatever is holding them?. just enough to draw the two ends together to wrap around the vehicle and possibly get in the way and jam up the mechanics.
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Post by the light works on Feb 5, 2018 15:11:00 GMT
perhaps you have misunderstood what a spike strip is. a spike strip lets the air out of their tires, so they have to give up driving. you seem to be thinking about a stop net. No, its a combination of the two, when the spike strip hits, the two ends are drawn round to the rear of the tyres, and "let go", so they either entangle or puncture the rear tyres, a bit like a noose tightening, but in no way supposed to be anchored tight as to rip away whatever is holding them?. just enough to draw the two ends together to wrap around the vehicle and possibly get in the way and jam up the mechanics. so it's not going to get entangled in the car enough to pull it out from whatever is holding it, just enough to get entangled in the car and stop it. that's a stop net. the stop net just lays on the road, and then instead of the spikes pulling out of the net, like a spike strip, they catch in the tires and suck the net up around them to jam up the mechanics. again: spike strip - let the air out of the tires, so they have to give up. stop net - jam up the mechanics. spike strip - one person deployment, minimal confrontation - they even have a remote controlled model. stop net - at least two people to get it spread out properly - forces a confrontation, then and there.
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