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Post by the light works on Feb 26, 2018 15:37:10 GMT
the main transmission lines will be heavier, partially for the load, and partially for tensile strength. the distribution wire, as I said, varies with intended load, but it is uninsulated and air cooled, so it doesn't need as much metal to carry the amperage. the power line running past my house is about 10mm wire. now underground cables are much thicker, because they need isolation, insulation, shielding, more insulation, grounding, more insulation, and the protective jacket. and now I'm wondering, are you guys using solid wire for your 10mm? here, the biggest wire we will run solid wire for is 10 AWG. the only place 10mm (8AWG) puts up a fight is bending it into an undersized junction box. And cramming it into a junction box is going to be a lot harder than dragging a length off the road. Even if it's obviously not energized, I still would not go near a downed power line. You never know when someone at the power company could reset a breaker or fuse or some idiot homeowner could fire up their back-up generator with it connect to the grid. and don't forget that most substations have breakers that automatically try to turn themselves back on a few times in case the problem fixed itself. (if your lights blink off for a second and come back on, thank an automatic recloser) |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 27, 2018 5:44:13 GMT
the main transmission lines will be heavier, partially for the load, and partially for tensile strength. the distribution wire, as I said, varies with intended load, but it is uninsulated and air cooled, so it doesn't need as much metal to carry the amperage. the power line running past my house is about 10mm wire. now underground cables are much thicker, because they need isolation, insulation, shielding, more insulation, grounding, more insulation, and the protective jacket. and now I'm wondering, are you guys using solid wire for your 10mm? here, the biggest wire we will run solid wire for is 10 AWG. the only place 10mm (8AWG) puts up a fight is bending it into an undersized junction box. And cramming it into a junction box is going to be a lot harder than dragging a length off the road. Even if it's obviously not energized, I still would not go near a downed power line. You never know when someone at the power company could reset a breaker or fuse or some idiot homeowner could fire up their back-up generator with it connect to the grid. It fought back when I terminated it into the cramped confines of a shower, and into the terminals on the double pole isolator, and then again into the MCB fusebox. It wasnt much help when I had to pull it through tight gaps in walls, between floors, and up over into the attic space, where it had to go between rafters, and through tight drilled holes in them to go across the top of the bathroom. No its not solid one strand, its a collection of about a dozen strands, but the reel I got was quite tightly wound?.. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 27, 2018 14:41:24 GMT
And cramming it into a junction box is going to be a lot harder than dragging a length off the road. Even if it's obviously not energized, I still would not go near a downed power line. You never know when someone at the power company could reset a breaker or fuse or some idiot homeowner could fire up their back-up generator with it connect to the grid. It fought back when I terminated it into the cramped confines of a shower, and into the terminals on the double pole isolator, and then again into the MCB fusebox. It wasnt much help when I had to pull it through tight gaps in walls, between floors, and up over into the attic space, where it had to go between rafters, and through tight drilled holes in them to go across the top of the bathroom. No its not solid one strand, its a collection of about a dozen strands, but the reel I got was quite tightly wound?.. our breaker boxes are required to be roomy enough that you don't have to fight the wires.  even when we run more circuits than you do. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 28, 2018 7:54:12 GMT
10 mil into the back of a shower, code says you have to have a moisture loop, so wire out of wall, has to go down, bent double and up, in the space no more than 30 mil back to front....
And then they never give you "Enough" space in the back of them things to separate the two wires and get them in the terminals.
I took to using a pipe bender at one point. Its a small one for "Micro-bore" up to 15mil pipe, quite useful on thick wiring.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 28, 2018 14:10:54 GMT
Wouldn't it be simpler just to put the water heater out in the hallway next to the light switch?
Like I said, it doesn't make sense. You're not allowed to have a light switch anywhere in the room, but you're allowed to mount an electric water heater in the shower.
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Post by the light works on Feb 28, 2018 15:29:12 GMT
Wouldn't it be simpler just to put the water heater out in the hallway next to the light switch? Like I said, it doesn't make sense. You're not allowed to have a light switch anywhere in the room, but you're allowed to mount an electric water heater in the shower. I think the water heater has the spray nozzle on it. but yes, it makes sense to have it anywhere but hanging off the flimsy pipe inside the definitely-gonna-get-splashed zone. |
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Post by ironhold on Feb 28, 2018 21:08:12 GMT
Just checked the Science Channel listings, and we don't have anything Mythbusters tonight or next week, either.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2018 7:13:45 GMT
Are we to gather that once again Science and Disco channels have lost the synchronicity either side of the pond?.
We now have another one this week, see reviews section for details.
This again is a problem, why cant U$A and UK channels be run in the same order?.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2018 7:15:51 GMT
Wouldn't it be simpler just to put the water heater out in the hallway next to the light switch? Like I said, it doesn't make sense. You're not allowed to have a light switch anywhere in the room, but you're allowed to mount an electric water heater in the shower. How would you turn it on/off or adjust temp when inside the room?. you would need a remote control, thats extra expense, and yes you can get systems like that, but expensive. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 1, 2018 9:12:38 GMT
My water heater is two floors down from the shower in the basement and there's no problem controlling the hot water. You do it with what we call a valve. A rather simple device, actually.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2018 12:18:02 GMT
My water heater is two floors down from the shower in the basement and there's no problem controlling the hot water. You do it with what we call a valve. A rather simple device, actually. So you control your shower from a hot water feed from the boiler and a cold water mixer tap. Thats one way of doing it. However, there is another way, a cold water ONLY feed, demand heater, and control the heater to only heat as much water as you are going to need right now, and make it very sensitive, so I can move the control more than half a split of a human hair from 20degC to 21degC and it doesnt go from scalding to freezing in jumps if you dare breathe on the handle. I have a hot water boiler in the house, it does the heating, it also does the hot water to the taps, but the shower unit I am using is less energy hungry than the gas fed boiler, and much more sensitive, and I dont need to run it for more than say 15 seconds to get the water warm, so I am saving on water as well. Also this new one, it is sensitive enough that you can leave it set at a pre-set temp, and it will stick to that, doggedly, with no variation. It senses the heat of the flowing water and uses more or less electricity to keep to the desired temp. My boiler only has CT circuits, the DHW is set to about 80degC, there is no variation on that, so running a pipe from the cylinder to the shower is about 70ft of heated floorboards pipe run. This is a case of horses for course, in the summer time, to have to wake up the boiler because I want a shower, and draining the hot water tank to get that, means the whole boiler must run. Or I can take a "just warm" shower at less than half the price of running the boiler.... Others may get different mileage, I prefer an electric heated shower. Its quicker. and less expensive to run. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 1, 2018 13:54:11 GMT
Most of our residential hot water systems do not share the hot water with a heating boiler. In fact most of our heating systems are hot air and don't have a boiler. We have a separate insulated tank for the hot water system that keeps the water hot all the time. True, it's not as efficient as a single point of use system but in many cases the water tanks are gas fired while the single point of use systems are electrically powered. And around here, gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity for heating. So even though it's not as efficient, you're still saving money.
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2018 15:02:37 GMT
Most of our residential hot water systems do not share the hot water with a heating boiler. In fact most of our heating systems are hot air and don't have a boiler. We have a separate insulated tank for the hot water system that keeps the water hot all the time. True, it's not as efficient as a single point of use system but in many cases the water tanks are gas fired while the single point of use systems are electrically powered. And around here, gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity for heating. So even though it's not as efficient, you're still saving money. my brother's beach house uses a hybrid system for domestic hot water and the floor heat. I think the issue here is the brits haven't developed our domestic hot water thinking, so they still think in terms of manually fired boilers, and two separate taps in their sinks. in my shower, unless my brother in law has been at it, the temperature control never shifts. you turn it on, it comes out the temperature we like, and you turn it off when you are done. if you do want to change the temperature, there is a little dial for that, which you turn by about five degrees to get a noticeable shift in temperature. when you're done, the water heater brings the water back to exactly 140 degrees at its own pace. the new one has a vacation mode, which will shut it down for the number of days you tell it to shut down - which means it will be ready for you to get back home. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 2, 2018 7:00:45 GMT
Most of our residential hot water systems do not share the hot water with a heating boiler. In fact most of our heating systems are hot air and don't have a boiler. We have a separate insulated tank for the hot water system that keeps the water hot all the time. True, it's not as efficient as a single point of use system but in many cases the water tanks are gas fired while the single point of use systems are electrically powered. And around here, gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity for heating. So even though it's not as efficient, you're still saving money. my brother's beach house uses a hybrid system for domestic hot water and the floor heat. I think the issue here is the brits haven't developed our domestic hot water thinking, so they still think in terms of manually fired boilers, and two separate taps in their sinks. in my shower, unless my brother in law has been at it, the temperature control never shifts. you turn it on, it comes out the temperature we like, and you turn it off when you are done. if you do want to change the temperature, there is a little dial for that, which you turn by about five degrees to get a noticeable shift in temperature. when you're done, the water heater brings the water back to exactly 140 degrees at its own pace. the new one has a vacation mode, which will shut it down for the number of days you tell it to shut down - which means it will be ready for you to get back home. Two separate taps for sure, because its tradition, and dont fix it if it aint broke?. But we have had electronically controlled central heating with timers and thermostats since I was a small boy, by the 60's, it was commonplace to be having gas fired central heating installed. By radiator, because hot air systems, we tried that, but they dont work all that well, so radiators are better here in UK. I have been using sensitive shower systems for the last 20 yrs, in that the ones I pick have had the ability to change gradually from ice cold to hot in the near 300degree turn of the temp control. But of late, they have cut that down, and removed the "hotter than a beach holiday with Satan" range from the hot end of the showers ability, because who the hell would take a shower that hot anyway, so you have less range of temp, but they are better at graduated change. There are systems that have a mixer tap on supplied hot/cold water and a pump for those in low pressure water zones, or those who like a LOT of water, but more common, is a water heater the size of a small shoe-box waterproofed and stuck to the wall with heater and controls no more than a couple of inches apart and a short three foot flexible pipe run to the shower head to allow adjustment for height, that cuts down on thermal loss of long pipe runs. Efficient, cheaper to run, and easy to install anywhere there is a cold water supply, and you dont have to wait for the DHW system to make a tank of hot water either. This is why many people choose to go for that idea. Perfect for over-bath showers and places where there aint a lot of room, they can be retrofitted to buildings that dont have the necessary pipe runs for walk in shower systems. Yes other "Exotic" systems are available, including one I saw on some home development for the super rich teevee show, where it looked like the shower was a small waterfall that had been heated. Or was that on the show where they had done a shower for some pool that had been built into a rocky hillside?. it was a while ago... basically it diverted water from a heated hot tub system to be pumped up over a fake waterfall. When you get into that range, I have even seen one idea where a push-button system doses the water with your preferred body detergent. No more cold soap for YOU... yeah.. that nice... except we all use different liquid shower soaps in this house?. And then on to the you-noob vid we all saw where someone with a Hot Tub with water jets and air bubbler threw in a bath-bomb of liquid soap and spent three days getting the foam off their garden?. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 2, 2018 11:50:58 GMT
All showers in the US are limited to 2 1/2 gallons per minute flow rate. This is one of the newer environmental laws. That is, unless you know how to remove all the restrictors.
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Post by the light works on Mar 2, 2018 14:33:50 GMT
All showers in the US are limited to 2 1/2 gallons per minute flow rate. This is one of the newer environmental laws. That is, unless you know how to remove all the restrictors. or install four showers in one cubicle. as to why fix it if it ain't broken, I can wash my hands up to the elbows in by bathroom sink, or I can do a quick rinse-off with about a cup of water, my choice. and how many times do I have to say, we don't wait for the tank, in the US. it waits for us. and since it is well insulated, it doesn't lose enough heat to make a difference - or if we are that worried about it we put in a gas fired flash heater that covers the entire house. I guess it is like the argument between the travel trailer mob and the motorhome mob. the travel trailer guy only has to maintain one engine, while the motorhome guy then tows another vehicle with its own engine behind his moorhome.   |
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 2, 2018 14:37:54 GMT
And here I always thought the small vehicle behind the motorhome was a pusher-helper.
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Post by the light works on Mar 2, 2018 14:58:30 GMT
And here I always thought the small vehicle behind the motorhome was a pusher-helper. I've thought about the idea of pairing a motorhome with an electric car to make a big hybrid vehicle. use the cars batteries to provide boost on upgrades and recharge them to provide dynamic braking on downgrades. - or run the climate control system off the electric motors if the downgrade is longer than the upgrade. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 3, 2018 7:44:49 GMT
And here I always thought the small vehicle behind the motorhome was a pusher-helper. I've thought about the idea of pairing a motorhome with an electric car to make a big hybrid vehicle. use the cars batteries to provide boost on upgrades and recharge them to provide dynamic braking on downgrades. - or run the climate control system off the electric motors if the downgrade is longer than the upgrade. Or just buy a motorhome with one normal driven axle, and one electric driven axle. You may have to check local laws on "live" driven second vehicles behind the first, "Push trucking", on heavy goods vehicles, you would think you could slave a remote control to the front vehicles driver, save on manpower, but I aint sure on the legality of not having a driver in the second vehicle if its not just being towed. |
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2018 8:02:56 GMT
I've thought about the idea of pairing a motorhome with an electric car to make a big hybrid vehicle. use the cars batteries to provide boost on upgrades and recharge them to provide dynamic braking on downgrades. - or run the climate control system off the electric motors if the downgrade is longer than the upgrade. Or just buy a motorhome with one normal driven axle, and one electric driven axle. You may have to check local laws on "live" driven second vehicles behind the first, "Push trucking", on heavy goods vehicles, you would think you could slave a remote control to the front vehicles driver, save on manpower, but I aint sure on the legality of not having a driver in the second vehicle if its not just being towed. it would just be used as a battery pack in towed mode. the motorhome would be the prime mover. |
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