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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 3, 2020 2:09:16 GMT
The series has returned, to the apparent apathy of many who are basically saying its 'more of the same'.
The Overnight viewer figures are 4.88 Million, but will increase from watch again viewers. Even so it looks likely, based on a rough estimate as to the average number of viewers added (minus the BBC's tricks to inflate them), that the episode will end up with 5.5-6 million viewers. It may however buck the trend slightly given the time of year.
This is abysmal, and something that is a bad sign for the season which will show a decline in viewers over its run; This is typical for TV series in general.
If the season is starting with 6 million viewers that means they lost over 4 million since Whittaker's first episode, it would also be the least watched season opener in 'New Who' and could be on course to vie not only for the title of lowest watched season since 2005. But it could end up with some of the lowest season figures since the late 80's; a period in which the BBC's Director General was actively trying to sabotage the series.
Heck, if they shed viewers at the same rate as the prior season they could end up with less than 2 million viewers by the end of the season.
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2020 5:31:55 GMT
or it will have already shed the people who are bothered by the idea of a female doctor still being doctorish and it will hold its viewer numbers.
I still like her doctor better than the grumpy scottish doctor.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 3, 2020 13:16:12 GMT
As I've said before; VERY few people had any real issue with a female Doctor. Those who did would have either never tuned in or certainly not watched past the first episode.
The figures will continue to decline; this is normal for any TV season over its run and certainly for Doctor Who.
As I've noted the pattern for all but one season of DW since 2005* has been for high initial figures followed by a gradual decline, with a slight increase in numbers roughly three episodes in, then halfway through the season and another slight increase towards the end.
Even leaving out that Season 11 showed only one pause in the decline, and a minor increase for its last episode**. The fact is that unless viewer numbers spike by about a million or more and a much lower decline, its set to, at best, to roughly match the overall average from Capaldi's last season (5.8 Million average). Chances are it will do worse, which means season 12's average may well end up being comparable to McCoy's last season from the late 80's. Something of an irony given than a young Chibnal was on TV back in the 80's complaining about the writing of Who at the time. Yet his second season may end up with fewer viewers than those seasons he was complaining about.
*This exception was Tennant's first season, which actually showed an increase in its second episode. This is most likely due to his first episode as the Doctor actually being in the Christmas special rather than at the start of that season. Thus his 'second' episode was actually this third full appearance in the role and matches the trend for the other Doctors until season 11.
**This might actually be an even bigger cause for concern. That episode was actually the 'new years special' which aired almost exactly 12 months to the day before the first episode of season 12. If that bump in viewership was due to people simply passing the time having nothing else to do, then the drop from season 12's first episode may be even steeper than usual.
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2020 15:35:39 GMT
As I've said before; VERY few people had any real issue with a female Doctor. Those who did would have either never tuned in or certainly not watched past the first episode. The figures will continue to decline; this is normal for any TV season over its run and certainly for Doctor Who. As I've noted the pattern for all but one season of DW since 2005* has been for high initial figures followed by a gradual decline, with a slight increase in numbers roughly three episodes in, then halfway through the season and another slight increase towards the end. Even leaving out that Season 11 showed only one pause in the decline, and a minor increase for its last episode**. The fact is that unless viewer numbers spike by about a million or more and a much lower decline, its set to, at best, to roughly match the overall average from Capaldi's last season (5.8 Million average). Chances are it will do worse, which means season 12's average may well end up being comparable to McCoy's last season from the late 80's. Something of an irony given than a young Chibnal was on TV back in the 80's complaining about the writing of Who at the time. Yet his second season may end up with fewer viewers than those seasons he was complaining about. *This exception was Tennant's first season, which actually showed an increase in its second episode. This is most likely due to his first episode as the Doctor actually being in the Christmas special rather than at the start of that season. Thus his 'second' episode was actually this third full appearance in the role and matches the trend for the other Doctors until season 11. **This might actually be an even bigger cause for concern. That episode was actually the 'new years special' which aired almost exactly 12 months to the day before the first episode of season 12. If that bump in viewership was due to people simply passing the time having nothing else to do, then the drop from season 12's first episode may be even steeper than usual. and as I've said before, I find the correlation between shows having a female in the starring role when it has traditionally been a male in the role, and a dramatic increase in complaints about the show (any of a number of shows that have had that change) being no good; to be suspicious. |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 3, 2020 16:31:39 GMT
and as I've said before, I find the correlation between shows having a female in the starring role when it has traditionally been a male in the role, and a dramatic increase in complaints about the show (any of a number of shows that have had that change) being no good; to be suspicious. Just remember that correlation doesn't always mean causation. Take, for example, Marvel Comics and their push for a "diverse" line-up of characters. Yes, you had people complaining about the characters just because. Everyone else who was critical noted that many of the writers and artists working on those characters had thin resumes and that their inexperience was leading to their turning out sub-standard fare very few people wanted to pay cover price for. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2020 16:41:16 GMT
and as I've said before, I find the correlation between shows having a female in the starring role when it has traditionally been a male in the role, and a dramatic increase in complaints about the show (any of a number of shows that have had that change) being no good; to be suspicious. Just remember that correlation doesn't always mean causation. Take, for example, Marvel Comics and their push for a "diverse" line-up of characters. Yes, you had people complaining about the characters just because. Everyone else who was critical noted that many of the writers and artists working on those characters had thin resumes and that their inexperience was leading to their turning out sub-standard fare very few people wanted to pay cover price for. I also remember that there is no such thing as coincidence. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jan 3, 2020 19:10:38 GMT
Here I’ll put my two Penny’s worth in.
Personally I have no problem with many of the female lead films and shows like Captain Marvel and Rey in Star Wars, and yet I simply don’t like this version of Dr a Who.
It’s not in my opinion a problem with Jodie Whitaker, it’s more a problem of the ensemble cast the 2 younger companions are a bit bland, and the show runner Chibnall.
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2020 19:53:49 GMT
Here I’ll put my two Penny’s worth in. Personally I have no problem with many of the female lead films and shows like Captain Marvel and Rey in Star Wars, and yet I simply don’t like this version of Dr a Who. It’s not in my opinion a problem with Jodie Whitaker, it’s more a problem of the ensemble cast the 2 younger companions are a bit bland, and the show runner Chibnall. I agree that the companion trio is less distinctive than some of the better companions in the previous regenerations. and that this ultimately goes back to the showrunner. I am kind of reminded of the people who blamed Hayden Christiansen for Anakin Skywalker being an impulsive emotion driven punk. - ignoring that this is what directly led to him turning to the dark side. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 6, 2020 13:46:11 GMT
The overnight figures for Episode 2 are in and they have fallen again to 4.6 million.
This is, overall, better than the drop between the first and second episodes of some other seasons, some of which lost a million viewers or so. But also isn't a good sign as this means that it at best performing no better than Capaldi's second and third seasons and the low season opening wasn't just a seasonal glitch.
If this trend continues, and there is no reason to think it won't*, This could end up pulling in under 3 million viewers overnight and around 4-5.5 million total. Making it as 'successful' as Capaldi's last season but with fewer episodes.
(*I'm talking about general trends for TV shows and Doctor Who as a whole. Not commenting on what people may think about this specific season)
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 13, 2020 13:50:50 GMT
The unofficial overnight figures for Episode 3 are being reported as 4.19 million, a drop that is a little steeper than the average seen in season 11 and one which shows the series is in serious trouble. If this trend continues the season will end with overnight figures of roughly 1.3 million, or about 2 million for the consolidated figures.
This is going to be interesting because the BBC entered into a deal with HBO Max which requires the BBC to make another two seasons of the show. However if the ratings do fall that low the BBC is going to have a hard time justifying producing a biggish budgeted series no one in the UK is watching. Yet if they put the show on hiatus that would mean breaking their HBO deal and Who basically ending up getting pulled off all streaming platforms in the US and probably being sued.
Either way unless HBO is willing to give the BBC a couple of years to get their house in order chances heads are going to roll at the Beeb.
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2020 15:07:40 GMT
The unofficial overnight figures for Episode 3 are being reported as 4.19 million, a drop that is a little steeper than the average seen in season 11 and one which shows the series is in serious trouble. If this trend continues the season will end with overnight figures of roughly 1.3 million, or about 2 million for the consolidated figures. This is going to be interesting because the BBC entered into a deal with HBO Max which requires the BBC to make another two seasons of the show. However if the ratings do fall that low the BBC is going to have a hard time justifying producing a biggish budgeted series no one in the UK is watching. Yet if they put the show on hiatus that would mean breaking their HBO deal and Who basically ending up getting pulled off all streaming platforms in the US and probably being sued. Either way unless HBO is willing to give the BBC a couple of years to get their house in order chances heads are going to roll at the Beeb. well, that's got to be some consolation after Star Wars wasn't the total bomb you were hoping it would be. I mean, yeah, less people went than to The Last Jedi - but the ones who went liked it. |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 13, 2020 17:26:13 GMT
The unofficial overnight figures for Episode 3 are being reported as 4.19 million, a drop that is a little steeper than the average seen in season 11 and one which shows the series is in serious trouble. If this trend continues the season will end with overnight figures of roughly 1.3 million, or about 2 million for the consolidated figures. This is going to be interesting because the BBC entered into a deal with HBO Max which requires the BBC to make another two seasons of the show. However if the ratings do fall that low the BBC is going to have a hard time justifying producing a biggish budgeted series no one in the UK is watching. Yet if they put the show on hiatus that would mean breaking their HBO deal and Who basically ending up getting pulled off all streaming platforms in the US and probably being sued. Either way unless HBO is willing to give the BBC a couple of years to get their house in order chances heads are going to roll at the Beeb. well, that's got to be some consolation after Star Wars wasn't the total bomb you were hoping it would be. I mean, yeah, less people went than to The Last Jedi - but the ones who went liked it. Last I checked it still hasn't cleared a billion yet, which is being seen as shocking and confusing given how successful all of the other films barring Solo have been. So yeah, there's a matter of scale at hand. As far as the HBO contract goes, I don't know what the laws are in the UK but here in the US breach of contract is frequently seen as a rather serious offense by the courts. The Beeb may have to decide if it'll be cheaper to fight a breach of contract lawsuit than it would be to hastily produce the final required seasons. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jan 14, 2020 13:03:45 GMT
Or they will just have to replace Chibnall and find some else who can write and oversee decent stories.
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Post by the light works on Jan 14, 2020 14:46:00 GMT
Or they will just have to replace Chibnall and find some else who can write and oversee decent stories. to me, if there are complaints, it is more on the story writing than on the acting. of course, I don't have complaints, so take that for what it is. |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 14, 2020 19:31:24 GMT
Idea I had for a hard reboot of Doctor Who:
A conspiracy theorist drags her older brother, a mid-tier sci-fi author, and his editor, a sci-fi fangirl who got a job in the industry, to investigate a hot new theory she's stumbled across.
This time, the conspiracy theory is true... and it leads to them stumbling upon a group of Autons. Just as they're about to get "replaced", The Doctor shows up. Turns out that the trio made for a rather convenient distraction while The Doctor disabled the mechanism at the center of their plot, and saving their lives was the right thing to do in response.
This leads to the trio becoming The Doctor's first companions on Earth. It proves to be quite handy, as The Doctor soon realizes that the author can write up The Doctor's tales verbatim and no one would take it seriously. Sure enough, the author's books recounting The Doctor's stories past and present become hot sellers, with The Doctor taking a cut so that he can operate freely on Earth.
The Doctor uses some of his money to quickly make his way through a diploma mill, earning a doctorate in philosophy. By this time, the author and his editor have grown quite close, at which point a scheme is hatched: the author will buy an estate that has come up for sale in Elstree, and he'll subdivide it with The Doctor.
The author and his soon-to-be wife are indeed looking to settle down, and realize that "a large estate in Elstree" is the perfect spot for The Doctor to set up shop. The Doctor's goal? Build himself an abode that, if needs be, could serve as a temporary embassy for Gallifrey if diplomatic contact is ever made.
Sister, however, still sees The Doctor as an invaluable asset, and becomes his regular traveling companion.
Cue, in time, all of The Doctor's old enemies showing up.
How's that sound?
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Post by the light works on Jan 14, 2020 19:52:28 GMT
Idea I had for a hard reboot of Doctor Who: A conspiracy theorist drags her older brother, a mid-tier sci-fi author, and his editor, a sci-fi fangirl who got a job in the industry, to investigate a hot new theory she's stumbled across. This time, the conspiracy theory is true... and it leads to them stumbling upon a group of Autons. Just as they're about to get "replaced", The Doctor shows up. Turns out that the trio made for a rather convenient distraction while The Doctor disabled the mechanism at the center of their plot, and saving their lives was the right thing to do in response. This leads to the trio becoming The Doctor's first companions on Earth. It proves to be quite handy, as The Doctor soon realizes that the author can write up The Doctor's tales verbatim and no one would take it seriously. Sure enough, the author's books recounting The Doctor's stories past and present become hot sellers, with The Doctor taking a cut so that he can operate freely on Earth. The Doctor uses some of his money to quickly make his way through a diploma mill, earning a doctorate in philosophy. By this time, the author and his editor have grown quite close, at which point a scheme is hatched: the author will buy an estate that has come up for sale in Elstree, and he'll subdivide it with The Doctor. The author and his soon-to-be wife are indeed looking to settle down, and realize that "a large estate in Elstree" is the perfect spot for The Doctor to set up shop. The Doctor's goal? Build himself an abode that, if needs be, could serve as a temporary embassy for Gallifrey if diplomatic contact is ever made. Sister, however, still sees The Doctor as an invaluable asset, and becomes his regular traveling companion. Cue, in time, all of The Doctor's old enemies showing up. How's that sound? sounds like a retcon to me. |
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Post by mrfatso on Jan 14, 2020 22:17:15 GMT
Idea I had for a hard reboot of Doctor Who: A conspiracy theorist drags her older brother, a mid-tier sci-fi author, and his editor, a sci-fi fangirl who got a job in the industry, to investigate a hot new theory she's stumbled across. This time, the conspiracy theory is true... and it leads to them stumbling upon a group of Autons. Just as they're about to get "replaced", The Doctor shows up. Turns out that the trio made for a rather convenient distraction while The Doctor disabled the mechanism at the center of their plot, and saving their lives was the right thing to do in response. This leads to the trio becoming The Doctor's first companions on Earth. It proves to be quite handy, as The Doctor soon realizes that the author can write up The Doctor's tales verbatim and no one would take it seriously. Sure enough, the author's books recounting The Doctor's stories past and present become hot sellers, with The Doctor taking a cut so that he can operate freely on Earth. The Doctor uses some of his money to quickly make his way through a diploma mill, earning a doctorate in philosophy. By this time, the author and his editor have grown quite close, at which point a scheme is hatched: the author will buy an estate that has come up for sale in Elstree, and he'll subdivide it with The Doctor. The author and his soon-to-be wife are indeed looking to settle down, and realize that "a large estate in Elstree" is the perfect spot for The Doctor to set up shop. The Doctor's goal? Build himself an abode that, if needs be, could serve as a temporary embassy for Gallifrey if diplomatic contact is ever made. Sister, however, still sees The Doctor as an invaluable asset, and becomes his regular traveling companion. Cue, in time, all of The Doctor's old enemies showing up. How's that sound? sounds like a retcon to me. Agreed it does not need a reboot. One of the great things about the show since the first regeneration is its ability is to change things within the show as it goes along. And Elstree it is 6 stations down from me on the Thameslink line on the edge of London, about as mysterious to a British viewer as a show in America set in a suburb of New York like Queens. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 14, 2020 22:37:14 GMT
At the beginning of season 10 the Doctor is a professor at a university (for those who don't know). It is noted in the first episode that he has, it is rumored, been there for over 60 years.
Some fans have noted that would mean that the Doctor would have been at that university since the late 1950's at least. And have gone a step further by hypothesizing that he actually sold his 'life story' to the BBC which ended up becoming the TV series Doctor Who....
I have my own ideas, which wouldn't involve 'rebooting' the series (which happens every 3 years or so anyway), but which would involve putting the series on hold for a year or two while making a spin off to fill the gap. Something like that *might* appease HBO and give the BBC time to clean house and find the right person for the job; One of the reasons Chibnall ended up with the job seems to be the BBC being unable to find anyone else to helm the series and unwilling to put the series on hiatus for a year or two.
Regardless of what you may think of this disaster of a series (from an audience-viewer numbers point of view) I think it is fair to say that the BBC would have been well served in the long run by giving the series a short break.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 20, 2020 14:33:49 GMT
The overnight figures for episode 4 are in, as are the consolidated figures for the first two episodes. This is a mixture of good and bad.
The good news is that episode 1 actually over-performed netting some 6.7 million viewers total from an over night figure of 4.88 million. This is a higher percentage of viewers using watch again than has been typical for the series since the iPlayer became available countrywide. However this total is still short of the season openers since 2005, which have averaged around 7.5 million even during Capaldi's run.
Episode two on the other hand is a bit more troubling. The overnight figures were 4.6 million, but the consolidated figures are 5.91 million. This is a drop in the number of people watching later and should this trend continue make it increasingly difficult for the BBC to defend producing the show.
Episode 3's consolidated figures are not in yet, the show getting 4.19 million viewers. If the trend of lowered watch again continues this may net something in the 5.5 million range.
Episode 4's overnights figures are 4.04 million, making it highly likely that the series is going to dive below the 4 million figure next week and may be hovering at or just above the 3 million mark by the end of the season. On the positive side if the trend from season 11 remains we will probably not see any major crashes in viewership, so we probably won't see episodes in the 2.8 million range (the lowest during Capaldi's last season).
Notes; If the overnight figure next week are below 4 million expect a lot of articles on it calling for the show to be cancelled. Treat these with a bucket of salt as these are likely to come from British Tabloids with a vendetta against the BBC and a track record of lying.
I'm not using the '+4 Screen' figures, as these are for those who watched on mobile devices. Since watching on a mobile device requires you use the iPlayer service, which is where the consolidated figures basically come from, this means it counts some viewers twice. The BBC seems to have developed the +4 software for internal use, then realised they could use it to inflate the viewer figures for all of their shows.
The overall trend since season 11's first episode is of an audience that is not turning off in a huff, or gnashing their teeth over a female Doctor. It is of an audience that is simply bored and losing interest. That said there are now complaints that Doctor Who is 'Not Woke enough' coming from the Guardian newspaper - A headline I have to wonder might not do more damage to Who than Chibnall has managed. The 'Woke' crowd will no doubt be happy to have something to scream and complain about. But the saner audience may sigh, decide this really is getting too political, and look elsewhere for their entertainment.
There are reports that the BBC management is running around in a panic. I would not take that, in itself, too seriously but would be astonished if they are not getting concerned. The BBC seems to have instructed Chibnall to change the show, include more of its old history and creatures and have a season wide plot of some kind; or in other words make it more like the past season of 'New Who'. This in a hope it would bring back viewers and stop the decline.
Clearly this is not happening, and with the HBO deal and all that entails this may mean that some of them may be justifiably worried for their own jobs.
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Post by ironhold on Jan 20, 2020 14:56:06 GMT
The BBC seems to have instructed Chibnall to change the show, include more of its old history and creatures and have a season wide plot of some kind; or in other words make it more like the past season of 'New Who'. This in a hope it would bring back viewers and stop the decline. Clearly this is not happening, and with the HBO deal and all that entails this may mean that some of them may be justifiably worried for their own jobs. This is the reason why "Get woke, go broke" is such a meme these days. Unless the average person knows in advance that they're looking at "educational" fare or "social satire", they're going to grab a piece of entertainment because they want to be entertained... and for most people, constant insertions of political matter aren't entertaining. Material that favors their views might be looked at anyway simply because of this, but past a certain point even people who might otherwise agree are going to have their fill and tune out. Entire franchises have been damaged because of this, and entire companies are in danger of going bust because they don't understand this fact. |
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