|
|
Post by OziRiS on May 28, 2013 19:16:38 GMT
When someone uses the phrase: "You've been outfoxed", they usually mean that you've been outsmarted in some way. But why use the fox as an example of a smart animal? Why not "outelephanted" or "outpoodled" or "outdolphined"? Those are all smart animals in their own right. Exactly how smart is a fox anyway?
Weasels are known to be cunning animals. As an example, I've heard the phrase: "This plan is so cunning, you can stick a tail on it and call it a weasel." and others like it, but just how cunning or sneaky are weasels compared to other animals?
Which is smarter or more cunning/sneaky? The fox or the weasel? Are they even smarter than other animals or is it all just myth?
I don't know exactly how these things should be tested, but seeing as the guys have already devised ways to test if ducks' quacks echo, how much memory goldfish have and whether or not you can teach old dogs new tricks, I think they'd be able to come up with something.
Feel free to add to the list if you think of more animal idioms that you've wondered about.
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on May 28, 2013 20:38:07 GMT
For starters, the poodle I inherited from my grandmother isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box.
Among other things, he'll chase raccoons bigger than he is without a second thought, but is terrified silly of kittens.
|
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on May 28, 2013 20:54:59 GMT
Well, there's always the odd one out. In general, the poodle is considered the most intelligent breed of dog and the beagle the least intelligent. That being said, nurturing or the lack thereof can mean a lot and then again, not every specimen of a species or breed is par for the course, so to speak.
In general, humans are considered the most intelligent species on the planet, but there are specimens that have IQ's below that of wet cardboard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 28, 2013 22:13:08 GMT
Foxes are used because of fox hunting, which was a popular pass time for centuries in England.
The hunters, even when they could number 40 men on horseback and at least as many hounds, didn't always catch the fox.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on May 29, 2013 12:57:04 GMT
You had almost eluded to another animal adage: "Sly as a fox" which goes hand-in-hand with being 'outfoxed'.
"Quiet as a (church)mouse": How quiet is a mouse? People sometimes seak of hearing the scampering if mice, which would go to say that they aren't that quiet.
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 29, 2013 13:41:51 GMT
Here's a list of common animal phrases complete with their meaning and origin. www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/animal-phrases.htmlInterestingly, Sly as a fox, outfoxed and quiet as a church mouse isn't on there. There's quit a few that I never heard before but it's a U.K. list so some may be more regional. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 29, 2013 15:41:59 GMT
somehow, I think most people who refer to catlike reflexes aren't speaking about being able to go to sleep at a moment's notice.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on May 29, 2013 16:01:47 GMT
I believe that would be considered 'taking a catnap'
And, now, another feline adage comes to mind: "like catnip to a stray", which is meant to convey that something is quite attractive and/or addictive.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 29, 2013 21:15:22 GMT
*Muses*
I suspect that the fox is given a reputation for guile because it is one of the few predators that causes (or caused) trouble in urban areas. While bears and wolves can and did cause problems they tend not to come into contact with humans who live in or near settlements very often. (And in terms of the English saying it should be noted that both are extinct in the British Isles, and have been for centuries).
What is interesting about this, and makes me suspect that the reputation comes from Foxes pestering urban areas, is that in Asia there is a mythological creature called the Kitsume - roughly translated 'Fox-spirit'. These were/are silver foxes that could take on the form of a beautiful woman to cause mischief*
This is the sort of detail that makes you suspect that the idea of the Kitsume was dreamt up by a man....
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on May 30, 2013 6:43:48 GMT
Hate to say this but it is Kitsune, Kitsume is a common mistake, for the spelling of the Fox Spirit.
Why could Foxes not cause mischief in farming areas, killing chickens, ducks, young lambs etc, these would be real problems for anyone who relied on them as a food source and for income.
I believe the idea of Urban Foxes is quite a modern one, in relative terms, Foxes started moving into British cities in the mid 20th century.
|
|
|
|
Post by freegan on May 30, 2013 11:16:49 GMT
In general, the poodle is considered the most intelligent breed of dog Without trying to derail the discussion, in the UK the Welsh Border Collie is generally regarded as the most intelligent breed of dog. A past friend of mine once had a collie/terrier cross-breed and it was the smartest, most devious dog I've ever encountered. When only a pup, it taught itself that pricking its ears and standing up, staring at the front door got all the humans to look in that direction giving it the opportunity to snaffle food from the coffee table or steal a drink from a cup or glass resting on the floor beside a chair. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 30, 2013 11:52:51 GMT
In general, the poodle is considered the most intelligent breed of dog Without trying to derail the discussion, in the UK the Welsh Border Collie is generally regarded as the most intelligent breed of dog. A past friend of mine once had a collie/terrier cross-breed and it was the smartest, most devious dog I've ever encountered. When only a pup, it taught itself that pricking its ears and standing up, staring at the front door got all the humans to look in that direction giving it the opportunity to snaffle food from the coffee table or steal a drink from a cup or glass resting on the floor beside a chair. many pups have trained their people to just hand them food by that age. |
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on May 30, 2013 12:22:14 GMT
Here's a list of common animal phrases complete with their meaning and origin. www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/animal-phrases.htmlInterestingly, Sly as a fox, outfoxed and quiet as a church mouse isn't on there. There's quit a few that I never heard before but it's a U.K. list so some may be more regional. We in this part of the UK would say "Poor as a Church Mouse" rather than quiet, I think as Churches apart from at Harvest Festival didn`t have food in them unlike a Farm house. I think GTC Greg you are right many phrases there are UK in origin like Fit as a Butchers Dog? They would get plenty to eat unlike a poor families animal surviving on scraps. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 30, 2013 12:28:52 GMT
also, consider, a fox in a farm community would tend not to get at the livestock by brute force methods as bears would. I'm sure many farmers in pre-urban england suffered many occasions of disappearing chickens. - we don't have a large fox population where I grew up, but we did have the issue of chickens disappearing from a henhouse that they couldn't get out of on their own.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on May 30, 2013 13:45:51 GMT
When I was a boy, my Father, elder brother and myself wold collect pheasant eggs so that they could be raised for Sir Harold Cassell shoots. It seemed every year no matter how strong the pens where onevofvthem would be raided by a fox.
I have also remembered something about "Church Mice", a suggestion that it refers back to the days when the poor laws meant that poor people relied on charity raised through the parish in which they where born, indeed it was illegal to leave the parish in which you where born to beg, and administred typically by the local gentry and the vicar. It was said that they where expected to turn up at each church service, sit there quiet and meek, unlike those that could afford either not turn up or act noisily in church,* in order to get the approval of the Vicar. So "Church Mice" could be both poor and quiet.
* There are stories that in some churches in England Vicars ejected people for being too loud, particularly the old choir galleries that where removed in the 18th and 19th centuries. In parts of Yorkshire around Christmas there are meetings in certain Pubs that sing old, unapproved by the Church of England, Carols that date to these times.
|
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on May 30, 2013 17:47:29 GMT
In general, the poodle is considered the most intelligent breed of dog Without trying to derail the discussion, in the UK the Welsh Border Collie is generally regarded as the most intelligent breed of dog. A quick web search seems to imply that boarder collies are indeed considered smartest in the English speaking world, with the poodle coming in second. I've seen that idea reversed on several Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and German lists of smart dogs though (poodle 1st, boarder collie 2nd), so let's just say the poodle and the boarder collie are the two smartes breeds of dog and call it a day  |
|
|
|
Post by freegan on May 30, 2013 19:51:32 GMT
Without trying to derail the discussion, in the UK the Welsh Border Collie is generally regarded as the most intelligent breed of dog. A quick web search seems to imply that boarder collies are indeed considered smartest in the English speaking world, with the poodle coming in second. I've seen that idea reversed on several Danish, Norwegian, Swedish and German lists of smart dogs though (poodle 1st, boarder collie 2nd), so let's just say the poodle and the boarder collie are the two smartes breeds of dog and call it a day I'll accept that but it does lead me to wonder, what with all the cross-breeding with poodles for anti-allergenic dogs. whether a "colloodle" (or should that be a "poodollie"?) would be smarter still. Hmmm ... |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on May 31, 2013 17:29:16 GMT
Border poodle perhaps?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on May 31, 2013 18:00:34 GMT
With all this cross-breeding and hybrid naming of dogs, I wonder...
We know poodle + labrador = labradoodle, but...
Poodle + labradoodle = Poodle doodle?! Or, labradoodoodle?!
In the 'What if...' category...
Pit bull + Shih tzu = Bull shih?! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 31, 2013 18:01:40 GMT
*Mod Hat on*
Stay on topic please.
|
|
