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Post by Lokifan on Sept 1, 2014 15:56:57 GMT
Well, I did hear a rumor that the TV show "Andromeda" was actually a ST series proposal that didn't make it.
Basically, someone wanted to a show after the collapse of the Federation, but it was decided that was too extreme and might damage the franchise.
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Post by the light works on Sept 1, 2014 16:10:06 GMT
Well, I did hear a rumor that the TV show "Andromeda" was actually a ST series proposal that didn't make it. Basically, someone wanted to a show after the collapse of the Federation, but it was decided that was too extreme and might damage the franchise. It was a Gene Roddenberry creation. I've currently got it on the Netflix queue and it finally hit DVD - but its apparently a lot of people wanting it. I stumbled across it in L.A. and saw a few episodes - I've been wanting to see how it begins and ends. |
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 1, 2014 22:28:25 GMT
Well, I did hear a rumor that the TV show "Andromeda" was actually a ST series proposal that didn't make it. Basically, someone wanted to a show after the collapse of the Federation, but it was decided that was too extreme and might damage the franchise. It was a Gene Roddenberry creation. I've currently got it on the Netflix queue and it finally hit DVD - but its apparently a lot of people wanting it. I stumbled across it in L.A. and saw a few episodes - I've been wanting to see how it begins and ends. The Ending not that great to be honest, but it's a matter of personal taste as in all things, the final series is a bit wonky. |
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Post by the light works on Sept 2, 2014 3:38:53 GMT
It was a Gene Roddenberry creation. I've currently got it on the Netflix queue and it finally hit DVD - but its apparently a lot of people wanting it. I stumbled across it in L.A. and saw a few episodes - I've been wanting to see how it begins and ends. The Ending not that great to be honest, but it's a matter of personal taste as in all things, the final series is a bit wonky. I'm not completely surprised - but I do still want to satisfy my curiosity. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 2, 2014 11:17:02 GMT
It isn't a bad series, although as noted the last season wasn't that good.
Apart from the last season, I'd say that for the most part the series managed to feel more 'realistic' and serious than Trek without sacrificing the optimistic bedrock Trek was built on at its heart. The effects are a little dated, but I think that was down to it being a fairly low budgeted show to start with - which is also evident with some of the sets and practical effects. (Which are not bad, but clearly not on the same level as Trek...in fact I don't think they are equal to B5 in many areas).
Not as good as it could have been overall, although you could say that of any TV series to be fair, but in terms of how closely it lived up to that initial promise it certainly beats the stuffing out of Voyager and Enterprise.
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Post by the light works on Sept 2, 2014 14:10:37 GMT
It isn't a bad series, although as noted the last season wasn't that good. Apart from the last season, I'd say that for the most part the series managed to feel more 'realistic' and serious than Trek without sacrificing the optimistic bedrock Trek was built on at its heart. The effects are a little dated, but I think that was down to it being a fairly low budgeted show to start with - which is also evident with some of the sets and practical effects. (Which are not bad, but clearly not on the same level as Trek...in fact I don't think they are equal to B5 in many areas). Not as good as it could have been overall, although you could say that of any TV series to be fair, but in terms of how closely it lived up to that initial promise it certainly beats the stuffing out of Voyager and Enterprise. I'm under the impression that other people put it together from notes they found in Roddenberry's office, which would explain going downhill towards the end - if he never actually made a finish for it. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 7, 2014 10:07:28 GMT
I watched the complete Andromeda... but that was a few years back?....
I didnt think it was that bad, but, yes, the ending was a bet strange.
I cant decide if they left it open for another series or not.....
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 7, 2014 10:30:29 GMT
It wasn't left open for another series, that was the genuine end of the show as it had been cancelled before the episode had been written.
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Post by the light works on Sept 7, 2014 13:57:36 GMT
It wasn't left open for another series, that was the genuine end of the show as it had been cancelled before the episode had been written. That, in itself, means little. there is still the potential for the writers to have left it open in the hope that someone else might pick it up. one of my complaints is that so many shows now appear to plan for the show to go until the cast of characters dies of attrition. there used to be two models of programming - the syndicated show, in which the basic cast could carry on more or less indefinitely, with no overall story arc, and the miniseries, in which a story was told in one or two seasons. Now there seems to be a third categorie, the open ended series, in which there IS a running storyline, but it can't make progress towards a conclusion, because they don't know when it will get cancelled. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 7, 2014 19:54:09 GMT
It is the nature of TV programming that the producers always have to consider each season to be the last, as it is unusual to know if a series has been renewed until after the last episode has been filmed (or at the very least written and be in pre-production). That doesn't mean that the producers don't have longer term plans, just that they have to be careful not to revolve plots or seasons around that larger plan too much.
Arrow, for example, DOES have a five year plan based on the flashback sequences* and they have dropped in hints as far back as the first season as to events that we will get to see in greater detail three years later. For example although the narration given at the start of every episode includes the line '...for five years I was stranded on an island...', and this is the line he's stuck to when asked in episodes. It is actually clear that this is not exactly true, from the fact that he has a tattoo from the Russian Mafia, holds the rank of Captain and is fluent in Russian to mentioning that he got a message from his father telling him about the list he was working through in the first season...Even though his father dies without telling him anything about said list. We now know that he spent at least one of those five years in Hong Kong, and presumably at some point is going to end up in Russia (which might not be this season).
The problem for producers is that networks are VERY wary of giving shows an iron-clad contract for more than a year at a time, because even the most popular shows can suddenly become unpopular more or less overnight. The A-Team went from the most successful show in the world to an expensive albatross in half a season, Hero's ended up in a similar position.
Off the top of my head I can only think of two shows that have been given multi-year contracts. Star Trek Voyager and Mythbusters. MB of course had the better part of a decade of success and popularity behind it before the network was willing to sign that contract, while Voyager was being broadcast on the Paramount Network and proved to be a very costly mistake and a dire warning as to what happens if you sign such a contract and end up with a show that costs more to make that you will get back from advertising. Enterprise got cancelled for that reason, and because they had the sense not to guarantee anything beyond the first year.
Most TV shows rarely get more than one season, few get more than three years and VERY few get more than four or five**. It is the rare show that hits the jackpot and is on air for ten years or so - ER, Smallville, Bones and (again) Mythbusters are a rarity in TV land.
(*Stephen Amell is actually contracted for six years, so clearly Arrow isn't intended to end at the end of the five year arc. Having listened to the writers and producers at Com-Con's I'm guessing that they have a reasonable idea as to where to take the show after season five, should they get that far along.)
(**Battlestar Galactic was meant to have a four year run, but ended up with five due to the writers strike. It is also notable in that while they seem to have planned for a four year long show they never got around to plotting out what was going to happen in that last year. It seems that it the rare production crew who is willing to plan more than a season ahead - and then usually only after the show has been renewed for another year.)
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 7, 2014 21:29:25 GMT
The first time I heard of a "five year plan" was for Babylon 5. The producer claimed to have written out a master plan (complete with trap doors in case something happened to the actors).
He did have a very active internet presence, and appeared to complete his plan even with replacing original characters (including the lead).
The show even survived switching networks, much to my amazement.
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Post by the light works on Sept 7, 2014 21:54:16 GMT
I think my beef lies more in the line that even shows that admit to being fictional imitate reality TV - so nothing ever actually gets resolved.
one comparison I gave Mrs TLW is that it used to be that when you watched a TV episode, something went wrong, and the cast spent the episode fixing it. now, when you watch a TV episode, something goes wrong, and the cast spends the entire episode learning to live with the damage.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 7, 2014 22:15:54 GMT
JMS had more than a five year plan, he worked out the history of the B5 universe in detail a few hundred years either side of when the show was set (2257-2263) and in lesser detail out to a million years. He even had all this written down, and seems rather amused that everyone kept coming into his office to ask what was going to happen next, while sitting six feet from a ring binder that outlined everything that was going to happen.
He had the sense to realize that actors might want to leave the show before the end of the series, so made sure that each (main) character was given a 'backdoor' so they could leave the series without affecting the overall story. This was used four times, first for Micheal O'Hare (Commander Jeffry Sinclair) who had to leave the series after season one due to metal illness - something JMS only revealed after the actor had died, and then only because Micheal O'Hare had asked him to do that. Next was Andrea Thompson (Talia Winters), who apparently left because she felt he wasn't being given enough screen time. Stephen Furst (Vir) was the next to leave due to getting a sit com, although that series wasn't successful and he returned later that year. Last was Claudia Christian (Commander Ivonava)who's reasons for leaving were and still are a little vague, but seem to be along the lines of her not signing the contract in time to take part in season 5.
There were three characters who appeared in the pilot, but who were replaced for the series - all three were in effect replaced by the exact same character if with a different name.
Some plot elements were dropped or changed for one reason or another - A secret organization seen and talked off in the first season was dropped as it shared its name with a computer game. Delen was originally meant to be a man (well, male Membari) who's transformation at the end of season 1 and the beginning of season 2 was meant to include a sex change. That was changed because JMS just wasn't happy at the effects, which is why Delen looks and sounds differently in the pilot than she did in the series. Originally Sinclair was meant to have been transported back in time to become Valen, and his girlfriend Catherine Saki was then going to travel back in time to find him, becoming a Membari herself. The basic plot, Sinclair going back in time to become the legendary Valen, remained when Micheal O'Hare recovered from his illness well enough to return in season 3. But his girlfriends part of the story was dropped - presumably because it would have been rather confusing to have her return at that point, and certainly very hard to write into an already packed script.
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2014 3:21:26 GMT
JMS had more than a five year plan, he worked out the history of the B5 universe in detail a few hundred years either side of when the show was set (2257-2263) and in lesser detail out to a million years. He even had all this written down, and seems rather amused that everyone kept coming into his office to ask what was going to happen next, while sitting six feet from a ring binder that outlined everything that was going to happen. He had the sense to realize that actors might want to leave the show before the end of the series, so made sure that each (main) character was given a 'backdoor' so they could leave the series without affecting the overall story. This was used four times, first for Micheal O'Hare (Commander Jeffry Sinclair) who had to leave the series after season one due to metal illness - something JMS only revealed after the actor had died, and then only because Micheal O'Hare had asked him to do that. Next was Andrea Thompson (Talia Winters), who apparently left because she felt he wasn't being given enough screen time. Stephen Furst (Vir) was the next to leave due to getting a sit com, although that series wasn't successful and he returned later that year. Last was Claudia Christian (Commander Ivonava)who's reasons for leaving were and still are a little vague, but seem to be along the lines of her not signing the contract in time to take part in season 5. There were three characters who appeared in the pilot, but who were replaced for the series - all three were in effect replaced by the exact same character if with a different name. Some plot elements were dropped or changed for one reason or another - A secret organization seen and talked off in the first season was dropped as it shared its name with a computer game. Delen was originally meant to be a man (well, male Membari) who's transformation at the end of season 1 and the beginning of season 2 was meant to include a sex change. That was changed because JMS just wasn't happy at the effects, which is why Delen looks and sounds differently in the pilot than she did in the series. Originally Sinclair was meant to have been transported back in time to become Valen, and his girlfriend Catherine Saki was then going to travel back in time to find him, becoming a Membari herself. The basic plot, Sinclair going back in time to become the legendary Valen, remained when Micheal O'Hare recovered from his illness well enough to return in season 3. But his girlfriends part of the story was dropped - presumably because it would have been rather confusing to have her return at that point, and certainly very hard to write into an already packed script. I watched a bit at the beginning of the show - but never really connected, and then dropped out of TVland for a while. I think about checking it out once in a while, but I always seem to have other things going on. |
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 8, 2014 3:39:46 GMT
One thing to keep in mind with B5 is they almost didn't get to finish the story. I watched it when it first aired. The season 4 finale was planed to be "Intersections in Real Time" (The interrogation of Sheridan by Earth Force) and season 5 would be the battle to retake earth. After that episode aired, it was something like two months before there were any new episodes, which at the time was real odd to me.
Turns out that season 5 got canceled so JMS managed to talk them in to letting them wrap up the story. So season 5 got condensed down into 3 episodes which were made and aired to give closure to as much as possible. So when TNT picked up B5, they basically had to write a new season 5 story because it had already been told, and at the time they were setting up for Crusade.
Question for you. Did anyone watch the original B5 pilot when it first aired back in 1993? One ting I remember from it is during the scene where G'kar and Lita discuss the possibility of getting human telepath DNA in a public bar, They use some sort of "Privacy" field to shield their conversation. The B5 version of Get Smart's Cone of Silence. I distinctively remember having that in the original air version, but it apparently got cut from the DVD release of The Gathering. Does anyone remember that?
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 8, 2014 5:25:21 GMT
I remember the DNA discussion, but not the "Cone of Silence".
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 8, 2014 9:07:57 GMT
JMS noted that about 90% of what was written down made it to the screen, even when they thought that season 4 was going to be the last.
Some elements of the pilot were changed for simplicity, as they would have been to difficult for a TV series to pull off. Others, such as the design of some of the props was changed as the originals just didn't look that good.
@lightworks; The first part of seasons 1 and 5 are the weaker parts of the show. In season 1 they were setting the tone and introducing the characters and setting, which meant that several of the episodes come over as a cheaper and (lets be honest here) badly written copy of Trek. The first part of season 5 effectively ended up doing the exact same thing, which probably would have worked had it not been following on from two action and plot-packed seasons.
If you want to get into the show it might be better to start with the second season. Yes you will miss out on some of the background and references to plot points that go back as far as the pilot. But the second seasons introduction period (mainly introducing the character John Sheridan, who replaced Jeff Sinclair as commander of the station) is shorter and for the most part the writing is somewhat better. Trying to start at season 3 will just leave you confused.
Keep in mind that as much as I love B5, some of the dialog is awful and the acting in some cases is worse - that usually holds for the guest stars rather than the main cast, who usually manage to raise above all but the worst dialog. I mention this because one of the first four episodes of season 2 will introduce you to an example of that, so don't get put off by that but keep watching.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 8, 2014 9:14:00 GMT
Some of the dialogue is so badly written, you wonder why?...
Some of it was to explain later plots.
Some of it is incomprehensible.
Or it was to me, perhaps I heard it wrong.....
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 8, 2014 10:08:01 GMT
No, some of it is just bad dialog.
In fairness this is probably due to the time constraints. JMS wrote a lot of episodes, and it seems often on very short deadlines - Bruce Boxleitner stated that in the four years he was on the show they only filmed past 7pm twice. Something that he (and everyone else who worked on the show)remarked on because no show any of them worked on before or after had such a consistent filming schedule let alone managed to stick with it.
In essence B5 seems to have been filmed more like a soap opera than a sci-fi show, which doesn't give a great deal of time to polish dialog.
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2014 13:51:08 GMT
No, some of it is just bad dialog. In fairness this is probably due to the time constraints. JMS wrote a lot of episodes, and it seems often on very short deadlines - Bruce Boxleitner stated that in the four years he was on the show they only filmed past 7pm twice. Something that he (and everyone else who worked on the show)remarked on because no show any of them worked on before or after had such a consistent filming schedule let alone managed to stick with it. In essence B5 seems to have been filmed more like a soap opera than a sci-fi show, which doesn't give a great deal of time to polish dialog. short lead times, and rushed preparation are pretty standard in the entertainment field - something which led to my comment about how many live theater patrons never realize they are watching paint dry. |
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