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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 0:47:33 GMT
In much of europe, especially the UK, even PSV, PCV, or whatever they call a Bus licence these days, comes in class "D", or Da.... (Not sure of the exacts, mine is s straight Manual... But I passed the bus the first time as on straight manual class 3, at that time, you could get 3a, which is Automatic. Yes there were class 1 buses Automatic transmission... or semi-auto pre-select box. Never saw the point of a Automatic Bus licence.. Or Heavy goods... If you cant drive Manual at that size, you shouldnt be on the road?.... What happens if the only vehicle in the yard is a Manual?... "Can drive today boss, no auto's left"?..... For that reason, Automatic licence holders get paid less. Automatic Trucks... Heavy goods. ..they are getting there. I drove a truck with semi-auto recently... you just dont get to miss a gear, priceless..... But I had it set to SEMI-Auto. I just cant let any vehicle decide for me when to change gear... especially when I am trying to hold a gear, say on a steep climb?.... The UK licence is different for every class of vehicle with Automatic gearbox, even if you have a full manual lower class, if you pass with an Auto box on the higher class you are restricted to automatic on that higher class. You think automatics are bad when going up or down hill? The Danish Army got this brilliant idea of buying some armored all terrain trucks (MAN HX and MAN SX) about 8 years ago, but made the fatal mistake of buying them with auto gears. When we had to learn to drive these bad boys, we needed to learn how to drive them in terrain, of course. Try getting around in a gigantic sand pit in a 30 ton vehicle that repeatedly shifts up and down every time a wheel loses/gains traction! You basically had three options: 1. Go slightly faster than your average disabled hedgehog 2. Go full throttle, full time at the risk of suddenly plowing into something unseen on the other side of the sand dune you're trying to get over 3. Try to work with the gears intead of against/around them (which both of the above options require you to), end up stuck in a pit of loose sand somewhere and get laughed at by all the guys who think it's a fantastic new vehicle - mainly because they haven't driven it off road themselves yet I've driven pretty much anything with four wheels or more that the Danish Army had standing around into that particular training area while I was in the service, and I can honestly say that I'd rather wade through the Sahara on roller skates, wearing a snowsuit than ever having to drive that stupid vehicle through anything rougher than a golf course again! Attachment Deletedyep. that's what happens when you are being winched out of the surfline and you are holding your foot on the throttle without giving enough power to spin the wheels. fortunately, that was fixable by replacing the fluid that boiled over. the ten years of exposure to salt water required a bit more of an overhaul. - which is actually pretty darned good when you consider that there are cars that don't make it 10 years WITHOUT getting dunked a few dozen times a year.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 0:50:35 GMT
minimyth that has been brought up a few times: if you don't drape a jacket over a winch line, it will go through the windshield if it breaks.
this is a variant on the cable snap myth - and it has a little bit of video support, since there are several youtube videos of people damaging cars by breaking tow lines of various kinds - including one that launches it completely over the vehicle. however - the truth is that all of them use improper technique.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 1:28:01 GMT
Why would draping a jacket over it make any difference? You can't tell in advance where it's going to break unless you're already aware of a weak point in the cable and even so, there's not much chance of the jacket flying with the cable, preventing it from destroying something. The jacket would more liekely follow the cable for a little bit (if the cable isn't just tugged out from under it) and then stop and drop because of wind resistance.
Unless of course I'm completely missing the point of the jacket, in which case you can feel free to correct me.
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Post by alabastersandman on Dec 27, 2013 2:47:56 GMT
Went to the Woodcraft store to get a piece of Hard Maple for a project I'm working on. Someone in the car ahead of me, in the passing lane, was driving the same speed as the car in the outside lane. After a few minutes it was obvious he was not concerned about blocking traffic. I flashed my brights on and then off in an attempt to get him/her a clue to lead follow or get out of the way. After a few miles they finally moved ahead far enough to get over. But did they get over? No, they didn't. They stayed in the left lane so I pulled over into the right lane to pass. Next thing I know I got some retard driving over into my lane trying to run me off the road. I nailed the throttle to get up beside them, to keep them from being able to close my lane off any more. Then the idiot actually ran into my car. I headed for an exit and they got behind me to follow me up the exit. Not in the mood for hand to hand combat on the side of the road, I moved over and slammed on my brakes, causing them to go ahead of me. I paced myself so that once the got too far into the exit to turn back off, I bolted back onto the expressway and lost them.
Next thing I know I'm at home and a cop come to my door. Now I have to appear in court for passing this vile person on the right, as well as leaving the scene of an "accident". I tried to explain that I was not in the mood for hand to hand combat on the side of the road, but he wasn't interested. Now I'm the bad guy.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 4:32:40 GMT
Why would draping a jacket over it make any difference? You can't tell in advance where it's going to break unless you're already aware of a weak point in the cable and even so, there's not much chance of the jacket flying with the cable, preventing it from destroying something. The jacket would more liekely follow the cable for a little bit (if the cable isn't just tugged out from under it) and then stop and drop because of wind resistance. Unless of course I'm completely missing the point of the jacket, in which case you can feel free to correct me. the claim is that the weight of the jacket makes the cable fall down into the dirt rather than flying up into the windshield. personally, I am dubious that it makes a difference.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 27, 2013 5:24:37 GMT
In much of europe, especially the UK, even PSV, PCV, or whatever they call a Bus licence these days, comes in class "D", or Da.... (Not sure of the exacts, mine is s straight Manual... But I passed the bus the first time as on straight manual class 3, at that time, you could get 3a, which is Automatic. Yes there were class 1 buses Automatic transmission... or semi-auto pre-select box. Never saw the point of a Automatic Bus licence.. Or Heavy goods... If you cant drive Manual at that size, you shouldnt be on the road?.... What happens if the only vehicle in the yard is a Manual?... "Can drive today boss, no auto's left"?..... For that reason, Automatic licence holders get paid less. Automatic Trucks... Heavy goods. ..they are getting there. I drove a truck with semi-auto recently... you just dont get to miss a gear, priceless..... But I had it set to SEMI-Auto. I just cant let any vehicle decide for me when to change gear... especially when I am trying to hold a gear, say on a steep climb?.... The UK licence is different for every class of vehicle with Automatic gearbox, even if you have a full manual lower class, if you pass with an Auto box on the higher class you are restricted to automatic on that higher class. You think automatics are bad when going up or down hill? The Danish Army got this brilliant idea of buying some armored all terrain trucks (MAN HX and MAN SX) about 8 years ago, but made the fatal mistake of buying them with auto gears. When we had to learn to drive these bad boys, we needed to learn how to drive them in terrain, of course. Try getting around in a gigantic sand pit in a 30 ton vehicle that repeatedly shifts up and down every time a wheel loses/gains traction! You basically had three options: 1. Go slightly faster than your average disabled hedgehog 2. Go full throttle, full time at the risk of suddenly plowing into something unseen on the other side of the sand dune you're trying to get over 3. Try to work with the gears intead of against/around them (which both of the above options require you to), end up stuck in a pit of loose sand somewhere and get laughed at by all the guys who think it's a fantastic new vehicle - mainly because they haven't driven it off road themselves yet I've driven pretty much anything with four wheels or more that the Danish Army had standing around into that particular training area while I was in the service, and I can honestly say that I'd rather wade through the Sahara on roller skates, wearing a snowsuit than ever having to drive that stupid vehicle through anything rougher than a golf course again! I'm not familiar with the vehicle you are referring to, but really, in off road terrain driving, there is little difference between a manual and automatic transmission. The main thing is knowing your vehicle limitations and knowing where is can and cannot take you. The military HUMVEEs are automatic, I drove them through stuff most folks wouldn't and never got one stuck, because I know how to drive off road. I knew before I joined the military and expanded my knowledge with driver training courses when we first got the HUMVEEs in the 80s. Now, I did a lot of vehicle recovery for guys who didn't know how to drive off road as well and got their HUMVEEs stuck. I grew up with manual and automatic transmissions. I can drive either one. I think its funny when you guys talk about how bad an automatic is.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 6:09:35 GMT
Went to the Woodcraft store to get a piece of Hard Maple for a project I'm working on. Someone in the car ahead of me, in the passing lane, was driving the same speed as the car in the outside lane. After a few minutes it was obvious he was not concerned about blocking traffic. I flashed my brights on and then off in an attempt to get him/her a clue to lead follow or get out of the way. After a few miles they finally moved ahead far enough to get over. But did they get over? No, they didn't. They stayed in the left lane so I pulled over into the right lane to pass. Next thing I know I got some retard driving over into my lane trying to run me off the road. I nailed the throttle to get up beside them, to keep them from being able to close my lane off any more. Then the idiot actually ran into my car. I headed for an exit and they got behind me to follow me up the exit. Not in the mood for hand to hand combat on the side of the road, I moved over and slammed on my brakes, causing them to go ahead of me. I paced myself so that once the got too far into the exit to turn back off, I bolted back onto the expressway and lost them. Next thing I know I'm at home and a cop come to my door. Now I have to appear in court for passing this vile person on the right, as well as leaving the scene of an "accident". I tried to explain that I was not in the mood for hand to hand combat on the side of the road, but he wasn't interested. Now I'm the bad guy. you didn't think to call the police and report the incident at your earliest convenience?
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 6:17:06 GMT
In much of europe, especially the UK, even PSV, PCV, or whatever they call a Bus licence these days, comes in class "D", or Da.... (Not sure of the exacts, mine is s straight Manual... But I passed the bus the first time as on straight manual class 3, at that time, you could get 3a, which is Automatic. Yes there were class 1 buses Automatic transmission... or semi-auto pre-select box. Never saw the point of a Automatic Bus licence.. Or Heavy goods... If you cant drive Manual at that size, you shouldnt be on the road?.... What happens if the only vehicle in the yard is a Manual?... "Can drive today boss, no auto's left"?..... For that reason, Automatic licence holders get paid less. Automatic Trucks... Heavy goods. ..they are getting there. I drove a truck with semi-auto recently... you just dont get to miss a gear, priceless..... But I had it set to SEMI-Auto. I just cant let any vehicle decide for me when to change gear... especially when I am trying to hold a gear, say on a steep climb?.... The UK licence is different for every class of vehicle with Automatic gearbox, even if you have a full manual lower class, if you pass with an Auto box on the higher class you are restricted to automatic on that higher class. You think automatics are bad when going up or down hill? The Danish Army got this brilliant idea of buying some armored all terrain trucks (MAN HX and MAN SX) about 8 years ago, but made the fatal mistake of buying them with auto gears. When we had to learn to drive these bad boys, we needed to learn how to drive them in terrain, of course. Try getting around in a gigantic sand pit in a 30 ton vehicle that repeatedly shifts up and down every time a wheel loses/gains traction! You basically had three options: 1. Go slightly faster than your average disabled hedgehog 2. Go full throttle, full time at the risk of suddenly plowing into something unseen on the other side of the sand dune you're trying to get over 3. Try to work with the gears intead of against/around them (which both of the above options require you to), end up stuck in a pit of loose sand somewhere and get laughed at by all the guys who think it's a fantastic new vehicle - mainly because they haven't driven it off road themselves yet I've driven pretty much anything with four wheels or more that the Danish Army had standing around into that particular training area while I was in the service, and I can honestly say that I'd rather wade through the Sahara on roller skates, wearing a snowsuit than ever having to drive that stupid vehicle through anything rougher than a golf course again! and by the way; I'd do option 4: manually pull it down to the lower of the gears it is hunting between, to keep your revs up. that's pretty much SOP with all of our beach rigs, including the HMMWV
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 16:08:48 GMT
Why would draping a jacket over it make any difference? You can't tell in advance where it's going to break unless you're already aware of a weak point in the cable and even so, there's not much chance of the jacket flying with the cable, preventing it from destroying something. The jacket would more liekely follow the cable for a little bit (if the cable isn't just tugged out from under it) and then stop and drop because of wind resistance. Unless of course I'm completely missing the point of the jacket, in which case you can feel free to correct me. the claim is that the weight of the jacket makes the cable fall down into the dirt rather than flying up into the windshield. personally, I am dubious that it makes a difference. Would have to be a pretty heavy jacket...
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 16:19:39 GMT
You think automatics are bad when going up or down hill? The Danish Army got this brilliant idea of buying some armored all terrain trucks (MAN HX and MAN SX) about 8 years ago, but made the fatal mistake of buying them with auto gears. When we had to learn to drive these bad boys, we needed to learn how to drive them in terrain, of course. Try getting around in a gigantic sand pit in a 30 ton vehicle that repeatedly shifts up and down every time a wheel loses/gains traction! You basically had three options: 1. Go slightly faster than your average disabled hedgehog 2. Go full throttle, full time at the risk of suddenly plowing into something unseen on the other side of the sand dune you're trying to get over 3. Try to work with the gears intead of against/around them (which both of the above options require you to), end up stuck in a pit of loose sand somewhere and get laughed at by all the guys who think it's a fantastic new vehicle - mainly because they haven't driven it off road themselves yet I've driven pretty much anything with four wheels or more that the Danish Army had standing around into that particular training area while I was in the service, and I can honestly say that I'd rather wade through the Sahara on roller skates, wearing a snowsuit than ever having to drive that stupid vehicle through anything rougher than a golf course again! I'm not familiar with the vehicle you are referring to, but really, in off road terrain driving, there is little difference between a manual and automatic transmission. The main thing is knowing your vehicle limitations and knowing where is can and cannot take you. The military HUMVEEs are automatic, I drove them through stuff most folks wouldn't and never got one stuck, because I know how to drive off road. I knew before I joined the military and expanded my knowledge with driver training courses when we first got the HUMVEEs in the 80s. Now, I did a lot of vehicle recovery for guys who didn't know how to drive off road as well and got their HUMVEEs stuck. I grew up with manual and automatic transmissions. I can drive either one. I think its funny when you guys talk about how bad an automatic is. This is the vehicle in question: It's all wheel drive and if even one of the wheels loses touch with the ground, the computer that controls the gears reads that as "we're speeding up - better shift up then". Then it realises that the other seven wheels are giving it different input and then it shifts down again and there's no option to manually manipulate the gears in any way to compensate. It's completely aggrevating! And I'm not at all opposed to automatics. I've driven Mercedes GD280s and Land Cruisers with automatics in terrain just fine. The Army also has a MAN 27 with automatic transmission that I've never had any problems with in terrain. It's just this particular truck that I'm not even close to being a fan of, because the automatic transmission system in it is so poorly made.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 16:35:38 GMT
the claim is that the weight of the jacket makes the cable fall down into the dirt rather than flying up into the windshield. personally, I am dubious that it makes a difference. Would have to be a pretty heavy jacket... well, considering there really isn't any sort of lift acting on the cable, I am thinking a single square of toilet paper would be enough weight - but whenever we are doing a winchout because someone backed in a little too far or took too long to launch the skis, we get SOMEBODY telling us to drape a jacket over the cable or it will kill us all when it breaks. considering that our winch cables are tough enough to drag the HMMWV around like a toy; and we always use a double purchase for the winchout... we simply can't apply the tension it would take to break the cable without doing something wrong.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 16:39:36 GMT
I'm not familiar with the vehicle you are referring to, but really, in off road terrain driving, there is little difference between a manual and automatic transmission. The main thing is knowing your vehicle limitations and knowing where is can and cannot take you. The military HUMVEEs are automatic, I drove them through stuff most folks wouldn't and never got one stuck, because I know how to drive off road. I knew before I joined the military and expanded my knowledge with driver training courses when we first got the HUMVEEs in the 80s. Now, I did a lot of vehicle recovery for guys who didn't know how to drive off road as well and got their HUMVEEs stuck. I grew up with manual and automatic transmissions. I can drive either one. I think its funny when you guys talk about how bad an automatic is. This is the vehicle in question: It's all wheel drive and if even one of the wheels loses touch with the ground, the computer that controls the gears reads that as "we're speeding up - better shift up then". Then it realises that the other seven wheels are giving it different input and then it shifts down again and there's no option to manually manipulate the gears in any way to compensate. It's completely aggrevating! And I'm not at all opposed to automatics. I've driven Mercedes GD280s and Land Cruisers with automatics in terrain just fine. The Army also has a MAN 27 with automatic transmission that I've never had any problems with in terrain. It's just this particular truck that I'm not even close to being a fan of, because the automatic transmission system in it is so poorly made. I have never seen a transmission without SOME sort of override. even our Allison push button transmissions have up and down arrows to force the shift. if yours don't have that, then yes, that is VERY poorly made.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 27, 2013 16:48:28 GMT
I'm not familiar with the vehicle you are referring to, but really, in off road terrain driving, there is little difference between a manual and automatic transmission. The main thing is knowing your vehicle limitations and knowing where is can and cannot take you. The military HUMVEEs are automatic, I drove them through stuff most folks wouldn't and never got one stuck, because I know how to drive off road. I knew before I joined the military and expanded my knowledge with driver training courses when we first got the HUMVEEs in the 80s. Now, I did a lot of vehicle recovery for guys who didn't know how to drive off road as well and got their HUMVEEs stuck. I grew up with manual and automatic transmissions. I can drive either one. I think its funny when you guys talk about how bad an automatic is. This is the vehicle in question: It's all wheel drive and if even one of the wheels loses touch with the ground, the computer that controls the gears reads that as "we're speeding up - better shift up then". Then it realises that the other seven wheels are giving it different input and then it shifts down again and there's no option to manually manipulate the gears in any way to compensate. It's completely aggrevating! And I'm not at all opposed to automatics. I've driven Mercedes GD280s and Land Cruisers with automatics in terrain just fine. The Army also has a MAN 27 with automatic transmission that I've never had any problems with in terrain. It's just this particular truck that I'm not even close to being a fan of, because the automatic transmission system in it is so poorly made. Eek, yeah that's NOT the transmissions problem. It IS having the transmission controlled by a computer problem. Computers can NEVER replace a knowledgable driver for off road driving and transmission use.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 23:01:39 GMT
I have never seen a transmission without SOME sort of override. even our Allison push button transmissions have up and down arrows to force the shift. if yours don't have that, then yes, that is VERY poorly made. Well, our resident driving instructor who was always the first to drive anything new since he had to teach the rest of us started my lesson for this particular vehicle with the words: "First thing you need to know is that this is a rediculous vehicle that the brass bought on good faith alone. If you can manage NOT to get this thing stuck out there at least once, I'm putting in for retirement and recommending you as my replacement." Kinda says it all, doesn't it?
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 2:20:07 GMT
I have never seen a transmission without SOME sort of override. even our Allison push button transmissions have up and down arrows to force the shift. if yours don't have that, then yes, that is VERY poorly made. Well, our resident driving instructor who was always the first to drive anything new since he had to teach the rest of us started my lesson for this particular vehicle with the words: "First thing you need to know is that this is a rediculous vehicle that the brass bought on good faith alone. If you can manage NOT to get this thing stuck out there at least once, I'm putting in for retirement and recommending you as my replacement." Kinda says it all, doesn't it? too much weight and not enough tire. we have the same issue with the ski carrier. minimum speed on soft sand is 20 MPH, or it sinks. if the transmission is gear hunting, that makes it so you can't hold speed.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 28, 2013 2:38:36 GMT
Well, our resident driving instructor who was always the first to drive anything new since he had to teach the rest of us started my lesson for this particular vehicle with the words: "First thing you need to know is that this is a rediculous vehicle that the brass bought on good faith alone. If you can manage NOT to get this thing stuck out there at least once, I'm putting in for retirement and recommending you as my replacement." Kinda says it all, doesn't it? too much weight and not enough tire. we have the same issue with the ski carrier. minimum speed on soft sand is 20 MPH, or it sinks. if the transmission is gear hunting, that makes it so you can't hold speed. There's more than enough tire, but you're completely right about that last part. The gear hunting makes it almost impossible to maintain a steady speed. Like I said: You're either flooring it at the risk of hitting something/losing control or you're inching along like an asthmatic snail carrying some heavy shopping. There's no in between.
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 2:55:09 GMT
too much weight and not enough tire. we have the same issue with the ski carrier. minimum speed on soft sand is 20 MPH, or it sinks. if the transmission is gear hunting, that makes it so you can't hold speed. There's more than enough tire, but you're completely right about that last part. The gear hunting makes it almost impossible to maintain a steady speed. Like I said: You're either flooring it at the risk of hitting something/losing control or you're inching along like an asthmatic snail carrying some heavy shopping. There's no in between. if it sinks to the axles without reaching bottom, there's not enough tire.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 28, 2013 9:35:25 GMT
They call that "Hunting" dont they?... And yes, it is damn annoying.
... and then you go on to explain Humvee. That has an auto box that has been designed to be off road.... it "Thinks" in the more up to date way.... Yes driving Auto is all about what you are used to... And I am not used to a damn transmission box or gear box making the decisions for me. Its a control issue. Who is supposed to be in control here?...
I heard that the jacket was supposed to act as a parachute and slow the damn thing down... another variation?...
But then again, I use a cable rather than a rope, and the thing is rated at 10 tons... Before that snapped, I would have snapped the car I was towing.
And yes, its all down to technique... the knowing that you need to "Take the strain", and not just drive until the car being towed is snatched into motion. Its also the knowing that the towing vehicle should ride the brakes pretty much all of the time on any road where gravity may make you catch up with the vehicle in front... This was explained to me in the simple way you do have to tow downhill as well as up, you need to keep the line taught.
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 14:39:10 GMT
They call that "Hunting" dont they?... And yes, it is damn annoying. ... and then you go on to explain Humvee. That has an auto box that has been designed to be off road.... it "Thinks" in the more up to date way.... Yes driving Auto is all about what you are used to... And I am not used to a damn transmission box or gear box making the decisions for me. Its a control issue. Who is supposed to be in control here?... I heard that the jacket was supposed to act as a parachute and slow the damn thing down... another variation?... But then again, I use a cable rather than a rope, and the thing is rated at 10 tons... Before that snapped, I would have snapped the car I was towing. And yes, its all down to technique... the knowing that you need to "Take the strain", and not just drive until the car being towed is snatched into motion. Its also the knowing that the towing vehicle should ride the brakes pretty much all of the time on any road where gravity may make you catch up with the vehicle in front... This was explained to me in the simple way you do have to tow downhill as well as up, you need to keep the line taught. and you draw the cable taut before you apply any severe force; and you particularly do not loop about 20 feet of cable beneath the front bumper of the car being towed, then take a flying start with the car trying to pull it, such that the heavy shackle you have making the loop in the cable comes flying off the ground just as the dynamic force on the cable magnifies the force applied to the weak point tenfold; leaving the shackle accelerated to about 30 MPH and lofting nicely upward like a thrown rock.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 28, 2013 16:04:10 GMT
Well, see, if you KNOW how to drive an automatic, the driver is in control, just as they should be. No different than driving a manual off-road. Just because it is automatic, doesn't mean you let the transmission make all the "decisions". If you know you need to stay in a lower gear, you put the gear selector in that gear and the transmission stays there. Same thing applies to driving on the road or towing a load up a hill. Don't want to be annoyed by the tranny hunting gears? Then shift down a gear. Just because it is automatic, doesn't mean you can't make decisions for yourself. The driver is meant to be in charge. If you don't take charge, that is the drivers fault and not the transmissions fault. You wouldn't hunt gears in a manual transmission would you? Well, you don't have to in an automatic either. It just that simple. Unless European automatics don't have the option to manually select gears..... ------------ Another thing about technique for towing. Always connect to the lowest possible points and place your hooks on from the bottom so if they come unhooked or something breaks while pulling, they fall to the ground, instead if being launched through the air.
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