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Post by OziRiS on Dec 28, 2013 20:33:33 GMT
You wouldn't hunt gears in a manual transmission would you? Well, you don't have to in an automatic either. It just that simple. Unless European automatics don't have the option to manually select gears..... See, I think that's where we're talking past each other. I don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe at least, an automatic that lets you choose a specific gear isn't a real automatic. That would be called a semi-automatic or what is also known as "triptronic" and a lot of other fancy sounding names, depending on which manufacturer made it. While "real" automatics may come with a few options like throttle kickdown or mode selection for different conditions, the option to up- or downshift at will isn't there. Thus SD's complaint over lack of control. Personally, I don't mind automatic transmissions on regular road cars, trucks or buses, but I'd rather drive a manual if I'm going into any sort of rough terrain. Sure, I can make it work with an automatic (I was pleasantly surprised by the Toyota Land Cruiser VX 100), but I much prefer manual in that situation.
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 21:55:29 GMT
See, I think that's where we're talking past each other. I don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe at least, an automatic that lets you choose a specific gear isn't a real automatic. That would be called a semi-automatic or what is also known as "triptronic" and a lot of other fancy sounding names, depending on which manufacturer made it. While "real" automatics may come with a few options like throttle kickdown or mode selection for different conditions, the option to up- or downshift at will isn't there. Thus SD's complaint over lack of control. Personally, I don't mind automatic transmissions on regular road cars, trucks or buses, but I'd rather drive a manual if I'm going into any sort of rough terrain. Sure, I can make it work with an automatic (I was pleasantly surprised by the Toyota Land Cruiser VX 100), but I much prefer manual in that situation. ok. they must be different. here, a "semi auto" or "triptronic" has a SECOND action that allows you to set it to manually trigger upshift and downshift; while a standard automatic transmission has a single controller that can select Park (on most), Reverse, Neutral, Drive, and then up to three lower gears to stop at. the pushbutton allisons in our engines have a set of sidebuttons that can manually set the transmission to stop at a lower gear.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 28, 2013 21:59:15 GMT
ok. they must be different. here, a "semi auto" or "triptronic" has a SECOND action that allows you to set it to manually trigger upshift and downshift; while a standard automatic transmission has a single controller that can select Park (on most), Reverse, Neutral, Drive, and then up to three lower gears to stop at. the pushbutton allisons in our engines have a set of sidebuttons that can manually set the transmission to stop at a lower gear. If European automatics have those functions then the manufacturers do a poor job of spreading the word. I've never seen them in anything I've driven, apart from one truck and I was told that was defined as semi-automatic. "Real" automatics only have Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive as far as I've seen.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 28, 2013 21:59:49 GMT
See, I think that's where we're talking past each other. I don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe at least, an automatic that lets you choose a specific gear isn't a real automatic. That would be called a semi-automatic or what is also known as "triptronic" and a lot of other fancy sounding names, depending on which manufacturer made it. While "real" automatics may come with a few options like throttle kickdown or mode selection for different conditions, the option to up- or downshift at will isn't there. Thus SD's complaint over lack of control. Personally, I don't mind automatic transmissions on regular road cars, trucks or buses, but I'd rather drive a manual if I'm going into any sort of rough terrain. Sure, I can make it work with an automatic (I was pleasantly surprised by the Toyota Land Cruiser VX 100), but I much prefer manual in that situation. So, European automatic transmissions only have Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive on the gear selector? There is no option for 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear? A typical US automatic transmission gear selector is Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, 3, 2, 1. Yes, this is an automatic transmission, not a Tiptronic or similar fancy type transmission name. More on Automatic Transmissions
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 30, 2013 17:24:03 GMT
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 2, 2014 10:18:22 GMT
I KNOW how to drive an automatic, but, and this is the important bit, getting the right gear is like herding cats. ....No Automatic I have ever drove has made the right choice on when and where to change gear. Only available on semi-automatics and Manual.... how do you force a gear hold on an automatic that doesnt have that?.... Obviously not?... if you have the ability to manually select gears, its a MANUAL .... Or its a semi-automatic...? And that is an entirely different gear box, one that gets better and better, one that is increasingly being used in sports cars, as the gear changes are precision micro-second quick. I LIKE semi-auto.... flap-paddle gear changes are GOOD... they change gear faster than I can do on a manual?... and when I say?... whats not to like?... Fully automatic, lets get pedantic about this, and restrict my hate to FULL automatics.... Its not that I dont boot several buckets of whats good for the roses out of the firewall in a semi-auto looking for the clutch when I change gear that I mind... Its the FULLY automatics that do not allow any manual gear holding. This does not include those with the R-N-1-2-3-A type arranged auto box such as old Jags and Rovers used to have, I am concerned about the R-P-F reverse park forward STUPID full automatics. Park?... just what is that?... all it does is lock up the transmission?... WHY?... whats wrong with a hand-brake like all the other cars have?...(E-Brake for Yanks) And what is with all these new cars with the stupidity of a push-button electronic hand brake that doesnt quite automatically cancel when you start rolling forwards?... Pretty forkliftingly stupid when you want to REVERSE up a hill?... where is the handbrake then?... Electronic throttle control, "Fly by wire", and yes, I am looking at YOU Mercedes Truck division here... This limits your Revs when you start off until the clutch is fully engaged. Try doing that at the max weight limit facing up a steep hill... Automatic... that word synonamises everything wrong in autonomy.
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2014 15:06:01 GMT
I KNOW how to drive an automatic, but, and this is the important bit, getting the right gear is like herding cats. ....No Automatic I have ever drove has made the right choice on when and where to change gear. Only available on semi-automatics and Manual.... how do you force a gear hold on an automatic that doesnt have that?.... Obviously not?... if you have the ability to manually select gears, its a MANUAL .... Or its a semi-automatic...? And that is an entirely different gear box, one that gets better and better, one that is increasingly being used in sports cars, as the gear changes are precision micro-second quick. I LIKE semi-auto.... flap-paddle gear changes are GOOD... they change gear faster than I can do on a manual?... and when I say?... whats not to like?... Fully automatic, lets get pedantic about this, and restrict my hate to FULL automatics.... Its not that I dont boot several buckets of whats good for the roses out of the firewall in a semi-auto looking for the clutch when I change gear that I mind... Its the FULLY automatics that do not allow any manual gear holding. This does not include those with the R-N-1-2-3-A type arranged auto box such as old Jags and Rovers used to have, I am concerned about the R-P-F reverse park forward STUPID full automatics. Park?... just what is that?... all it does is lock up the transmission?... WHY?... whats wrong with a hand-brake like all the other cars have?...(E-Brake for Yanks) And what is with all these new cars with the stupidity of a push-button electronic hand brake that doesnt quite automatically cancel when you start rolling forwards?... Pretty forkliftingly stupid when you want to REVERSE up a hill?... where is the handbrake then?... Electronic throttle control, "Fly by wire", and yes, I am looking at YOU Mercedes Truck division here... This limits your Revs when you start off until the clutch is fully engaged. Try doing that at the max weight limit facing up a steep hill... Automatic... that word synonamises everything wrong in autonomy. I would estimate about 70% of motor vehicles in the US, not counting those with air brakes, do not have a park brake capable of holding the vehicle on any noticeable grade; through a combination of poor engineering and operator error. engine 4 was one of those with poor engineering. the park brake was a drum brake about the size I had on the back of my old nissan, in the center of the driveshaft. it was adequate to keep the chassis from wandering off while they were installing the body, on the assembly line, and not much more. I finally managed to complain about it enough that the installed a microlock system (a one way valve in the brake lines - you would engage the valve, and then pump the brake pedal once to set the service brakes, and the valve would hold pressure) so yeah, leave out the park pawl? didn't you say you were the "belt and braces" sort? when you park your car, do you leave the gearbox in neutral and rely on the park brake to hold it? but we really don't have what you call an "automatic" here in the states - they are all what you would consider semi-autos. and fly by wire throttle, and not being able to rev up the engine starting up a hill - we had a mulch truck driver who drove a standard shift with only one leg - and as I recall, he didn't have hand controls in the truck. must have been a heck of a dance, he did; and he couldn't have done it in a cabover, because the steering column would be in the way.
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Post by User Unavailable on Jan 2, 2014 15:21:39 GMT
I KNOW how to drive an automatic, but, and this is the important bit, getting the right gear is like herding cats. ....No Automatic I have ever drove has made the right choice on when and where to change gear. Only available on semi-automatics and Manual.... how do you force a gear hold on an automatic that doesnt have that?.... Obviously not?... if you have the ability to manually select gears, its a MANUAL .... Or its a semi-automatic...? And that is an entirely different gear box, one that gets better and better, one that is increasingly being used in sports cars, as the gear changes are precision micro-second quick. I LIKE semi-auto.... flap-paddle gear changes are GOOD... they change gear faster than I can do on a manual?... and when I say?... whats not to like?... Fully automatic, lets get pedantic about this, and restrict my hate to FULL automatics.... Its not that I dont boot several buckets of whats good for the roses out of the firewall in a semi-auto looking for the clutch when I change gear that I mind... Its the FULLY automatics that do not allow any manual gear holding. This does not include those with the R-N-1-2-3-A type arranged auto box such as old Jags and Rovers used to have, I am concerned about the R-P-F reverse park forward STUPID full automatics. Park?... just what is that?... all it does is lock up the transmission?... WHY?... whats wrong with a hand-brake like all the other cars have?...(E-Brake for Yanks) And what is with all these new cars with the stupidity of a push-button electronic hand brake that doesnt quite automatically cancel when you start rolling forwards?... Pretty forkliftingly stupid when you want to REVERSE up a hill?... where is the handbrake then?... Electronic throttle control, "Fly by wire", and yes, I am looking at YOU Mercedes Truck division here... This limits your Revs when you start off until the clutch is fully engaged. Try doing that at the max weight limit facing up a steep hill... Automatic... that word synonamises everything wrong in autonomy. Yes, our automatic transmissions do allow us to select lower gears manually if need be. No, that is not the full time intended use*. No, our automatics are not semi-automatics. Semi-automatics are a different animal altogether in function and shifting. Semi-automatic transmissions require the driver to manually shift gears. The driver just doesn't have to depress a clutch pedal to do so. I agree the shift option of only having park, forward and reverse is ridiculous and I have to wonder why that came about. I've never experienced driving a car equipped that way myself. I didn't know they existed. Park? In most day to day Parking, the park function is just fine and works great. I've NEVER heard of a case of a parking pawl failure around here, or of one wearing out and needing replacing. Though where folks typically park around here, tends to be fairly flat. Most folks will use the Parking Brake when parked on a grade as an extra precaution. * 99% of the time! you shift into Drive and go about your driving business, never selecting a lower gear. If your are in Drive and manually select 3rd gear, then the transmission will still automatically shift between 3,2,1 as needed.
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2014 16:04:40 GMT
actually, now that I think of it, I have. it was an old burned out Subaru, and I kept forgetting that it only had enough horsepower left to hold 5th gear, if it was on a downgrade in a tailwind,
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Post by wvengineer on Jan 2, 2014 16:13:14 GMT
In the US, most automatic tranies have park, neutral, reverse, drive, and additional options to limit the highest gear that it will shift into (P,N,R,D,3,2,1).
I have seen a few cars that don't have the limiter setup like above, but just have a "low" function that automatically selects a lower gear for you. (P,N,R,D,L) My Fusion has this and that is one of the few things I don't like about the car.
Many newer cars these days have a Sport Shift function that allows you to manually select the gear without a clutch. Basically it lets you drive it in either automatic or semi-automatic mode. (P,N,R,D,M) I really like those. I learned on a stick shift and this gives the same control over shifting as a stick, but without having to mess with a clutch petal. My Subaru had this and was great until the engine does a very premature death.
I recently purchased a Ford F-550 where I work and the only option it had for a tranie was a 5 speed automatic with the top gear limiting. I was surprised that Ford is they only company right now that makes a chassis cab truck with a 10,000 lbs cargo capacity and a gasoline engine. Everyone else only has diesels for trucks that big. I needed a gas engine because the truck will be carrying stuff that goes boom and gas has a LOT less requirements that I have to design the truck to.
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2014 16:21:36 GMT
In the US, most automatic tranies have park, neutral, reverse, drive, and additional options to limit the highest gear that it will shift into (P,N,R,D,3,2,1). I have seen a few cars that don't have the limiter setup like above, but just have a "low" function that automatically selects a lower gear for you. (P,N,R,D,L) My Fusion has this and that is one of the few things I don't like about the car. Many newer cars these days have a Sport Shift function that allows you to manually select the gear without a clutch. Basically it lets you drive it in either automatic or semi-automatic mode. (P,N,R,D,M) I really like those. I learned on a stick shift and this gives the same control over shifting as a stick, but without having to mess with a clutch petal. My Subaru had this and was great until the engine does a very premature death. I recently purchased a Ford F-550 where I work and the only option it had for a tranie was a 5 speed automatic with the top gear limiting. I was surprised that Ford is they only company right now that makes a chassis cab truck with a 10,000 lbs cargo capacity and a gasoline engine. Everyone else only has diesels for trucks that big. I needed a gas engine because the truck will be carrying stuff that goes boom and gas has a LOT less requirements that I have to design the truck to. I am surprised that a gaspot has less special requirements for a truck that will be carrying explosives than a diesel does. I would think that if it made a difference, the gaspot would be more strict due to the more volatile fuel. what IS the difference?
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Post by wvengineer on Jan 2, 2014 16:56:44 GMT
When I started this, I was actually quite surprised to find that Chevy/GMC stopped making any trucks bigger than their one on truck. They don't make anything bigger than a Silverado 3500 or the GMC equivalent.
The biggest concern was the regeneration system for the diesel pollution control. Those things get HOT!!!. Operating temperature is over 600C or 1100F. You can imagine people getting really nervous about something that hot under the cargo box with several thousand pounds of volatile materials in it. DoD rules for transporting energetics say that you can use diesel with regeneration only if there is a way to manually shut off the regeneration cycle.
The next problem is that you need a fairly long trip at speed for the truck to complete a regen cycle. Ram/Dodge said that you need at least 15 minutes at 55 mph or higher to complete the cycle. Once we start using this truck, it is considered contaminated and getting it cleaned and cleared to leave our site and drive on public roads is a very expensive process. We don't have room at our facility to get up to that speed.
There are other requirements like provision for positive engine shutoff. I couldn't find a automaker that offered one as a factory option. Only thing I could find was after market and there are questions about how that would effect warranty.
DoD requirements for gas engines on the other hand are a lot simpler. The biggest one is a spark arrestor on the exhaust. That is easy work for any truck or exhaust shop. Plus have some fire extinguishers on board.
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Post by Lokifan on Jan 2, 2014 17:28:01 GMT
I was surprised to find my Ford Escape automatic had only P-R-D-L. I was concerned because I didn't see a 1st gear and it seemed a bit too fast when I tried engine braking on "L" down the long hill to Santa Cruz. Then I found the little button on the side of the shifter--Downhill Assist. Through some sort of magic, it seems to decide when and how to shift into lower gears while going downhill. As the end result is that I'm not burning out my breaks on a long descent, I'm cautiously optimistic about the feature, but I'm still a bit leery of it. I also think it might be tied to the cruise control system, but that just might be my imagination... I did give both systems a good test last week. I had to drive back from Phoenix, and made the trip in one day. The Downhill Assist came in handy getting through the mountains, and the cruise control worked well on the laser straight I-5. The trip was about 800 miles, or almost 2 times the length of England. I think the main reason I rely on these systems instead of manuals, it's simply easier to drive around hilly areas with an automatic (in general). I don't like clutches. After all, I live in the area that brought us this screen classic: By the way, on the original topic, what makes some fool think that driving with only parking lights is a good idea at night? Or are both his headlights out and he's too dumb to replace them? I could see someone being momentarily confused when coming out of a well lit parking lot and forgetting to turn on their headlights for a bit, but who thinks "Well, I guess parking lights are good enough"?
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Post by Lokifan on Jan 2, 2014 17:32:53 GMT
wvengineer, I have a question that you might be able to answer.
I used to work with someone who drove a dynamite truck for her family hardware store in the Colorado mountains. She had some great stories (including the classic "I lost my brakes on top of a mountain road") but one thing she claimed was that it was illegal for her to break down withing a certain range of a school. In reality, that made her plan her trips carefully through a town to make sure it came nowhere near a school (and maybe that was the point).
Have you ever heard of that?
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Post by wvengineer on Jan 2, 2014 19:11:01 GMT
Loki, I will have to ask some of the Safety Engineering guys I work with when I go back to work on Monday. I'm not familiar with DoT rules for energetics travelling on public roads. That isn't something I have work on. Just moving stuff around one it is onsite.
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 2, 2014 19:43:15 GMT
By the way, on the original topic, what makes some fool think that driving with only parking lights is a good idea at night? Or are both his headlights out and he's too dumb to replace them? I could see someone being momentarily confused when coming out of a well lit parking lot and forgetting to turn on their headlights for a bit, but who thinks "Well, I guess parking lights are good enough"? You're just getting that problem now? We've had it for about 2-3 years. Our laws state that you have to have your driving lights on at all times when the vehicle is moving. Parking lights are just that - for parking ONLY! Then, about three years ago, some idiot started spreading the rumor that the law had been changed and it was now legal to drive around with your parking lights on during the day. Didn't take long for that to spread like a brush fire and pretty soon half the traffic on the roads was either parking lights or no lights at all. Que forgetful idiots and now you have about 25% of the drivers doing that in the pitch dark too, because they forget they only have their parking lights on. Soon as they hit a freeway or poorly lit road most of them usually wise up, but there have been accidents because people didn't. To make matters even worse, it's still required by law to have your head lights on during the day, but your tail lights can be turned off, so they only light up when you touch the breaks. Car manufacturers have now taken to making it a standard in newer cars that the tail lights don't light up automatically when you start the car, as was the requirement before. The law states that you have to turn the tail lights on "when needed", but most of the idiots who sell these cars forget to tell the consumers of this function (meaning that they're not aware that their tail lights are turned off) and most of the people who are told about it only consider "when needed" to mean "at night". Fog, heavy rain or snow apparently doesn't count as situations that need them to turn on their tail lights and as a consequence, we've had more pile-ups on the freeways in the past year than we've had in the entire decade before this law was introduced.
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Post by User Unavailable on Jan 2, 2014 21:33:40 GMT
By the way, on the original topic, what makes some fool think that driving with only parking lights is a good idea at night? Or are both his headlights out and he's too dumb to replace them? I could see someone being momentarily confused when coming out of a well lit parking lot and forgetting to turn on their headlights for a bit, but who thinks "Well, I guess parking lights are good enough"? You're just getting that problem now? We've had it for about 2-3 years. Our laws state that you have to have your driving lights on at all times when the vehicle is moving. Parking lights are just that - for parking ONLY! Then, about three years ago, some idiot started spreading the rumor that the law had been changed and it was now legal to drive around with your parking lights on during the day. Didn't take long for that to spread like a brush fire and pretty soon half the traffic on the roads was either parking lights or no lights at all. Que forgetful idiots and now you have about 25% of the drivers doing that in the pitch dark too, because they forget they only have their parking lights on. Soon as they hit a freeway or poorly lit road most of them usually wise up, but there have been accidents because people didn't. To make matters even worse, it's still required by law to have your head lights on during the day, but your tail lights can be turned off, so they only light up when you touch the breaks. Car manufacturers have now taken to making it a standard in newer cars that the tail lights don't light up automatically when you start the car, as was the requirement before. The law states that you have to turn the tail lights on "when needed", but most of the idiots who sell these cars forget to tell the consumers of this function (meaning that they're not aware that their tail lights are turned off) and most of the people who are told about it only consider "when needed" to mean "at night". Fog, heavy rain or snow apparently doesn't count as situations that need them to turn on their tail lights and as a consequence, we've had more pile-ups on the freeways in the past year than we've had in the entire decade before this law was introduced. We have many cars with the Daytime Running Lights where the headlights come on automatically without the tail lights and other running lights being on. Every one that I've drove, the DRLs run at reduced voltage and are not very bright, thus not suitable for use after dark, plus once it gets dark, if all you have on is the DRLs, you can't see your instrument panel, as the instrument panel lights come on when the parking lights come on, in every civilian vehicle I've driven.
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 2, 2014 21:44:43 GMT
You're just getting that problem now? We've had it for about 2-3 years. Our laws state that you have to have your driving lights on at all times when the vehicle is moving. Parking lights are just that - for parking ONLY! Then, about three years ago, some idiot started spreading the rumor that the law had been changed and it was now legal to drive around with your parking lights on during the day. Didn't take long for that to spread like a brush fire and pretty soon half the traffic on the roads was either parking lights or no lights at all. Que forgetful idiots and now you have about 25% of the drivers doing that in the pitch dark too, because they forget they only have their parking lights on. Soon as they hit a freeway or poorly lit road most of them usually wise up, but there have been accidents because people didn't. To make matters even worse, it's still required by law to have your head lights on during the day, but your tail lights can be turned off, so they only light up when you touch the breaks. Car manufacturers have now taken to making it a standard in newer cars that the tail lights don't light up automatically when you start the car, as was the requirement before. The law states that you have to turn the tail lights on "when needed", but most of the idiots who sell these cars forget to tell the consumers of this function (meaning that they're not aware that their tail lights are turned off) and most of the people who are told about it only consider "when needed" to mean "at night". Fog, heavy rain or snow apparently doesn't count as situations that need them to turn on their tail lights and as a consequence, we've had more pile-ups on the freeways in the past year than we've had in the entire decade before this law was introduced. We have many cars with the Daytime Running Lights where the headlights come on automatically without the tail lights and other running lights being on. Every one that I've drove, the DRLs run at reduced voltage and are not very bright, thus not suitable for use after dark, plus once it gets dark, if all you have on is the DRLs, you can't see your instrument panel, as the instrument panel lights come on when the parking lights come on, in every civilian vehicle I've driven. For the European market, most DRLs as you call them are just as bright as normal night time lighting. You may notice a small difference, but it's not enough to cause any danger if you forget to switch over. My Skoda Fabia from 2005 has almost no difference in brightness between DRL and night time lighting. The only reason I ever switch over is if it's so dark I need to put my high beams on. If the lights are set to DRL, I can only flash the high beams, not have them on permanently.
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2014 1:37:04 GMT
When I started this, I was actually quite surprised to find that Chevy/GMC stopped making any trucks bigger than their one on truck. They don't make anything bigger than a Silverado 3500 or the GMC equivalent. The biggest concern was the regeneration system for the diesel pollution control. Those things get HOT!!!. Operating temperature is over 600C or 1100F. You can imagine people getting really nervous about something that hot under the cargo box with several thousand pounds of volatile materials in it. DoD rules for transporting energetics say that you can use diesel with regeneration only if there is a way to manually shut off the regeneration cycle. The next problem is that you need a fairly long trip at speed for the truck to complete a regen cycle. Ram/Dodge said that you need at least 15 minutes at 55 mph or higher to complete the cycle. Once we start using this truck, it is considered contaminated and getting it cleaned and cleared to leave our site and drive on public roads is a very expensive process. We don't have room at our facility to get up to that speed. There are other requirements like provision for positive engine shutoff. I couldn't find a automaker that offered one as a factory option. Only thing I could find was after market and there are questions about how that would effect warranty. DoD requirements for gas engines on the other hand are a lot simpler. The biggest one is a spark arrestor on the exhaust. That is easy work for any truck or exhaust shop. Plus have some fire extinguishers on board. ah, I was forgetting about the afterburner. our newest fire engines have those, and the EPA very kindly made an allowance that after we engage the pump we can throw a manual switch that locks it out. of course, if we forget, and the ECU decides it is time to purge the filters, our firefighters will suddenly be working at 200PSI when it revs up the engine for the burn cycle.
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Post by the light works on Jan 3, 2014 1:38:30 GMT
We have many cars with the Daytime Running Lights where the headlights come on automatically without the tail lights and other running lights being on. Every one that I've drove, the DRLs run at reduced voltage and are not very bright, thus not suitable for use after dark, plus once it gets dark, if all you have on is the DRLs, you can't see your instrument panel, as the instrument panel lights come on when the parking lights come on, in every civilian vehicle I've driven. For the European market, most DRLs as you call them are just as bright as normal night time lighting. You may notice a small difference, but it's not enough to cause any danger if you forget to switch over. My Skoda Fabia from 2005 has almost no difference in brightness between DRL and night time lighting. The only reason I ever switch over is if it's so dark I need to put my high beams on. If the lights are set to DRL, I can only flash the high beams, not have them on permanently. my lights on my truck and my wife's are - wait for it - automatic. that means I am chronically forgetting to turn on the headlights in my quick attack, which is not; AND has its DRLs nearly as bright as the headlights.
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