|
|
Post by wvengineer on Jan 26, 2014 20:07:09 GMT
Surprise snow storm today. They were calling for 0.2", got 2.5. I got stuck out in it in my minivan and now I see what my wife has been complaining about with it in the bad weather. Took 1 hr 35 min to drive the 15 miles get home and that thing was sliding around quite a bit.
After I finally get home, I hop online to look for snow tires for that thing. You know it's a bad winter when most places are sold out before the end of January. Chains are still readily available. Looks like I'll be ordering a set once my pay check hits. That should get me though the winter and I can get snow tires over the summer.
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 26, 2014 21:53:18 GMT
Not sure 2.5" qualifies for tire chains, but I know how bad those mini-vans can be in snow.
About 4 years ago, we were in WV visiting my wife's family and there was a slight snowfall. It was only a dusting, but turned to ice and we ended up sliding down a hill backwards in that mini-van. After that, my wife said, that was it, and she wanted something with 4WD. I told her to pick out what she wanted and we'd get it. She found a 2003 Ford Excursion with oversized tires and 4" lift. When we went to see it, it was a monster. I figured she would never want to drive something that big. To my surprise, she climbed (literally) into the driver's seat, and looking out over a hood that seemed to extend into the next zip code, said, in true Mythbuster's fashion, "Now THIS is what I'm talking about"!
We bought it and it's been a real snow machine. It even handles snow better than my Jeep.
|
|
|
|
Post by wvengineer on Jan 26, 2014 23:20:55 GMT
Driving WV in the winter, tires are more important than drive train. A cheap FWD car with descent snow tires will get you though most of what we have. Studded snow tires are even better. The few times when chains or snow tires didn't work, you probably shouldn't be out anyway.
I had a Subaru, but never got around to getting snow tires before the engine blew. I had better luck getting though the bad weather with the FWD cars with snow tires than I ever did with the AWD Subie. Good tires would have helped, but Subaru decided they were not interested in keeping customers before I could get around to getting them. One of the best snow cars for me was a 2007 Hyundai Elentra with Bridgestone Blizteks. I would rather get a 2WD car and put the money saved on AWD towards an extra set of rims with snow tires. Not to mention what you save on gas when you don't need the extra traction.
I see chains as a cheep way to get though until you can get the tires. I have a set of chains for My fusion and that car could go though ice and snow better than that Subaru ever could with all season tires. I can get a good set of chains form Amazon for $80 and have them here by the end of the week, whereas it will be months before they have snow tires in stock and that gives me time time to save up the $350 or so for tires and rims.
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 27, 2014 0:21:40 GMT
Nothing works very well on ice. Studded tires are probably the best choice but they are illegal in my state. Living in the upper Midwest snow country, I will never buy another vehicle that isn't AWD or selectable 4WD. It makes that big a difference. And it's not just getting stuck. 4WD just maneuvers so much better on sloppy roads.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2014 0:42:52 GMT
Surprise snow storm today. They were calling for 0.2", got 2.5. I got stuck out in it in my minivan and now I see what my wife has been complaining about with it in the bad weather. Took 1 hr 35 min to drive the 15 miles get home and that thing was sliding around quite a bit. After I finally get home, I hop online to look for snow tires for that thing. You know it's a bad winter when most places are sold out before the end of January. Chains are still readily available. Looks like I'll be ordering a set once my pay check hits. That should get me though the winter and I can get snow tires over the summer. I highly recommend the advanced formula studless. having tiny little pinpricks sticking out of your tires really only make a difference on polished ice or bare pavement - and the difference on bare pavement is only beneficial if you want to prove to a police officer that you were trying to stop. |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Jan 27, 2014 2:49:19 GMT
Nothing works very well on ice. Studded tires are probably the best choice but they are illegal in my state. Living in the upper Midwest snow country, I will never buy another vehicle that isn't AWD or selectable 4WD. It makes that big a difference. And it's not just getting stuck. 4WD just maneuvers so much better on sloppy roads. Chains & studs are both illegal in Connecticut. Went from a 4WD last winter to an AWD this winter and I can feel a difference in handling. The 4WD will get you out of trouble, the AWD will keep you from getting into trouble. Having memories of driving FWDs in the past, I will not go back. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2014 15:18:17 GMT
Nothing works very well on ice. Studded tires are probably the best choice but they are illegal in my state. Living in the upper Midwest snow country, I will never buy another vehicle that isn't AWD or selectable 4WD. It makes that big a difference. And it's not just getting stuck. 4WD just maneuvers so much better on sloppy roads. Chains & studs are both illegal in Connecticut. Went from a 4WD last winter to an AWD this winter and I can feel a difference in handling. The 4WD will get you out of trouble, the AWD will keep you from getting into trouble. Having memories of driving FWDs in the past, I will not go back. I think the idea that FWD has superior traction in 2WD platforms is a myth in and of itself. certainly having the engine over the drive wheels places more pressure on them; but dynamic traction is a lot more complicated than that. having driven my Jeep in both front drive and rear drive modes - I can say for a fact that front drive mode was a lot dicier to drive. |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Jan 27, 2014 15:34:12 GMT
I remember back during the 90's that all my friends would have to 'sandbag'* their (front-engine) FWDs.
*The act of putting sandbags, bricks, bodies, etc, in the trunk to add weight to the rear and (in theory) improve handling or, at least, decrease how often the car fishtailed in snow/ice conditions.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2014 16:06:35 GMT
I remember back during the 90's that all my friends would have to 'sandbag'* their (front-engine) FWDs. *The act of putting sandbags, bricks, bodies, etc, in the trunk to add weight to the rear and (in theory) improve handling or, at least, decrease how often the car fishtailed in snow/ice conditions. now I am picturing how terribly a rear engine front drive car would handle under any circumstances... |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 27, 2014 16:16:23 GMT
now I am picturing how terribly a rear engine front drive car would handle under any circumstances... Did anyone ever actually make such a beast? |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Jan 27, 2014 16:19:04 GMT
I remember back during the 90's that all my friends would have to 'sandbag'* their (front-engine) FWDs. *The act of putting sandbags, bricks, bodies, etc, in the trunk to add weight to the rear and (in theory) improve handling or, at least, decrease how often the car fishtailed in snow/ice conditions. now I am picturing how terribly a rear engine front drive car would handle under any circumstances... I wouldn't want to attempt a snow/ice covered hill with that configuration, with your wheels spinning in the front & over half the weight of your car in the back. |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Jan 27, 2014 23:05:22 GMT
I remember back during the 90's that all my friends would have to 'sandbag'* their (front-engine) FWDs. *The act of putting sandbags, bricks, bodies, etc, in the trunk to add weight to the rear and (in theory) improve handling or, at least, decrease how often the car fishtailed in snow/ice conditions. Say what you will, but driving a FWD car on snow or ice is no more complicated than driving a 4WD, AWD or RWD. If you're used to it that is. And that's what it comes down to. I'm used to driving a FWD on snow and ice and I've only had problems once, under conditions where the road was so icy that you could barely stand still on it, let alone steer any type of vehicle short of one with belts on it. I'd personally have a problem with a RWD car, but that's because I've only ever driven one for 20 minutes. Give me a week to get used to it and I'll probably do just as well in that as I do with my own FWD car. Is there an advantage to 4WD/AWD? Sure there is. If you get yourself stuck. Other than that, I don't see much of a problem. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2014 0:24:46 GMT
now I am picturing how terribly a rear engine front drive car would handle under any circumstances... Did anyone ever actually make such a beast? I would be surprised if they did. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 28, 2014 0:28:46 GMT
Is there an advantage to 4WD/AWD? Sure there is. If you get yourself stuck. Other than that, I don't see much of a problem. It's not just about getting stuck. On slippery roads, 4WD/AWD will out perform FWD or RWD in terms stability and driveability. I've had considerable experience with all and will never own a 2WD vehicle again. EVER. But as you said, experience plays a big role. That's why it's important to get out in bad conditions in an empty parking lot or deserted street and see how your car, be it 4WD, AWD, FWD or RWD, will performed. Test stopping, accelerating and making sharp turns. It's better to learn how your vehicle will react before you are in heavy traffic and in a panic situation. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 28, 2014 0:31:42 GMT
Did anyone ever actually make such a beast? I would be surprised if they did. I have seen some vehicles that were steered by the rear wheels. That's got to take some getting use to. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2014 0:34:52 GMT
I remember back during the 90's that all my friends would have to 'sandbag'* their (front-engine) FWDs. *The act of putting sandbags, bricks, bodies, etc, in the trunk to add weight to the rear and (in theory) improve handling or, at least, decrease how often the car fishtailed in snow/ice conditions. Say what you will, but driving a FWD car on snow or ice is no more complicated than driving a 4WD, AWD or RWD. If you're used to it that is. And that's what it comes down to. I'm used to driving a FWD on snow and ice and I've only had problems once, under conditions where the road was so icy that you could barely stand still on it, let alone steer any type of vehicle short of one with belts on it. I'd personally have a problem with a RWD car, but that's because I've only ever driven one for 20 minutes. Give me a week to get used to it and I'll probably do just as well in that as I do with my own FWD car. Is there an advantage to 4WD/AWD? Sure there is. If you get yourself stuck. Other than that, I don't see much of a problem. no problem at all except as soon as you start moving or hit an upgrade, the laws of physics transfer the weight from the front wheels to the back wheels. I only had problems with my rear drive on the snow once, and that had more to do with the fact that I was driving twice as fast as I should have been and taking my share of the road out of the middle when I met oncoming traffic. at that point, it became a case of the best outcome I could achieve was nobody's car damaged except my own. 4 wheel drive, i've had problems twice. once from having the front hubs locked and hitting black ice. The other time from being on what was essentially machine polished ice with mud tires instead of snow tires. front wheel drive, I had problems once. I had to drive up a steep driveway. I made it up by turning the car around so the drive wheels were in the back where God intended them to be. and then the crash in the service truck - the front end came loose, and there wasn't anything I could do about it. I couldn't brake without losing what little directional control I had left, and no soft landing area to aim for - unless you want to count the river. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2014 0:37:42 GMT
I would be surprised if they did. I have seen some vehicles that were steered by the rear wheels. That's got to take some getting use to. meaning passenger vehicles? rear steering forklifts only take a little adjustment - and that is mostly in timing. it isn't much worse than changing cars. |
|
|
|
Post by kharnynb on Jan 29, 2014 5:18:19 GMT
The new nokian studless winter tyres are very nearly as good as the studded. In general, i wouldn't buy anything else for wintertyres than nokian.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jan 29, 2014 7:58:45 GMT
The art of driving FWD is to not let the back overtake the front.
It may try, and in some case, letting it try can be beneficial, but dont actually let it.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jan 29, 2014 15:12:43 GMT
The art of driving FWD is to not let the back overtake the front. It may try, and in some case, letting it try can be beneficial, but dont actually let it. the art of driving FWD is applying enough power to make the car go somewhere, without applying so much you get wheelspin. with H rated performance tires, I could still get wheelspin in my Acura up to 3rd gear (out of 5) the time I drove the Jeep with front wheel drive, I had trouble NOT getting wheelspin in every gear. |
|
