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Post by ironhold on Feb 2, 2014 4:16:23 GMT
One of the more common fairy tales in American society is that of the three little pigs. Each pig made his house out of a different material. One used straw. One used wood. One used bricks. One day, a wolf came after the pigs. He was able to blow down the straw and wood houses, but the brick house withstood even his best efforts. Some variations on the story, such as the Porky Pig cartoon "Pigs In A Polka", have it that the pigs who made their houses out of straw and lumber were less industrious and more foolhardy than the pig who made his house out of brick. At the core of the story is this: straw and wood fail against strong gusts of wind, but brick endures. But is this really the case? There are multiple ways of constructing houses from each of the three materials. For example, consider wood. This could be anything from a log cabin (in which logs were stacked and secured as walls) to a hut made from sticks to a modern-day home made of beams and panels. The team could make scale models of different methods (perhaps three methods for each material), and then subject them to increasingly strong wind currents until they fail to see how strong or weak they actually are. They could also make note of the respective difficulty in building these structures using the materials and techniques to see if the first two pigs were as lazy as some depictions say they were.
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Post by the light works on Feb 2, 2014 15:51:29 GMT
the official story specifies the second pig made his out of sticks.
but to give some technical insight: our construction standard is wood frame houses - which are required to be built to withstand 150 MPH direct wind loads.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 2, 2014 16:43:43 GMT
In the story the wolf says 'I'll blow your house down'...so maybe they could remove the wind factor and use explosives?
Say build three houses of the respective materials and place them an equal distance from an explosive charge to see which house withstands the blast best.
This might not be as cut and dried as it seems, as to me there is a reasonable chance that 'straw' and 'wooden' structures might be better able to withstand a blast by flexing. Something that a brick house might not be able to do as well.
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Post by the light works on Feb 2, 2014 23:31:08 GMT
In the story the wolf says 'I'll blow your house down'...so maybe they could remove the wind factor and use explosives? Say build three houses of the respective materials and place them an equal distance from an explosive charge to see which house withstands the blast best. This might not be as cut and dried as it seems, as to me there is a reasonable chance that 'straw' and 'wooden' structures might be better able to withstand a blast by flexing. Something that a brick house might not be able to do as well. that is stretching the premise a bit... not that they haven't done so in the past.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 2, 2014 23:51:16 GMT
They could still do the wind testing. But adding explosives would make for a great ending.
Besides, your modern Wolf is much more likely to use C4 than herniate themselves trying to blow down a house.
Well, OK your REALLY modern Wolf would just order pork chops online.
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Post by the light works on Feb 3, 2014 0:44:47 GMT
well, obviously you would ramp things up.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 3, 2014 4:35:14 GMT
Perhaps the team could stick an actual pig in each house to see how much damage the pig would sustain from the house giving way in the event that the house *was* blown over, thereby indicating whether or not the wolf's tactic of destroying the house around them would even leave him with anything edible.
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Post by the light works on Feb 3, 2014 4:50:08 GMT
Perhaps the team could stick an actual pig in each house to see how much damage the pig would sustain from the house giving way in the event that the house *was* blown over, thereby indicating whether or not the wolf's tactic of destroying the house around them would even leave him with anything edible. you aren't all that familiar with dogs' dietary habits are you? nonetheless, it would be a good addition.
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 4, 2014 4:00:22 GMT
Personally, I find the jet engine wind machines to be more entertaining than explosives. IT is more fun to watch it slowly get ripped to shreds than just a single shock wave.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Feb 4, 2014 14:56:26 GMT
The one variable that is unknown is how much time each pig had to build their repective house. Part of the test could revolve around how fast someone could build houses made of straw/sticks/brick. Add in guesses/estimates/assumptions about how long it would have taken to get to each house and see if each pig would have had enough built to consider their structure a house.
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Post by the light works on Feb 4, 2014 15:07:20 GMT
Personally, I find the jet engine wind machines to be more entertaining than explosives. IT is more fun to watch it slowly get ripped to shreds than just a single shock wave. this is true.
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Post by the light works on Feb 4, 2014 15:08:52 GMT
The one variable that is unknown is how much time each pig had to build their repective house. Part of the test could revolve around how fast someone could build houses made of straw/sticks/brick. Add in guesses/estimates/assumptions about how long it would have taken to get to each house and see if each pig would have had enough built to consider their structure a house. That is stretching it a bit. the assumption in the childrens story is that the pigs were under no time constraints, and instead chose (in the case of the first two) to put in minimal effort.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2014 13:29:52 GMT
Trying to work on this, and, well, it depends on construction methods?...
There is a new-ish method that uses bales of Straw as building blocks for walls that give a high insulation rating, and thick walls, which you then overcoat with "Mud". The walls are soo thick and compressed they actually are fire-resistant (who knew?..) because you dont get enough o2 inside to burn...
And they are, as long as they are maintained, almost weather proof... including high winds... Roofing materials need to be looked at in that though, but then again, a week roof on even the strongest other construction can leave weak gaps?....
So I suppose you have to consider building construction methods.
Although, here in the UK, four seasons in one day, Brick housing is almost completely weather proof, unless in exceptional circumstances, such as the 300yr storm cycle we seam to be getting right now.... Floods happen to the best of defences in low lying areas.
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2014 15:48:27 GMT
Trying to work on this, and, well, it depends on construction methods?... There is a new-ish method that uses bales of Straw as building blocks for walls that give a high insulation rating, and thick walls, which you then overcoat with "Mud". The walls are soo thick and compressed they actually are fire-resistant (who knew?..) because you dont get enough o2 inside to burn... And they are, as long as they are maintained, almost weather proof... including high winds... Roofing materials need to be looked at in that though, but then again, a week roof on even the strongest other construction can leave weak gaps?.... So I suppose you have to consider building construction methods. Although, here in the UK, four seasons in one day, Brick housing is almost completely weather proof, unless in exceptional circumstances, such as the 300yr storm cycle we seam to be getting right now.... Floods happen to the best of defences in low lying areas. you mean like this? in watching, mind - this is much better than the last time, when it was discovered that the original builder had just set the trusses on top of the walls, and had not installed the mandatory "hurricane clips" (a steel strap formed to be nailed between the rafter and the wall cap) I would suggest that to be fair to the fable, it should be tested using the construction methods appropriate to the time the story became popular.
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 9, 2014 19:51:41 GMT
If we count wattle and daub as wood construction,, then I know of a few old buildings that have survived storms over the centuries, the Old Moathouse for example or Aye Old Fighting Cocks ( the recognised worlds old pub), others make claims about it but this is the one Guinness accepts) which dates back to the 11th century.
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2014 22:02:36 GMT
hm. maybe we should look at a comparison of how the strength and permanence of homes built with various materials has varied over the years.
we'd probably find that the permanence has gone down while the strength has gone up.
I.E. a modern wood frame (lightweight construction) house can survive a 125 MPH wind - but not 100 years of average days.
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Post by ironhold on Mar 3, 2017 10:44:50 GMT
Went peeking at old myths, found this thread, and had a thought.
"Brick" could also be "cinder block", right?
Not sure if it would make much of a difference in testing raw wind power, but it could make a difference in the blast shockwave.
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Post by GTCGreg on Mar 3, 2017 13:30:13 GMT
First step is to find three talking pigs.
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2017 15:33:47 GMT
First step is to find three talking pigs. that's easy. check the doughnut shops.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 4, 2017 10:25:44 GMT
Just saw this resurrected, and remembered back myself, because about a month ago, I thought of this thread, and forgot it again by the time I had got home. I had been through a wind-damaged place from a storm. In it were several damaged houses where the roofs had been lifted off by high winds. On the edge of this hamlet were a section of old thatched roofs.... Houses centuries old with an occasional re-thatch every 40 to 60 yrs or so.
One of those roofs has been there for decades. About 50 yrs since its last major re-thatch, and even then, all they do is remove the top surface and replace that, much of the under surface is "good as new".
How many storms have they survived?...
So I need to ask a question, in the face of up to 100mph storms that have wrecked this land of ours now and agaiun, just what DOES it take to blow off a thatched roof?...
Can they try this?..
Of course, Pick a house that is due for a re-thatch to do the "Over the top" test with, but pick one that has recently been thatched to see how strong a thatch really is...
And the over the top?.. we get hundreds of mini-tornadoes in UK every year, but can a thatch survive a roof-wrecking tornado of the size of those that wreck parts of USA every year?..
BTW, if possible, Get someone from the UK thatch industry to do a presentation of how to thatch a roof, and get various methods of construction tested, as there are as many differing ways to do thatch as there are materials supplied, a wizened time served thatcher from UK that has been a thatcher since his own days half a century ago as an apprentice will know most of them. I suspect there are thatched houses in USA, but of course, We ALWAYS do it better over here?.. [/sarcasm...]
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