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Post by OziRiS on Apr 26, 2015 17:49:24 GMT
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Post by the light works on Apr 26, 2015 21:29:34 GMT
now let's discuss this strange idea you have about vegetables belonging in pie... (actually let us know how it comes out - I might think about it sometime)
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 27, 2015 6:21:19 GMT
Read the article, and it all makes perfect sense. Weight the ingredients.... Of Bloody Course you should?... Who the heck does it in "cups" anyway?. I have a basic X oz of flour to Y oz of butter that I multiply to get the right amount, sugar NEVER replaces flour, you just add to taste, and other ingredients are "extra" as well, except the butter question, some go all butter, pork pies use Lard, some use half-and half, some add suet, some use shortening, but thats still the X of fat to Y of flour where the total of fat remains the same.
Water?.. I always have a small measuring jug of water, with an ice cube in it, because it pours better than a glass, and I add a bit at a time until its "right", there is no exact amount that works, because of what is said in the article, and also because different recipes need different pie crust.
Bake blind.... Yea, go for it, dont use expensive "baking beans" though, use Rice. Its better in so many ways, and whats more, it still works afterwards of you want to make a good baked rice pudding.
Rolling pin... Wooden. ALWAYS use wood. Its less susceptible than other things to temperature change, and if treated right, is also non stick.
How?.. Well, first, you have to remember its WOOD. Sandpaper the bloody thing with extra fine 200+ grit paper to get it nice and smooth, put in a warm oven, and get it warm, then bathe it in oil.... Of course, vegetable oil. Back in the oven with it until it absorbs that oil. Then sand it down again once it cools. Now make sure you flour the thing before you use it every time.
(I once knew a chef who would toss his rolling pin into the deep fat fryer.... dont ask, he was a twit...)
Tapered stick thing?.. like why?.. I want one that goes in a straight line. Mine is also one piece, and no fancy carving handles that just trap food. You want nice clean lines and no fancy stuff, and if you can get Bamboo wood or some other hard wood, go for it, because that makes it even dishwasher safe if someone "forgets", you just need to re oil it when it comes out (as above...)
Vegetables in pie... Just how you do chicken and leek without the leeks?... Beef and onion without onion?
Cheese and broccoli.... Ok, hang on a mo, you have the point on that one. Who the hell bakes broccoli in a pie and expects it to come out in any way other than mushy and denture friendly. (It also tastes like it looks, something thats green and goes splut...)
My main advice echoes one important thing, dont over-work the dough. Handle it as little as possible. Be firm, aim to roll it out to shape as quick as you can and use it just once. I know chefs who will never re-roll dough more than the one time its rolled out, but then again, they alowys use "just enough" and their wastage is minimum?... Thats just down to experience though.
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 27, 2015 8:05:56 GMT
Just a quick question, are we getting anywhere near opening a thread in strange ideas about certain cookery myths?...
Is it a myth that pastry should be kept cold. Until its cooked, obviously?... Is it a myth that pastry is a "live entity" and no set recipe will produce the same results twice. Is it a myth that the best ingredients produce the best results. Butter is butter, isnt it?... [not sarcasm as a whole but just to ask the questions..] And surely the cheep flour from supermarkets low price range is the same as the expensive named stuff?... Is there really a difference in the other ingredients?...
I sort of know the answers to this already, but does the rest of the TV audience....
And how the hell do we get a Jamie want big boom in there somewhere. They already did the aerosol of fine powder thing.....
For the record, I know quality counts. You pay more for quality, but thats sort of how it goes.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 27, 2015 8:18:27 GMT
now let's discuss this strange idea you have about vegetables belonging in pie... (actually let us know how it comes out - I might think about it sometime) There's a long standing tradition in this country (and many other places in Europe) of leek pies, spinach pies and other vegetable only pies. They're not meant as a main course, but as a side dish to go with a piece of meat or fish. There's also a tradition of slathering large amounts of sour cream onto the pie, but I suspect that was added once people realized, as I noted earlier, that most pie crusts over here have the taste and texture of salted drywall. Here's an example: www.jamieoliver.com/magazine/recipes-view.php?title=spinach-pieThat one uses store bought filo pastry, so it might actually be easy enough to do with relative success.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 27, 2015 8:25:40 GMT
Read the article, and it all makes perfect sense. Weight the ingredients.... Of Bloody Course you should?... Who the heck does it in "cups" anyway?. I have a basic X oz of flour to Y oz of butter that I multiply to get the right amount, sugar NEVER replaces flour, you just add to taste, and other ingredients are "extra" as well, except the butter question, some go all butter, pork pies use Lard, some use half-and half, some add suet, some use shortening, but thats still the X of fat to Y of flour where the total of fat remains the same. Water?.. I always have a small measuring jug of water, with an ice cube in it, because it pours better than a glass, and I add a bit at a time until its "right", there is no exact amount that works, because of what is said in the article, and also because different recipes need different pie crust. Bake blind.... Yea, go for it, dont use expensive "baking beans" though, use Rice. Its better in so many ways, and whats more, it still works afterwards of you want to make a good baked rice pudding. Rolling pin... Wooden. ALWAYS use wood. Its less susceptible than other things to temperature change, and if treated right, is also non stick. How?.. Well, first, you have to remember its WOOD. Sandpaper the bloody thing with extra fine 200+ grit paper to get it nice and smooth, put in a warm oven, and get it warm, then bathe it in oil.... Of course, vegetable oil. Back in the oven with it until it absorbs that oil. Then sand it down again once it cools. Now make sure you flour the thing before you use it every time. (I once knew a chef who would toss his rolling pin into the deep fat fryer.... dont ask, he was a twit...) Tapered stick thing?.. like why?.. I want one that goes in a straight line. Mine is also one piece, and no fancy carving handles that just trap food. You want nice clean lines and no fancy stuff, and if you can get Bamboo wood or some other hard wood, go for it, because that makes it even dishwasher safe if someone "forgets", you just need to re oil it when it comes out (as above...) Quick question: Many recipes I've found call for pricking the dough in the bottom of the pan with a fork and pre-baking the crust for anywhere between 10 and 25 minutes before putting in the filling. The fork-pricking is supposedly to stop the crust from forming air pockets during baking and the pre-baking is to ensure that the dough actually turns to crust and not just a soggy mess once "wet" ingredients are introduced. I sort of get the pre-baking to prevent soggy mess thing, but I'm not sure about the fork-pricking. Why would you want to prevent bubbles from forming? Wouldn't that just give me exactly the thing I don't want; the hard, drywall-like bottom? Aren't the bubbles supposed to be there to provide the flaky texture?
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Post by the light works on Apr 27, 2015 14:50:30 GMT
Read the article, and it all makes perfect sense. Weight the ingredients.... Of Bloody Course you should?... Who the heck does it in "cups" anyway?. I have a basic X oz of flour to Y oz of butter that I multiply to get the right amount, sugar NEVER replaces flour, you just add to taste, and other ingredients are "extra" as well, except the butter question, some go all butter, pork pies use Lard, some use half-and half, some add suet, some use shortening, but thats still the X of fat to Y of flour where the total of fat remains the same. Water?.. I always have a small measuring jug of water, with an ice cube in it, because it pours better than a glass, and I add a bit at a time until its "right", there is no exact amount that works, because of what is said in the article, and also because different recipes need different pie crust. Bake blind.... Yea, go for it, dont use expensive "baking beans" though, use Rice. Its better in so many ways, and whats more, it still works afterwards of you want to make a good baked rice pudding. Rolling pin... Wooden. ALWAYS use wood. Its less susceptible than other things to temperature change, and if treated right, is also non stick. How?.. Well, first, you have to remember its WOOD. Sandpaper the bloody thing with extra fine 200+ grit paper to get it nice and smooth, put in a warm oven, and get it warm, then bathe it in oil.... Of course, vegetable oil. Back in the oven with it until it absorbs that oil. Then sand it down again once it cools. Now make sure you flour the thing before you use it every time. (I once knew a chef who would toss his rolling pin into the deep fat fryer.... dont ask, he was a twit...) Tapered stick thing?.. like why?.. I want one that goes in a straight line. Mine is also one piece, and no fancy carving handles that just trap food. You want nice clean lines and no fancy stuff, and if you can get Bamboo wood or some other hard wood, go for it, because that makes it even dishwasher safe if someone "forgets", you just need to re oil it when it comes out (as above...) Vegetables in pie... Just how you do chicken and leek without the leeks?... Beef and onion without onion? Cheese and broccoli.... Ok, hang on a mo, you have the point on that one. Who the hell bakes broccoli in a pie and expects it to come out in any way other than mushy and denture friendly. (It also tastes like it looks, something thats green and goes splut...) My main advice echoes one important thing, dont over-work the dough. Handle it as little as possible. Be firm, aim to roll it out to shape as quick as you can and use it just once. I know chefs who will never re-roll dough more than the one time its rolled out, but then again, they alowys use "just enough" and their wastage is minimum?... Thats just down to experience though. boy do you put a lot of work into it. I don't use a one-piece rolling pin - mine rides on bearing races. (another thing it took me over a year to find - and then I found it in a cheap stuff store for a fraction of the price of the ones that just had plastic bushings) never done any sort of fancy preparation - just flour it and go to town - wipe it down with a clean damp cloth when I''m done and put it back away. and dip-level-pour works great for measuring both dry and wet goods the only thing we tend to use weight on is recipes that start with "take 10 pounds of flour, and a dozen eggs" but as for vegetables in pie - yes, vegetables as an enhancement for meat. but I'm talking chicken and leek without the chicken.
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Post by the light works on Apr 27, 2015 14:52:06 GMT
Read the article, and it all makes perfect sense. Weight the ingredients.... Of Bloody Course you should?... Who the heck does it in "cups" anyway?. I have a basic X oz of flour to Y oz of butter that I multiply to get the right amount, sugar NEVER replaces flour, you just add to taste, and other ingredients are "extra" as well, except the butter question, some go all butter, pork pies use Lard, some use half-and half, some add suet, some use shortening, but thats still the X of fat to Y of flour where the total of fat remains the same. Water?.. I always have a small measuring jug of water, with an ice cube in it, because it pours better than a glass, and I add a bit at a time until its "right", there is no exact amount that works, because of what is said in the article, and also because different recipes need different pie crust. Bake blind.... Yea, go for it, dont use expensive "baking beans" though, use Rice. Its better in so many ways, and whats more, it still works afterwards of you want to make a good baked rice pudding. Rolling pin... Wooden. ALWAYS use wood. Its less susceptible than other things to temperature change, and if treated right, is also non stick. How?.. Well, first, you have to remember its WOOD. Sandpaper the bloody thing with extra fine 200+ grit paper to get it nice and smooth, put in a warm oven, and get it warm, then bathe it in oil.... Of course, vegetable oil. Back in the oven with it until it absorbs that oil. Then sand it down again once it cools. Now make sure you flour the thing before you use it every time. (I once knew a chef who would toss his rolling pin into the deep fat fryer.... dont ask, he was a twit...) Tapered stick thing?.. like why?.. I want one that goes in a straight line. Mine is also one piece, and no fancy carving handles that just trap food. You want nice clean lines and no fancy stuff, and if you can get Bamboo wood or some other hard wood, go for it, because that makes it even dishwasher safe if someone "forgets", you just need to re oil it when it comes out (as above...) Quick question: Many recipes I've found call for pricking the dough in the bottom of the pan with a fork and pre-baking the crust for anywhere between 10 and 25 minutes before putting in the filling. The fork-pricking is supposedly to stop the crust from forming air pockets during baking and the pre-baking is to ensure that the dough actually turns to crust and not just a soggy mess once "wet" ingredients are introduced. I sort of get the pre-baking to prevent soggy mess thing, but I'm not sure about the fork-pricking. Why would you want to prevent bubbles from forming? Wouldn't that just give me exactly the thing I don't want; the hard, drywall-like bottom? Aren't the bubbles supposed to be there to provide the flaky texture? bubbles IN the crust = good. bubbles UNDER the crust = bad. (an even then you don't want big bubbles) - and I don't cook anything that partially bakes the crust beforehand - its either bake it all as one, or bake the crust and then add the filling without further baking. - that might just be my recipes, though.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 27, 2015 16:38:42 GMT
bubbles IN the crust = good. bubbles UNDER the crust = bad. (an even then you don't want big bubbles) - and I don't cook anything that partially bakes the crust beforehand - its either bake it all as one, or bake the crust and then add the filling without further baking. - that might just be my recipes, though. And where does that leave me in terms of pricking vs. not pricking the bottom? Get your minds out of the gutter, you deviants!
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Post by the light works on Apr 27, 2015 17:22:30 GMT
bubbles IN the crust = good. bubbles UNDER the crust = bad. (an even then you don't want big bubbles) - and I don't cook anything that partially bakes the crust beforehand - its either bake it all as one, or bake the crust and then add the filling without further baking. - that might just be my recipes, though. And where does that leave me in terms of pricking vs. not pricking the bottom? Get your minds out of the gutter, you deviants! when I have baked empty crusts I have pricked the bottom.
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 28, 2015 5:52:58 GMT
Have you tried with baking beans or rice. If you blind bake with no filling, the crust on the bottom may rise into huge bubbles... If you put the weight of a filling in, it wont. So prick if your doing it empty, less need if you use rice or beans....
As for roller bearings in rolling pins, you ever tried cleaning them?... you get all kinds of gunk inside. Mine always get washed thoroughly after use, same as my boards, in boiling water. If that affects the wood, then its the wrong wood.... Hence the boiling will eventually remove the oils in the wood, especially if that with detergent. So they need re-oiling every now and again.
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Post by the light works on Apr 28, 2015 14:54:03 GMT
Have you tried with baking beans or rice. If you blind bake with no filling, the crust on the bottom may rise into huge bubbles... If you put the weight of a filling in, it wont. So prick if your doing it empty, less need if you use rice or beans.... As for roller bearings in rolling pins, you ever tried cleaning them?... you get all kinds of gunk inside. Mine always get washed thoroughly after use, same as my boards, in boiling water. If that affects the wood, then its the wrong wood.... Hence the boiling will eventually remove the oils in the wood, especially if that with detergent. So they need re-oiling every now and again. if my rolling pin is buried up to the axle, I'm doing something wrong.
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 29, 2015 8:10:13 GMT
So you dont use your hands on the handle... and transfer food there... A Good rolling pin gets a light dusting of flour?..
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Post by the light works on Apr 29, 2015 14:22:43 GMT
So you dont use your hands on the handle... and transfer food there... A Good rolling pin gets a light dusting of flour?.. a light dusting, not buried to the axles. - and I keep my hands clean while I'm cooking.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 29, 2015 14:25:16 GMT
So you dont use your hands on the handle... and transfer food there... A Good rolling pin gets a light dusting of flour?.. a light dusting, not buried to the axles. - and I keep my hands clean while I'm cooking. Wait, what...? You keep your hands clean while you're cooking? How do you do that while baking?
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Post by the light works on Apr 29, 2015 14:30:32 GMT
a light dusting, not buried to the axles. - and I keep my hands clean while I'm cooking. Wait, what...? You keep your hands clean while you're cooking? How do you do that while baking? I have this clever thing in my countertop that's kind of like a creek only indoors and with warm water. if I'm going to be handling non-machine-washable tools or ingredient containers, I wash my hands. (yes, I consider my knives machine washable - they aren't that exclusive that I can't sharpen or replace them)
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 29, 2015 14:35:58 GMT
Wait, what...? You keep your hands clean while you're cooking? How do you do that while baking? I have this clever thing in my countertop that's kind of like a creek only indoors and with warm water. if I'm going to be handling non-machine-washable tools or ingredient containers, I wash my hands. (yes, I consider my knives machine washable - they aren't that exclusive that I can't sharpen or replace them) No, I get that you have a sink and faucet and you use them to wash your hands when you're done handling one thing and go on to the next, but how do you KEEP your hands clean WHILE cooking?
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Post by the light works on Apr 29, 2015 15:12:53 GMT
I have this clever thing in my countertop that's kind of like a creek only indoors and with warm water. if I'm going to be handling non-machine-washable tools or ingredient containers, I wash my hands. (yes, I consider my knives machine washable - they aren't that exclusive that I can't sharpen or replace them) No, I get that you have a sink and faucet and you use them to wash your hands when you're done handling one thing and go on to the next, but how do you KEEP your hands clean WHILE cooking? by repeating the process as often as necessary.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 29, 2015 17:42:48 GMT
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 30, 2015 6:07:08 GMT
a light dusting, not buried to the axles. - and I keep my hands clean while I'm cooking. Wait, what...? You keep your hands clean while you're cooking? How do you do that while baking? Nope nope, you cant do that, as Oziris suggests, get your bloody hands in there, when making any kind of dough, you get your hands involved.
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