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Post by silverdragon on Jul 30, 2014 7:23:35 GMT
So you need to launch a rocket.
I had a strange idea... those exploding water heaters that they are getting good at?...
Hows about you use the power of a steam boiler and go literally ballistic with it.
How far can Adam and Jamie mess with a water heater to make it a steam powered rocket?....
Can they get the first high altitude non petrochemical rocket for that yearly Rocket launch show?...
Come on, I challenge you, can they get Orbit with Steam....
Anyone got any bloody good ideas on how to get steam in space.... or steam into space to be pedantic...
Can a cascade of ejectable parts be used to stage a rocket high enough.
Can you start with a ground attached heater to heat up the first stage.
Can that first stage charge up the second stage.
Can you time the explosions a little better to get better control.
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2014 10:46:16 GMT
while it would be awesome to see - I think that is too complex a problem for my skills.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 31, 2014 10:53:08 GMT
Short answer is no, getting into orbit would require a sustained thrust that exploding water heaters simply can't provide. Nor could you use a multi-stage system because the heaters don't fail in a fully predictable manner - meaning that no matter how you tried you couldn't get the tank to fail the second you wanted/needed it too.
The idea of a steam-powered rocket is, however, a rather interesting one.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 3, 2014 11:34:16 GMT
Multi-Stage.
Just how much of a rocket launch is the initial first few feet?.....
Could a tower arrangement be made where the initial lift stage ONLY reaches the top of the tower, a kind of restrained booster system, that fires with the main boost, just helps it the first few feet....
Could a huge pressurised tank that was ground based, underground even, and a valve release, be used to push a rocket up from the launch platform....
Predicting fail, maybe, I was thinking rather pressurised valve release system rather than a fail.
A Valve would control the flow, rather than just dump all the pressure in a random manner?...
First few low orbit stages to be "Flown" back down, use some form of controlled decent rather than eject and freefall, reusable in mind.
Could tanks of pressurised steam partially pre heated and valve release be used rather than burning fuel in flight.
Is steam the best idea here?... would releasing some other gas get more power?...
Would burning a fuel in an exhaust pipe that heats water to flash to steam provide more thrust to weight that just burning fuel alone?....
ERm... is this actually rocket science?...
Its beyond my pay grade, I know, I just wondered is all.
And sometimes asking questions gets results you didnt expect....
And all this, if we can get a valve release, Adam and Jamie can do more steam "explosions".....
NICE!
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 3, 2014 12:46:57 GMT
Basically you are asking if you could give a rocket an initial boost by firing it out of a steam powered gun?
In theory yes, depending on the size of the 'rocket'. You're still not getting enough thrust to get remotely close to achieving orbit though. Unless your steam-tank happens to be the size of Manhattan and the 'projectile' is basket-ball sized.
A valve release system is complex, but might work well - the main problem MB wise is that this wouldn't be something you could control from the ground. So they'd either need to design and build a computer control system, which they are not doing in a week, or try to design something mechanical which would add weight.
The other problem would be unpredictable thrust, as the heaters would not heat up at the same rates which in turn would make (say) trying to make the valves fail in succession as the pressure builds impossible. On the same topic the pressure in a water heater will start to drop as soon as you stop putting energy into the tank and it starts to cool down. You'd either need to include a power source that could continue to heat the tanks when the rocket is off the ground (and hence detached from an external power source) or add a lot of insulation around the tanks to reduce the rate at which they cool down. Both would add significantly to the weight of the craft.
The only realistic way to design a steam rocket because of this would be to use a single tank...although you might be able to make a single large tank that has several compartments that 'fail' (or at least are vented) in sequence. But again, this would be a major build and a difficult design to say the least.
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Post by the light works on Aug 3, 2014 14:19:06 GMT
one note - Silver was not saying to make the valves FAIL in succession - he was saying to make the valves WORK in succession.
If I am reading what he is saying correctly, you make a tall launch tower, then you make a booster out of a tank that is rated to operate at 1010 Silvers of pre-steam charge, with a parafoil recovery system, mount your rocket on top of that, and then set it on top of another tank that also is rated to operate at 1010 Silvers of pre-steam charge. you charge both tanks to 1000 Silvers of pre-steam charge. each tank has a gate valve on the business end. you open the gate on the bottom tank, allowing the water to flashg to steam and shove the booster up the tower. when the booster reaches the tp of the tower, it opens the gate on it, launching it further upwards. as it begins to coast, the conventional rocket on top of it fires, and the rocket carries on as normal. - the booster then returns to the launch site via parafoil recovery.
not sure that it is more efficient than using the power to charge capacitors for a railgun assisted launch, but it is a cool idea.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 4, 2014 15:47:40 GMT
Right.... ok.... lets look at that... Astronauts have spherical s of steel anyway, but just how many of them would climb inside a barrel of a BIG gun just before launch?....
The idea is the same, but, looking at the way stunts are done, the steam cannon idea where a plunger is attached at the rear of the vehicle....
Just two or three of them arranged around the vehicle in-between the solid boosters normally used?...
I was thinking more of the valve(s) staying back here on earth.
Light the "Conventional" rockets, as soon as they start to lift, flip valve for that initial push....
With maybe a pre-loaded tank on board that is fired by the initial stage breaking off at the top of the tower to get the second stage "Boost".... this stage then being ejected shortly after and "Flown" back down, leaving the main engines and stages of a conventional rocket giving it the usual rush.
Just them not using as much fuel.....
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