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Post by silverdragon on Nov 25, 2014 8:57:42 GMT
Why do people fall over when shot?...
I aint sure where this one should go, its part weapons, part history, part movie, part strange, and in full, VERY strange, because there is no actual reason....
But, it has been claimed, by several accredited people, including QI, that people only fall over when they have been shot because thats what they see people do on the movie screen.
Now please discount dead people first, if you have been shot dead, to remain standing?..
And those who have been shot in vital places, such as knee caps....
But otherwise, a Non-Lethal through-and-through small calibre from not-so-close-range that the muzzle velocity would push you backwards in a place that didnt affect your ability to keep fighting....
And the fact that people who have just been shot dont know it yet.
Some people will only fall down when they realise they have been shot.
How to test.....
I actually dont know?... is anyone volunteering to be shot?...
And I am presuming that they would be shot whilst wearing a full bullet proof vest here.
Hello Buster....?....
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 25, 2014 14:34:51 GMT
I think this phenomenon is only seen in movies. In the real world, if someone receives a non-severe gunshot wound, they don't fall down.
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Post by the light works on Nov 25, 2014 15:55:29 GMT
I find it difficult to conclude that a person who has just been shot is putting much energy into deciding what he should do next. It would seem to me that he is going to be a bit distracted.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 26, 2014 8:33:43 GMT
But distracted in what way?....
If I drop the heavy hammer on ones foot, do you fall over, hop about swearing profusely, or try and walk it off?...
Same with any other non serious injury.
My guess is in a hail of lead, you would carry on trying to get away from the shooter?....
Or even disable the shooter?...
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 26, 2014 13:40:45 GMT
People have been shot multiple times without falling over, or in some cases without noticing. I *think* the record is held by someone in the US who was shot 14 times before they were stopped - and they survived this.
MB already tested 'blown away', the idea that a gunshot could knock someone over, and busted it. This is similar, or at least the testing would have been covered by this earlier myth.
Unless you kill someone outright, cause a massive reduction in blood pressure that causes them to faint, stun them with pain/impact or hit nerves or muscles needed to walk/remain upright people can remain upright and mobile. Where we see real world examples it is usually from WW1, where troops exiting the trenches fall over in large numbers. In that case they were hit multiple times by machine gun fire and killed.
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 15:19:37 GMT
But distracted in what way?.... If I drop the heavy hammer on ones foot, do you fall over, hop about swearing profusely, or try and walk it off?... Same with any other non serious injury. My guess is in a hail of lead, you would carry on trying to get away from the shooter?.... Or even disable the shooter?... "oh, gee, I suddenly have a hole in my arm that is leaking blood. I think I should riffle through my memory to determine what is the socially normal response to such an event..." or "WTF? I just got shot!" hmmm... the heavy hammer on the foot - that is going to cause a physical reaction directly related to the ability to stand. having a chain binder spring and catch you on the forearm would be more relevant. if that happened to you would you grab your arm and utter a few choice phrases, or would you think about what someone in a movie did when they got hit in the arm? the times I was caught in a hail of paintballs, I would first return fire. in a hail of lead, I suspect I would automatically make myself as small a target as possible. and since I have never mastered the technique of falling up a tree, I suppose I would be left with falling to the ground. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 15:23:36 GMT
years ago, I saw footage of the original demonstration of the original "bulletproof" vest. the inventor put the vest on, then shot himself in the chest with a modest caliber handgun. the reaction to the impact caused him to nearly fall over - and HE was expecting to get hit. (he followed up by recovering his composure and turning to fire twice at a target)
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 26, 2014 15:38:36 GMT
years ago, I saw footage of the original demonstration of the original "bulletproof" vest. the inventor put the vest on, then shot himself in the chest with a modest caliber handgun. the reaction to the impact caused him to nearly fall over - and HE was expecting to get hit. (he followed up by recovering his composure and turning to fire twice at a target) The reason he was forced backwards was because the vest spread the impact energy of the bullet over his entire upper body all at once. If he had not been wearing the vest, the kinetic energy of the bullet would have been absorbed more slowly as it did its damage and less of it would have been used to accelerate his body backwards. If the bullet actually penetrated his body, it would have still had a lot of the kinetic energy left in it as it exited. That's the idea behind hollow point ammunition. The bullet is designed to mushroom into a larger area to it can expend all it's energy on the target and not simply pass through the target. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 15:42:58 GMT
years ago, I saw footage of the original demonstration of the original "bulletproof" vest. the inventor put the vest on, then shot himself in the chest with a modest caliber handgun. the reaction to the impact caused him to nearly fall over - and HE was expecting to get hit. (he followed up by recovering his composure and turning to fire twice at a target) The reason he was forced backwards was because the vest spread the impact energy of the bullet over his entire upper body all at once. If he had not been wearing the vest, the kinetic energy of the bullet would have been absorbed more slowly as it did its damage and less of it would have been used to accelerate his body backwards. this was more than just a kinetic reaction. this included physiological reactions. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 26, 2014 15:45:17 GMT
The reason he was forced backwards was because the vest spread the impact energy of the bullet over his entire upper body all at once. If he had not been wearing the vest, the kinetic energy of the bullet would have been absorbed more slowly as it did its damage and less of it would have been used to accelerate his body backwards. this was more than just a kinetic reaction. this included physiological reactions. If that's really true, then it goes back to SD's theory that people fall because they think the should fall. Personally, I'm not buying it. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 16:02:07 GMT
this was more than just a kinetic reaction. this included physiological reactions. If that's really true, then it goes back to SD's theory that people fall because they think the should fall. Personally, I'm not buying it. no, it doesn't. what he thought he should do was spin around and fire two shots at the target. It is what he had practiced doing (without actually shooting into the vest) and when he felt the impact of shooting into the vest, it disrupted what he intended to do with what his spinal reflexes caused him to do. I found youtube video of later demonstrations - in which he barely flinches before making his follow up shots; indicating that intentionality CAN overcome reflex - but for the average shooting victim, reflexes will override what you see in movies. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 26, 2014 16:23:49 GMT
You sure it wasn't that the kinetics of the vest impact just caught him off guard? He wasn't prepared to be bushed back that violently. After he knew what to expect, he knew how to counter it. It was the actual impact that caused him to spin, not physiological reaction. In the later demonstrations, it was physiological reaction that caused him NOT to spin. That said, the actual kinetics would have been completely different without the vest so comparing what happens with a vest and what happens in real life is irreverent to whether one falls simply because of being hit with a bullet.
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 16:41:33 GMT
You sure it wasn't that the kinetics of the vest impact just caught him off guard? He wasn't prepared to be bushed back that violently. After he knew what to expect, he knew how to counter it. It was the actual impact that caused him to spin, not physiological reaction. In the later demonstrations, it was physiological reaction that caused him NOT to spin. That said, the actual kinetics would have been completely different without the vest so comparing what happens with a vest and what happens in real life is irreverent to whether one falls simply because of being hit with a bullet. it was pretty clearly a "d***, that hurt" reaction the first time around. my point is that in an unexpected situation, your initial reaction is not going to be a measured reaction based on intellect or preconceptions. |
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