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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2017 13:45:51 GMT
This is my main objection to "Privatised" medicine. It HAS to be "State controlled" to ensure no one is skimming profit. Medical things need to be kept as far away as possible from Profit sharing. In that... IF, a BIG If, if you should invent the cure for cancer.... The tankyou package for doing that should be that someone somewhere ensures that you personally live a comfortable life, not exactly luxury, but a sort of "All bills paid" kind of average comfortable existance for the rest of your life as a thankyou for your forwarding of human knowledge. Be that on one lump sum or an investment that pays a salary. However, you shouldnt be the one on a million quid yacht just because you swamped the marked with Asprin, or more recently put a 5,000% "upjar" on a life extending drug that not many can afford anyway but have to take because they have a serious illness. This is why it HAS to be Stare controlled, to make sure that the right funds get paid to the right persons and the rest goes into medical research to still further forward human knowledge, whilst keeping the price of the product down to affordable by sa state controlled "Everyone is in" healthcare system that cares for everyone "Up to a certain point" That certain point has to be one pre-agreed by everyone paying into the system, And if the treatment of a very few takes the whole budget of that system, then it needs to be investigated why that is so expensive to do. And maybe drag that price down "By Law" to affordable. How will this attract investors?. IT WONT. Its not designed to do that, its not an investment for money making. This is an investment by the very people you are treating, in that what they pay in by an affordable monthly contribution, collectively, pays for the whole scheme to run. That scheme has an outlet for investment into research from its own funds... if you can invent new drugs on that limited budget, go ahead. I would be perfectly happy for anyone who invents a miracle cure to be bought out at a rate that not only compensates them for their time and expense of inventing it, but also allows them to live a comfortable life afterwards. my own objection is to the idea that you have a reverse lottery, and the poor dumb bastidge who NEEDS the miracle cure is selected to be the one who pays the inventor off. I am also in objection to a person who piggybacks on somebody ELSE'S invention using it to get wealthy. case in point, the Epi Pen. all it is, is an overdose of epinephrine loaded into a military developed auto injector. - neither of which was invented by the people jacking up the price of the epi pen. and as for the "but doctors won't work that cheap" argument - maybe we ought to look into making medical school affordable, and yes, tort reform; and stop making the medical profession one that you have to start rich to get into. you might find that there are hundreds of people who would be interested in helping their fellow people get healthy, if they could afford to get into the profession.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 8, 2017 14:58:51 GMT
It's not a case of the National Health Service and nothing else here, you can also get private treatments, if you need them and can afford them.
Last year my Mum needed a Knee replacement operation, she could have waited for the NHS operation but as she had the money in the bank paid for it privately.
You can get any treatments like Chemotherapy or Radiotherapy privately if you have the funds to pay for them yourself just as in America, it just that the NHS is there to provide a reasonable level of service to everybody else who cannot.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 8, 2017 15:07:16 GMT
The amount that has to be paid by US citizens is inflated greatly by how much you are charged for even simple procedures, I gave heard an Australian Doctor describe how he was working on secondment to a US hospital and test that he knows cost around 100A$ to perform where billed in the US hospital at 1000$ dollars to the patient.
This means that the lower spending in some countries such as Canada might actually stretch far further than the simple comparison to the US one initially makes it seem.
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2017 16:35:40 GMT
The amount that has to be paid by US citizens is inflated greatly by how much you are charged for even simple procedures, I gave heard an Australian Doctor describe how he was working on secondment to a US hospital and test that he knows cost around 100A$ to perform where billed in the US hospital at 1000$ dollars to the patient. This means that the lower spending in some countries such as Canada might actually stretch far further than the simple comparison to the US one initially makes it seem. I'm sure if one did a study, they would establish that Americans pass up a lot of healthcare that people in other countries take advantage of for just that reason.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 9, 2017 13:40:55 GMT
I would be perfectly happy for anyone who invents a miracle cure to be bought out at a rate that not only compensates them for their time and expense of inventing it, but also allows them to live a comfortable life afterwards. my own objection is to the idea that you have a reverse lottery, and the poor dumb bastidge who NEEDS the miracle cure is selected to be the one who pays the inventor off. I am also in objection to a person who piggybacks on somebody ELSE'S invention using it to get wealthy. case in point, the Epi Pen. all it is, is an overdose of epinephrine loaded into a military developed auto injector. - neither of which was invented by the people jacking up the price of the epi pen. and as for the "but doctors won't work that cheap" argument - maybe we ought to look into making medical school affordable, and yes, tort reform; and stop making the medical profession one that you have to start rich to get into. you might find that there are hundreds of people who would be interested in helping their fellow people get healthy, if they could afford to get into the profession. Stop, hesitate and glisten, Ice is back with my brand new invention Something grabs a hold of me tightly Then I throw that harpoon daily and nightly Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know Turn off the lights and I'll glow To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle And into that vein I will blow my invention, An Epi pen the size of Manhatten This things a sky-scraper It may blow your mind, But as for the old ones?.. Them you just cant find. They call it progress, Things got to be bigger?. Better and badder and For what reason I cant figure But the old way was better I could do that with one hand. Now my Epi pen is three times the size. And delivers the same drug Same dose Same damn time I getting loose with the rhyme. But the thing is, the "NEW IMPROVED" Epi pen has grown three times the size, three times the cost, it does the same thing, its claimed to be "safer"?.. How?... you are stabbing yourself with a hypodermic needle and injecting drugs into yourself. And its HOW MUCH a shot?.. Erm, why is the "Pen", a single use disposable, worth MORE than the bloody drug its injecting?. Now tell me someone ant "Benefiting" financially for you spending all that extra on the needles?. No seriously, a friend I have who has diabetes, showed me his "New" pens, and you sedate baby elephants with smaller lances?. OF COURSE they cost more... price gouging anyone?.
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Post by the light works on Sept 9, 2017 13:52:54 GMT
I would be perfectly happy for anyone who invents a miracle cure to be bought out at a rate that not only compensates them for their time and expense of inventing it, but also allows them to live a comfortable life afterwards. my own objection is to the idea that you have a reverse lottery, and the poor dumb bastidge who NEEDS the miracle cure is selected to be the one who pays the inventor off. I am also in objection to a person who piggybacks on somebody ELSE'S invention using it to get wealthy. case in point, the Epi Pen. all it is, is an overdose of epinephrine loaded into a military developed auto injector. - neither of which was invented by the people jacking up the price of the epi pen. and as for the "but doctors won't work that cheap" argument - maybe we ought to look into making medical school affordable, and yes, tort reform; and stop making the medical profession one that you have to start rich to get into. you might find that there are hundreds of people who would be interested in helping their fellow people get healthy, if they could afford to get into the profession. Stop, hesitate and glisten, Ice is back with my brand new invention Something grabs a hold of me tightly Then I throw that harpoon daily and nightly Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know Turn off the lights and I'll glow To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle And into that vein I will blow my invention, An Epi pen the size of Manhatten This things a sky-scraper It may blow your mind, But as for the old ones?.. Them you just cant find. They call it progress, Things got to be bigger?. Better and badder and For what reason I cant figure But the old way was better I could do that with one hand. Now my Epi pen is three times the size. And delivers the same drug Same dose Same damn time I getting loose with the rhyme. But the thing is, the "NEW IMPROVED" Epi pen has grown three times the size, three times the cost, it does the same thing, its claimed to be "safer"?.. How?... you are stabbing yourself with a hypodermic needle and injecting drugs into yourself. And its HOW MUCH a shot?.. Erm, why is the "Pen", a single use disposable, worth MORE than the bloody drug its injecting?. Now tell me someone ant "Benefiting" financially for you spending all that extra on the needles?. No seriously, a friend I have who has diabetes, showed me his "New" pens, and you sedate baby elephants with smaller lances?. OF COURSE they cost more... price gouging anyone?. as a poet, you make a great trucker.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 9, 2017 14:32:48 GMT
Thats why I do a lot of Trucking?.. "I should be on stage", yeah, I know, driving it.......
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 9, 2017 14:39:28 GMT
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Post by the light works on Sept 9, 2017 14:47:40 GMT
#5 is the biggest factor.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 9, 2017 15:57:10 GMT
The article mentions inhaleable insulin as an example, claiming patients did not take it up because they were used to injections and just were not used to inhalers. It failed to mention the coughs and throat irritation that many patients complained about leading them to give it up, it was not just a "oh I don't want to switch" but " I Have switched but the side affects of inhalation are worse than those of injection so I am going back to injections."
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Post by the light works on Sept 9, 2017 16:08:18 GMT
The article mentions inhaleable insulin as an example, claiming patients did not take it up because they were used to injections and just were not used to inhalers. It failed to mention the coughs and throat irritation that many patients complained about leading them to give it up, it was not just a "oh I don't want to switch" but " I Have switched but the side affects of inhalation are worse than those of injection so I am going back to injections." it did leave me wondering if combining epi with a bronchodilator in an inhaler might be a good therapy. - of course, I don't have the knowledge to take it any further than that.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 9, 2017 18:01:36 GMT
I have never tried it myself, but have read the reports the Diabetes UK provide for its members.
But it might works as an Epi pen alternative, a once off inhaleable dose in an emergency is different to taking insulin every day.
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2017 0:43:55 GMT
I have never tried it myself, but have read the reports the Diabetes UK provide for its members. But it might works as an Epi pen alternative, a once off inhaleable dose in an emergency is different to taking insulin every day. making it so it works kind of like a nebulizer might be good idea. maybe a quick burst to get the ball rolling and then a slow delivery so as you recover breathing ability, you get the bronchodilator deeper in like with albuterol.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 10, 2017 13:16:41 GMT
There is still the answer than no one has investigated. The fact that why would "ANYONE" be stupid enough to create a cheaper mass produced easy option when the more expensive alternative is more "Profit" per use.
Its not that they cant, they can, but doing so, would cut their income drastically. The ferrengi have got bugger all on these twits.
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2017 14:35:24 GMT
There is still the answer than no one has investigated. The fact that why would "ANYONE" be stupid enough to create a cheaper mass produced easy option when the more expensive alternative is more "Profit" per use. Its not that they cant, they can, but doing so, would cut their income drastically. The ferrengi have got bugger all on these twits. it is the knowledge these are bought when needed, and making them cheaper would probably not increase sales. making them more convenient and with a longer shelf life would definitely decrease sales.
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 11, 2017 6:46:23 GMT
There is still the answer than no one has investigated. The fact that why would "ANYONE" be stupid enough to create a cheaper mass produced easy option when the more expensive alternative is more "Profit" per use. Its not that they cant, they can, but doing so, would cut their income drastically. The ferrengi have got bugger all on these twits. it is the knowledge these are bought when needed, and making them cheaper would probably not increase sales. making them more convenient and with a longer shelf life would definitely decrease sales. I had gone general with more everyday objects not just the Epi-pen. My Diabetic friend need "daily" doses of "something" to help with the insulin. I also have a kid with a Chrones problem in the family who needs a weekly shot of "Something" to keep it under control. Both of them use something the size of a pygmy spear?.. why not with the daily disposables?..
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Post by the light works on Sept 11, 2017 14:02:11 GMT
it is the knowledge these are bought when needed, and making them cheaper would probably not increase sales. making them more convenient and with a longer shelf life would definitely decrease sales. I had gone general with more everyday objects not just the Epi-pen. My Diabetic friend need "daily" doses of "something" to help with the insulin. I also have a kid with a Chrones problem in the family who needs a weekly shot of "Something" to keep it under control. Both of them use something the size of a pygmy spear?.. why not with the daily disposables?.. I think the "injection pen" is more idiot resistant. Mrs TLW used disposables and a vial for insulin. now that she is on trulicity, that uses the "pen"
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 28, 2018 8:09:59 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43933056You may or may not have been aware of this over the last few weeks, its another degenerately ill child with no hope of cure that has been centre of a battle with the medical experts and parents over who has the right to say we cant help him any further. The particular sides of this storey have no interest to me just yet. The protesters have got me rilled up... Alder Hey hospital is a Children's hospital built away from any disturbances so that desperately ill kids could get some peace and quiet and be allowed to get better. In the past few weeks, it has seen pitched battles between chanting protesters and police/security over the right to withdraw life support. I now ask all those protesters if they are proud of themselves for bringing the noise and disturbance to the doors of a CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL that has disturbed greatly the children and the parents of other life threatening cases within?. Do you now believe forcing your way in to confront the staff inside was a wizen idea?. Do you think chanting with LOUD HAILERS making it plain you wanted to gain the attention of the staff inside was a good plan when the chanting and loud-hailers also disturb the children who were probably wondering if the world was about to end and were they safe from the "Mob"? Do you believe blockading the roadway preventing the parents of other seriously ill children from getting to see their own kids was a good plan?. Preventing staff from getting in, doctors and nurse4s who were not ever involved in the case, but had other patients to work with, preventing them getting in or out to work, was THAT a good plan?. Just how much anguish have you created for the people dealing with probably the worst period of their lives and the caring staff around them, just to bring attention to YOUR chosen case, which may be the last thing in the mind of a parent with an ill toddler?. Proud of yourselves are you?. As for Alfie, Rest in Peace, this is the worst thing any parent can go through, my deepest sympathy. At least the father saw sense, and how this was affecting other parents and children.
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Post by the light works on Apr 28, 2018 14:58:34 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43933056You may or may not have been aware of this over the last few weeks, its another degenerately ill child with no hope of cure that has been centre of a battle with the medical experts and parents over who has the right to say we cant help him any further. The particular sides of this storey have no interest to me just yet. The protesters have got me rilled up... Alder Hey hospital is a Children's hospital built away from any disturbances so that desperately ill kids could get some peace and quiet and be allowed to get better. In the past few weeks, it has seen pitched battles between chanting protesters and police/security over the right to withdraw life support. I now ask all those protesters if they are proud of themselves for bringing the noise and disturbance to the doors of a CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL that has disturbed greatly the children and the parents of other life threatening cases within?. Do you now believe forcing your way in to confront the staff inside was a wizen idea?. Do you think chanting with LOUD HAILERS making it plain you wanted to gain the attention of the staff inside was a good plan when the chanting and loud-hailers also disturb the children who were probably wondering if the world was about to end and were they safe from the "Mob"? Do you believe blockading the roadway preventing the parents of other seriously ill children from getting to see their own kids was a good plan?. Preventing staff from getting in, doctors and nurse4s who were not ever involved in the case, but had other patients to work with, preventing them getting in or out to work, was THAT a good plan?. Just how much anguish have you created for the people dealing with probably the worst period of their lives and the caring staff around them, just to bring attention to YOUR chosen case, which may be the last thing in the mind of a parent with an ill toddler?. Proud of yourselves are you?. As for Alfie, Rest in Peace, this is the worst thing any parent can go through, my deepest sympathy. At least the father saw sense, and how this was affecting other parents and children. There is a death denial cult that refuses to accept when a medical case is hopeless. they gained traction during the terry schiavo incident (in fact, her brother is one of the higher profile ringleaders.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_casebeyond children with incurable diseases, their other favorite target is brain death. they attack brain death with the simplistic attitude that as long as medical science can keep the heart beating, then no expense may be spared in trying to get the victim to recover. the saddest thing is that a large number of the high profile death deniers got where they are by not providing proper care to their children BEFORE the brain death. NSFW domain name(the hospital won the hearing, and Stinson was allowed to finish dying, while McMath is still undead in New Jersey at state taxpayers' expense, while the family drags out the court case in California and the series of spineless judges decline to demand they prove their claims. fortunately, there is also a community of more scientifically minded people. www.thaddeuspope.com/medicalfutility/futilityblog.htmladdendum: here is how your cited case is being presented in the US: www.lifenews.com/2018/04/26/alfie-evans-plight-is-not-unique-other-children-have-faced-the-same-ordeal-your-child-might-be-next/
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Post by the light works on Apr 28, 2018 15:17:53 GMT
I mentioned it before in a different thread, but since we HAVE this thread, I'll mention it, here:
according to studies, the US government has the highest per capita healthcare expense of any other nation.
to be more clear and specific: the US government pays more money for their citizens' healthcare, than any of the governments that pay their citizens' ENTIRE healthcare bills, per person, and this does NOT include the money that US citizens have to pay out of their OWN pockets over and above that.
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