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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2014 16:33:32 GMT
are you better at calculating cuts than you are at measuring? because if it is cut to your specification and still doesn't fit, then it is your problem. building it in place only takes a saw, a power screwdriver and a bucket of screws. start from the bigger end, and if you cut a stud too short, just use it closer to the short end. Problem is I'm better at measuring precisely (even by eye) than I am at making a precise cut. Don't get me wrong, I can follow a straight line, but I always end up slanting the saw just a little bit, no matter what I do. I'm not so worried about the straight line cuts, though. It's more making those cuts for the non 90 degree angle corners that would be so much easier for someone with a tablesaw to do precisely. The closest thing I've got to a power saw is a jigsaw, but I'm afraid that'll be too imprecise for this particular job and I don't want to spend something like $100 on a good circular saw, since I probably won't be needing it again any time soon. to quote one of our local plumbers, "We're not building pianos" but yes, if your only saw is a jigsaw, that makes it tougher. I'd be inclined to say to check resale stores for a used circular saw - and for occasional use, it doesn't have to be a high end model. but if the MDF is too tough for a knife cut, then you'll definitely want someone with a better saw to make those cuts.
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 7, 2014 17:35:44 GMT
Buy a good, quality handsaw, it will pay itself back practically within that first job.
around 25-30 euro's here, i guess it would be similar in dollars or other currency, personally i like bahco branded
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 7, 2014 17:36:40 GMT
and yes, curtains work nicely in this style situation.
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2014 17:44:35 GMT
Buy a good, quality handsaw, it will pay itself back practically within that first job. around 25-30 euro's here, i guess it would be similar in dollars or other currency, personally i like bahco branded bahco makes good durable saw blades.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 7, 2014 18:37:53 GMT
Buy a good, quality handsaw, it will pay itself back practically within that first job. around 25-30 euro's here, i guess it would be similar in dollars or other currency, personally i like bahco branded When you say "handsaw", what do you mean exactly?
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 7, 2014 19:09:24 GMT
This is mine, but anything similar in the same price-category
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 7, 2014 19:13:29 GMT
This is mine, but anything similar in the same price-category Oh, okay. I thought you meant an electric handsaw of some sort.
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 7, 2014 19:19:09 GMT
Once you work with a good handsaw, unlike the bargain bin ones, you'll stop bothering to set up the big equipment on such small indoor jobs.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 8, 2014 8:24:40 GMT
Making long cuts with a jigsaw, its always wise to install a "Fence"..... This can be any suitable straight edge that you install to one side of the intended cut by the measure of the distance from the blade to edge of bottom plate, then run the jigsaw along that edge. It is of course wise to clamp the fence down tightly at either end making sure the clamp doesnt foul the jigsaw.... And check the blade is straight every now and again.. in certain hard-woods I have known the jigsaw blade to bend with the grain.
Hand saws, Manual saws, always best to keep them well waxed. If you have the ability to get some, Beeswax is always better, but after that, candle wax is just as good.
I suppose I am lucky, I have one or two (Or three....) jigsaws, three circular saws, a large chop saw with stand, Chainsaw, alligator, and various other planers electric planers and the like to choose from, plus a couple of belt sanders block sanders orbital sanders and a nasty piece of kit known as a bar-steward rasp... Kind of like a cheese grater on steroids that will make deep indentations just looking at you the wrong way?....
But as always, ...
Measure Twice, Cut Once.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2014 7:50:12 GMT
Thanks for all your help this far guys.
I just have one more question I need answered before I feel confident enough to go buy my materials: Those pesky irregular corners (one is 90 degree plus and the other is 90 degree minus). How do I go about measuring them precisely? I have a few ideas myself that involve a bit of trigonometry and they'll probably work, but I'm just curious to hear if anyone else has a "quick fix" for getting accurate measurements for something like this.
Like SD says, I'd like to be able to measure twice and cut once on this, or it might turn really expensive, really fast.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 9, 2014 8:05:41 GMT
Make a template, or two, or whatever..... Cut from stiff cardboard.
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 9, 2014 8:30:32 GMT
In your case, i'd work from inside to out, make the center build first and finish the outer shelves by making templates.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2014 8:51:00 GMT
In your case, i'd work from inside to out, make the center build first and finish the outer shelves by making templates. I'm planning on installing the 4 vertical spacers/dividers/support boards (whatever you want to call them) first, but then I'm gonna have to put in the top shelf to make everything stable and work from there. That's why it's so important to me to get those measurements right, since that first shelf that needs to touch those corners is going in pretty fast. But yeah. Templates could work. Thanks guys Oh, and I like your idea about the fence for the jigsaw, SD. I think that would make my work a lot easier. With the width of the MDF boards I'm using, there's gonna be an excess of about 9" on each board. I'm planning to cut those into pieces and use them for supports along the walls and for some of the shelves. When I've made the first cut on the first board, I can use that excess 9" piece as a fence for the rest of my cutting and get around buying any new tools that way. All I'll need to invest in tool-wise is a set of new saw blades for the jig. Thanks for that idea
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Post by the light works on Oct 9, 2014 10:54:11 GMT
they make a tool specifically for setting angles to match reality. I think the common name is a bevel gauge. but you would be best simply setting the corners to 90 degrees and waste the half inch or inch of space it takes to do that - tapered shelves can be a royal pain to work with.
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Post by rick4070 on Oct 9, 2014 17:12:13 GMT
they make a tool specifically for setting angles to match reality. I think the common name is a bevel gauge. but you would be best simply setting the corners to 90 degrees and waste the half inch or inch of space it takes to do that - tapered shelves can be a royal pain to work with. I've been using a bevel gauge quite a bit lately on a remodel of our house, the walls are not square, nor plumb, I'm using decorative corner blocks on all inside and outside corners, on top of the flooring, so the base moldings along the floor need to be cut on various angles where they join up to the blocks, and I also used the gauge to determine the angle of the vaulted ceiling, in order to angle cut the tongue and groove vertical cedar boards that are going on a couple of the walls rather than drywall. BTW, Mine's an OLD Stanley that belonged to my grandfather. Good tools last a long time. Good advice to get a bevel guage, they come in really handy...
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2014 21:03:42 GMT
they make a tool specifically for setting angles to match reality. I think the common name is a bevel gauge. but you would be best simply setting the corners to 90 degrees and waste the half inch or inch of space it takes to do that - tapered shelves can be a royal pain to work with. The problem, as I've mentioned, is that I can't just go with 90 degrees and leave a gap, because on one end, that gap won't be just half an inch or an inch. The angle is so wide (about a 100 degrees) that it ends up being a 5 inch gap when you get out to those 19.5 inches from the back wall that I'm going for. At the other end, it's a narrower angle, something like 85 degrees, which will probably end up making a difference in the other direction of at least 2 inches. Thanks for the advice on the bevel gauge. My trigonometry, while pretty close, doesn't measure up completely with reality, so it might become necessary to invest in something like that. I think I'll go with the stencil idea first though. If I can get it to work, not only is it easier to just lay it down on the wood, draw a line around it and then cut along the line with the jigsaw, it's also a lot cheaper to get a couple pieces of cardboard than it is to buy a new tool. I'll definitely end up buying one if the stencils don't work though, so thanks
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Post by rick4070 on Oct 9, 2014 21:52:24 GMT
Another way is to "scribe" the angle.
Place a straight piece of cardboard, edge against the back wall, and level like your shelf would be, cut to your 19 inch width, the end should be cut somewhat close to the angle you need, but doesn't really have to be all that close.
You say the wall is out 5 inches in the 19 inch board width, so set a common compass, the kind that has a pencil in one half, and a point on the other, like we probably all used in school,set the compass so the pencil lead is on the cardboard, say an inch or so out onto the cardboard, just enough so the pencil will make a line on the whole 19 inch wide template, then holding the pointed part against the wall and the pencil on the cardboard (keeping the pencil at 90 deg. to the wall,) make a line on the cardboard.
Now you have a line that is true to the wall on your template, even if your wall has a slight curve to it.
Or, you could just take a piece of wood, like a 1x2 a few inches long, and drill a hole in it for your pencil, an inch or two from the end, put the other end of the board against the wall, and scribe away......
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2014 22:37:05 GMT
Another way is to "scribe" the angle. Place a straight piece of cardboard, edge against the back wall, and level like your shelf would be, cut to your 19 inch width, the end should be cut somewhat close to the angle you need, but doesn't really have to be all that close. You say the wall is out 5 inches in the 19 inch board width, so set a common compass, the kind that has a pencil in one half, and a point on the other, like we probably all used in school,set the compass so the pencil lead is on the cardboard, say an inch or so out onto the cardboard, just enough so the pencil will make a line on the whole 19 inch wide template, then holding the pointed part against the wall and the pencil on the cardboard (keeping the pencil at 90 deg. to the wall,) make a line on the cardboard. Now you have a line that is true to the wall on your template, even if your wall has a slight curve to it. Or, you could just take a piece of wood, like a 1x2 a few inches long, and drill a hole in it for your pencil, an inch or two from the end, put the other end of the board against the wall, and scribe away...... I'm sorry, but I didn't get that at all... It may be because we're talking in two different directions, which might be caused by me not explaining myself well enough. Just to make sure, I've drawn up another picture. Keep in mind that this is a rough template, just to give you an idea of the angles I'm working with: The black lines are the walls, the blue lines represent where I want the closet to be. The red lines are my problem corners. The 19,5" I'm talking about is the depth of the closet, so from the top black line to the bottom blue line is supposed to be those 19,5" (50cm, in case you were wondering what was up with the weird number). As you can see, the corner on the left is at a pretty steep angle, probably around 100 or maybe even 105 degrees. The corner on the right is at a shollower angle, probably around 85 degrees. Is this what you were envisioning when you wrote that part about the compass? If it was, I think you may need to explain that a little differently (if you want to), 'cause I just can't wrap my head around what you mean.
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Post by rick4070 on Oct 9, 2014 23:24:03 GMT
The scribing with a compass trick can be done either for a horizontal surface, or a vertical surface.
If you type: "Scribing with a compass" into a search, there are tutorials that explain it better than I can.
If you are facing the back wall of your closet, are you saying that the left wall tips out at the top 5 inches?
Meaning that the left most board that will be flat against the closet back wall will have a 5 inch gap at the top if the lower left corner of the board is touching the lower corner of the wall, and the right side of the board is plumb vertically?
If so, get the right side of your template plumb, and scribe with the compass vertically.
You said: "The angle is so wide (about a 100 degrees) that it ends up being a 5 inch gap when you get out to those 19.5 inches from the back wall."
I take that to mean that the shelves, top board, etc. are 19.5 inches wide, (or deep.) If you place the shelf or top board on a horizontal plane, flat, you are saying that the left back corner will touch the wall, but the front left corner will have a 5 inch gap, between it and the wall, correct?
If correct, place a rectangular piece of cardboard on a horizontal plane, flat, with one edge touching the back wall of the closet, you should have your 5" gap on the corner closest to you. Set your compass at 6", hold the point against the wall to your left, and scribe a line from the innermost corner of the wall out toward you. You should end up with a line when cut, will allow the board to fit against the back of the wall, and also against the left wall of the closet.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2014 23:40:21 GMT
The scribing with a compass trick can be done either for a horizontal surface, or a vertical surface. If you type: "Scribing with a compass" into a search, there are tutorials that explain it better than I can. I'll look into that tomorrow. Thanks for the tip If you are facing the back wall of your closet, are you saying that the left wall tips out at the top 5 inches? Meaning that the left most board that will be flat against the closet back wall will have a 5 inch gap at the top if the lower left corner of the board is touching the lower corner of the wall, and the right side of the board is plumb vertically? If so, get the right side of your template plumb, and scribe with the compass vertically. No, in my drawing, you're looking down at the closet from the ceiling. Should have been clearer on that. What this means is that if I made a shelf that had only 90 degree angles and a depth of 19,5", then from the front left corner of that shelf and to the wall to the left of it there would be a 5" gap. That's what I need to close. I want the shelf to be flush agains both the back wall and the side wall, which means cutting the shelf at an angle, so it's able to rest on horizontal supports screwed into both walls. Hope it all makes better sense now. It's 1:40 AM here now and I've been up since 6:00 AM, so that's probably why I'm not as clear as I could be
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