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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2014 0:53:39 GMT
rolling down the windows in a car - is it really the only way to get fresh air into the car? some people cannot seem to sit in a motor vehicle without rolling windows down. (and I'm not talking about Mrs TLW who turns the defog on maximum heat and then regulates the interior temperature by rolling down her window.) Clarification: is the air quality better in a car with the windows rolled down, or using the ventilation system to draw in air? I like that idea. Maybe they should try for the energy efficiency test of both ventilation, windows and AC. We all know the car uses more fuel when the AC is running, but how long would you have to run it compared to the regular ventilation/windows open to get the temperature you want and where does that leave you in terms of fuel usage? After all, open windows create drag, so which costs you more? Do the windows have to be open longer to get the desired temperature, effectively costing you more fuel than the AC, or is it the other way around? Which is the most efficient way of getting the temperature you want, both in terms of the time it takes and the energy spent? they've done windows vs a/c |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 27, 2014 10:24:51 GMT
I am having an Idea.
Conventional way of getting air in a car is to draw it in with a fan....
In a moving vehicle, of given speed, that can be varied by 10mph increments to test speed influence...
What is more efficient.
Using the engine power to run a fan, or, opening a small "flap" that draws air in... like an air scoop....
Would the performance loss opening the flap into an air-stream be higher than the performance loss from engine running a fan.
I suspect the open flap would be a better way... but it spoils the looks of a car....
Or does it?...
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2014 14:12:07 GMT
I am having an Idea. Conventional way of getting air in a car is to draw it in with a fan.... In a moving vehicle, of given speed, that can be varied by 10mph increments to test speed influence... What is more efficient. Using the engine power to run a fan, or, opening a small "flap" that draws air in... like an air scoop.... Would the performance loss opening the flap into an air-stream be higher than the performance loss from engine running a fan. I suspect the open flap would be a better way... but it spoils the looks of a car.... Or does it?... I suspect the difference is too small to measure - and the small flap is there in every car I have driven - though very few place the flap on the visible part - most have an inlet in a high pressure area. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2014 19:34:46 GMT
I like that idea. Maybe they should try for the energy efficiency test of both ventilation, windows and AC. We all know the car uses more fuel when the AC is running, but how long would you have to run it compared to the regular ventilation/windows open to get the temperature you want and where does that leave you in terms of fuel usage? After all, open windows create drag, so which costs you more? Do the windows have to be open longer to get the desired temperature, effectively costing you more fuel than the AC, or is it the other way around? Which is the most efficient way of getting the temperature you want, both in terms of the time it takes and the energy spent? they've done windows vs a/c I was not aware of that. What was tested, specifically? |
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 27, 2014 21:08:12 GMT
They tested for fuel consumption a/cvs windows, air con uses extra fuel but open windows increase drag and therefore increase it as well.
They did it twice, a low speeds the windows down is better as the drag is less, at high speeds the drag is more so air con is more fuel efficient. Their test found the break point was around 50mph IIRC, but that is only for one set of temperature conditions, it might vary in different places.
There are YouTube clips of one of the tests.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2014 22:40:27 GMT
Got it. Thanks  |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 7, 2014 8:20:18 GMT
I have been running a test.
There is a conventional grill between my Window and Bonnet.
This is the air intake for fresh air into the vehicle?...
Well, its just a grill.
I have put an intake shaped box, low level, its not a huge shoe-box type thing, just a small long black plastic "chute" that draws air into the car, its clipped onto the grille, it can easily be removed.
So far, when the air toggles are set to outside air and dash vents, I am getting a good blast of air...
Of course, only when the vehicle is moving.
Yes it is appreciatively better than just running vents open and no fan.
So far I have not noticed any deterioration in MPG?....
This will take a longer test to make sure, I know the average MPG of my vehicle already, I will do this for a couple of tanks to see if the average MPG has made remarkable difference?....
I have set to wondering if I can make a system to measure air speed to auto toggle the fan on if I drop below a certain flow....
But that is future investigations.
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Post by the light works on Sept 7, 2014 14:47:25 GMT
I have been running a test. There is a conventional grill between my Window and Bonnet. This is the air intake for fresh air into the vehicle?... Well, its just a grill. I have put an intake shaped box, low level, its not a huge shoe-box type thing, just a small long black plastic "chute" that draws air into the car, its clipped onto the grille, it can easily be removed. So far, when the air toggles are set to outside air and dash vents, I am getting a good blast of air... Of course, only when the vehicle is moving. Yes it is appreciatively better than just running vents open and no fan. So far I have not noticed any deterioration in MPG?.... This will take a longer test to make sure, I know the average MPG of my vehicle already, I will do this for a couple of tanks to see if the average MPG has made remarkable difference?.... I have set to wondering if I can make a system to measure air speed to auto toggle the fan on if I drop below a certain flow.... But that is future investigations. on older cars there was an inside lever to open and close that inlet "chute" - and that was all the climate control there was unless you count the hot air coming in through the holes in the firewall. Attachment Deletedif you look closely, you can see I have it just slightly open in this picture - at the back of the hood. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 8, 2014 8:06:44 GMT
That almost exactly what I am trying to "Re-Invent"......
So which is better, Grill and Fan or inlet "Chute".....
I am suspecting the grille and fan are just "Toys", as everyone wants new buttons to push on the dash.
More buttons, mistakenly, is seen as a better car?....
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Post by the light works on Sept 8, 2014 14:10:57 GMT
That almost exactly what I am trying to "Re-Invent"...... So which is better, Grill and Fan or inlet "Chute"..... I am suspecting the grille and fan are just "Toys", as everyone wants new buttons to push on the dash. More buttons, mistakenly, is seen as a better car?.... when the fan was added, it was an improvement over the chute - because it made more consistent airflow. today, with mass airflow sensors, a hybrid system could probably work better than either individual system. - but the question is whether you are building a high tech solution to a low tech problem. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 9, 2014 11:52:47 GMT
If you are going to have a fan for low vehicle speed use to get air in, I cant see why it cant detect outside air pressure, and back off when its not needed?....
Its just adding some kind of Pito tube I suppose, ?..,
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Post by the light works on Sept 9, 2014 13:56:33 GMT
If you are going to have a fan for low vehicle speed use to get air in, I cant see why it cant detect outside air pressure, and back off when its not needed?.... Its just adding some kind of Pito tube I suppose, ?.., you would just use whatever the fuel injection system uses for an airflow sensor. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 10, 2014 6:38:04 GMT
If you are going to have a fan for low vehicle speed use to get air in, I cant see why it cant detect outside air pressure, and back off when its not needed?.... Its just adding some kind of Pito tube I suppose, ?.., you would just use whatever the fuel injection system uses for an airflow sensor. See?.. I knew someone would have invented it already. |
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Post by the light works on Sept 10, 2014 14:27:20 GMT
and the hardware that concerns itself with calculating what goes with the airflow sensor from the fuel injectors is a computer the size of my laptop, whereas the controller for my cab air blower is a printed circuit card about the size of a baseball card. (big enough for a few resistors)
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 11, 2014 8:59:23 GMT
Simple small spring holding a contact closed with a paddle on it that is hit by air being forced through the vent.
The car moves, air pressure increases, "Airflow sensor" opens the circuit, fan goes off....
You could separate part of the vent away from the Fan's "Draw" area to prevent the fan interfering with the "Airflow sensor"?...
I keeps it simples, 'cos I is a bear with a small brain?....
I can work that switch with exactly zero printed circuits.
I think maybe some people over complicate the ideas.
If needed, put a small 30 second to 60 second overrun timer in the mix to prevent cycling in stop-start traffic.
Nothing is more annoying that a fan thats on/off/on/off/on/off every second or two?...
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Post by the light works on Sept 11, 2014 14:34:04 GMT
Simple small spring holding a contact closed with a paddle on it that is hit by air being forced through the vent. The car moves, air pressure increases, "Airflow sensor" opens the circuit, fan goes off.... You could separate part of the vent away from the Fan's "Draw" area to prevent the fan interfering with the "Airflow sensor"?... I keeps it simples, 'cos I is a bear with a small brain?.... I can work that switch with exactly zero printed circuits. I think maybe some people over complicate the ideas. If needed, put a small 30 second to 60 second overrun timer in the mix to prevent cycling in stop-start traffic. Nothing is more annoying that a fan thats on/off/on/off/on/off every second or two?... or you can just have a knob on the dashboard that the driver turns if he wants more or less airflow. |
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Post by the light works on Sept 16, 2014 17:02:31 GMT
turn signals: best not to signal far enough ahead of your turn as to confuse other drivers as to where you are turning. signaling more than a block ahead of your turn is a good way to trick another driver into pulling out in front of you. - at which the driver's defense is "they were turning - I saw them put their turn signal on."
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 17, 2014 9:28:23 GMT
Do not indicate until you have got past any turning you may take, yes, thats good advice, unless those "Possible" turnings are driveways and the like....
If you are taking the third on the left, do not indicate until you are past the second.
It confuses other drivers.
I also ask, if you are turning, you should indicate before you start to brake and slow down, and AT LEAST three cycles or flashes of your indicators ahead of you starting to move over or change lanes.
Mirrors, Indicate, mirrors, manoeuvre, and use mirrors again as much as you can whilst making that turn....
Look EVERYWHERE kind of thing... you never know....
If you have "Multiple choice" of turnings, as in more than one in very close proximity, approach "Cautiously", give good warning, and expect elephants.
Slowly?... of course.
If its a tight turn, tricky manoeuvre, if you are not sure, take your time.
Sod the other impatient drivers, if you need time to make the turn, take it.
They can wait.
They will chew steering wheels and thump dashboards, they are impatient, thats their problem, you take as much time as you need.
I have closed roads to make turns.... do I care?... do I hell.
If they can do a better job, please fill in an application form, we need as many sensible drivers as we can get, and perhaps when they know as much as I do (Or even more for the super-intelligent) they will know why I am taking so long....
I may make it look easy, but putting a 13ft high 60ft long 12 ft wide trailer in a gap with perhaps six inches clearance either side?.. its actually not that easy.
Especially when you have an audience shouting "Helpful" remarks like "Your making me late".
I parked a trailer in a road to unload one time, it did close the road, warning signs of the road closure had been put up 24hr ahead of time to get permission for the road closure.
Just as I finish parking, Lady approaches in small car "I need to get down that road..."
So what?....
Its VITALLY important she gets to wherever she wants....
I point to the warning messages informing that the road is closed.
But it VERY important, she wont be there that long, if I can just....
No Lady, stop right there, we have followed the letter of the law to get this road closed, its now closed, please stop delaying me, we want to get the road open as soon as possible, you are not helping....
"But..."
See that policeman?.. go talk to him.
She did.
The police officer afterwards had a smile... "Some people just dont understand the word **No** do they?..."
Expect Elephants... the number of people who have asked me how long I am going to be because they want the parking space?.. If I had a quid for all of them, I would be fully retired now.
Its a 60ft wagon, you can see its being unloaded, and no, I am not going to stop just for you.
"Wagons should be banned from City Centres"
Good luck with that.
The next time you ask for something and they tell you they are out of stock, can I remind you of your imposed ban on deliveries?... I didnt think so.
Look, its like this, if you are annoying a truck driver, your not "Probably" doing it wrong, you ARE doing it wrong...
The right way?.. go somewhere else.
Its not easy being the hate figure of everyone who want their shopping but dont want to be held up by it being delivered, its not easy getting parked in a vehicle six times the size of their likkle noddy car, I am here, I got here first, now just go and wait, or go elsewhere, the longer you argue, the longer I will be here.
And yes.
I HAVE heard it all before.
I dont think you can come up with one single excuse I havnt heard at least twice...
Including the one about your [wife] being in hospital and you havnt got that long.....
My kid is on life support, I am trying to earn enough to pay his medical bills?.....
Both are equally believable.
"I have a permit to park here"
So what?
I once got booked for blocking a loading pay.
Yes, a parking ticket for unloading on an unloading bay, whilst I was actually unloading on that parking bay, in the actual wagon that loading bay was designed to be there for....
Strange, some people have no sense of humour, the "Warden" couldn't understand why half a dozen people were laughing very loudly whist we stood back and watched him work.
"You really expect that one to get paid?..."
He did....
But the fella in the control office he worked for didnt, and promised he would have a word with the warden responsible.
Last line... The car I was behind that got me blowing my horn at you yesterday?...
I want being a twit, you indicated right, and went to turn down a road with "No Entry, One Way" signs all over it, you went down it the wrong way.
My Horn was a "WAKE UP" call, perhaps you didnt see the signs?...
I do hope the guy who was coming the other way understood your stupidity... I saw you both stop... I had driven away before anything else happened...
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Post by the light works on Sept 17, 2014 14:54:34 GMT
this is bordering on the how stupid thread - but we had a windstorm, many years ago. the best descriptor of the storm was:
"we pulled up to a tree, and cut it out of the road. just as we got done, another tree fell behind the truck. we turned around, cut enough to get through and hightailed it out of there."
this was from the ODOT crew who had closed the road.
I was walking along the line of cars backing up to go through, and telling them the road had been closed because the trees were falling faster than the crew could clear them, and one driver said "but I have to get through to go shopping - why are they closing the road?"
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 18, 2014 8:40:43 GMT
"Dont inconvenience me"
People that selfish are doing it wrong.
Yes they are cross threading themselves with stupid, but mostly, selfish doing it wrong.
What are they doing wrong?...
Life.
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