|
|
Post by silverdragon on Oct 27, 2014 12:01:39 GMT
Ok, so, you did it with Duck tape, but....
Can you lift a car off the ground with Velcro. (Maths and physics say yes you can?...)
I suggest they start with a compact car......
And yes, I know, if you can get enough Velcro you could probably lift a mountain.
So how about upscaling this to lift a TRUCK... and I mean a semi-tractor unit thing.....
These people think you can.....
Did they lighten the thing?... I dunno.....
And as they used a pipe through the vehicle, they didnt exactly use the velcro as a cradle did they?....
Side myth, there is no such thing as Velcro....
This has all got to do with "Normalising" the word Velcro to mean anything hook-and-loop-fastening-tape in the way that Hover is no longer a registered trade mark its something we all use to name a vacuum cleaner?....
But the official name of Velcro is Hook-And-Loop tape or something like that, Velcro is the name of the company....
Go figure....
Back to getting that car off the ground...
I see Adam being dangled from a board held on with a Velcro "suit" as a proof of concept.... he did that with Duck Tape after all.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Oct 27, 2014 18:14:10 GMT
people used to make a game of sticking themselves to a wall in a velcro suit.
so yes, test velcro to failure. the challenge will be bonding it to the test vehicles, I think. then you must make a lifting device that will not peel the velcro, so you maximize its grip.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Oct 27, 2014 21:01:36 GMT
And hence trademarked - they still hold the patent as well. That said I can't see there being major problems using 'Velcro' as it isn't usually considered a brand name in general use (although it is a brand), this type of testing isn't 'negative' (as in could be seen as harming the brand) and it might be worth it if in return the company is willing to provide them with the Velcro they need (which is a lot, and probably not something they could easily buy as large mats).
I like this idea, although I can see one obvious question/problem; How do you attach the Velcro to the car? You'd presumably be thinking of a mat of Velcro on the roof of the car, so how do you secure that mat so it doesn't rip off under the weight? The corresponding pad could be glued and stapled to a thick wooden board. But this might not be practical on the car, as the glue would be sticking to the paint rather than the metal. Stapling *might* be an option of course, if the car is from or going to a scrap yard. But a somewhat less damaging system would probably be more desirable as it would always give them the option of casting the net a little wider when looking for vehicles - as well as leaving said vehicle in a condition where it could be sold off for more than just scrap value.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Oct 28, 2014 8:29:31 GMT
Perhaps long strips of velcro of the double sides type, hooks on one side lops on the other, suspend the car using them as straps and self adhering by a full half turn extra length.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 5, 2014 13:11:55 GMT
Perhaps long strips of velcro of the double sides type, hooks on one side lops on the other, suspend the car using them as straps and self adhering by a full half turn extra length. Here's a thought: When using Velcro to lift a large weight, is it more advantageous to keep both sides the same (all the hooks up on one structure, all the loops on the other)? Or, alternate the orientation on each side (both structures have Velcro attached hook-loop-hook-loop...)? |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 5, 2014 16:32:06 GMT
Perhaps long strips of velcro of the double sides type, hooks on one side lops on the other, suspend the car using them as straps and self adhering by a full half turn extra length. Here's a thought: When using Velcro to lift a large weight, is it more advantageous to keep both sides the same (all the hooks up on one structure, all the loops on the other)? Or, alternate the orientation on each side (both structures have Velcro attached hook-loop-hook-loop...)? I would think it SHOULD make no difference - but it leaves me wondering if velcro is directional. I.E. one orientation has more grip than another. (I would think this would be for angled pull and shear, rather than straight pull - the only reason I can think of it being directional on a straight pull would be feng shui) |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 5, 2014 16:39:09 GMT
What would happen if you tried to lift something angular, such as a doghouse with an A-frame roof?
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 5, 2014 17:02:36 GMT
What would happen if you tried to lift something angular, such as a doghouse with an A-frame roof? assuming you put the velcro on the roof and lifted straight up, it would be relevant to my question of directionality. - not only in whether it would be better with hooks upp or down but whether rotating the hooks 90 or 180 degrees would make a difference. |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 5, 2014 19:46:04 GMT
What would happen if you tried to lift something angular, such as a doghouse with an A-frame roof? assuming you put the velcro on the roof and lifted straight up, it would be relevant to my question of directionality. - not only in whether it would be better with hooks upp or down but whether rotating the hooks 90 or 180 degrees would make a difference. What if the Velcro is oriented at a 45 degree angle in relation to the force applied? |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 6, 2014 1:35:02 GMT
assuming you put the velcro on the roof and lifted straight up, it would be relevant to my question of directionality. - not only in whether it would be better with hooks upp or down but whether rotating the hooks 90 or 180 degrees would make a difference. What if the Velcro is oriented at a 45 degree angle in relation to the force applied? you mean the tape rotated 45 degrees on the slope of the roof, or just the pull being at 45 degrees to the plane of the surface? to illustrate what I am saying - apply the velcro in a big patch on a surface. apply your matching piece to it. now pull at your 45 degrees to the surface. does it matter what compass point the pull is towards, or are the hooks essentially omnidirectional? |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 6, 2014 13:45:18 GMT
What if the Velcro is oriented at a 45 degree angle in relation to the force applied? you mean the tape rotated 45 degrees on the slope of the roof, or just the pull being at 45 degrees to the plane of the surface? to illustrate what I am saying - apply the velcro in a big patch on a surface. apply your matching piece to it. now pull at your 45 degrees to the surface. does it matter what compass point the pull is towards, or are the hooks essentially omnidirectional? My thought could be used with two objects that are flat to each other. Picture two pieces of plywood, one lying flat on the ground, the other being lifted by a crane (pulley, etc). The board on the ground has the Velcro attached going straight from side to side. The board being suspended has the Velcro attached on a diagonal (corner to corner) at roughly 45deg to the other piece's Velcro. Would this provide more resilience than if the Velcro is attached strictly from side-to-side on both pieces? So, the Velcro shift would be applied relative to a 2D plane, not a 3D plane. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 6, 2014 15:21:21 GMT
you mean the tape rotated 45 degrees on the slope of the roof, or just the pull being at 45 degrees to the plane of the surface? to illustrate what I am saying - apply the velcro in a big patch on a surface. apply your matching piece to it. now pull at your 45 degrees to the surface. does it matter what compass point the pull is towards, or are the hooks essentially omnidirectional? My thought could be used with two objects that are flat to each other. Picture two pieces of plywood, one lying flat on the ground, the other being lifted by a crane (pulley, etc). The board on the ground has the Velcro attached going straight from side to side. The board being suspended has the Velcro attached on a diagonal (corner to corner) at roughly 45deg to the other piece's Velcro. Would this provide more resilience than if the Velcro is attached strictly from side-to-side on both pieces? So, the Velcro shift would be applied relative to a 2D plane, not a 3D plane. so now we have three options for testing orientation. 1: angle of pull relative to "flat" 2: orientation of hook side relative to angle of pull. 3: orientation of loop side relative to angle of hook side. |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 6, 2014 15:37:55 GMT
As with the previous Duct Tape Specials, I could see Adam & Jamie testing the holding force & most effective way to orient the Velcro strips leading up to lifting a car with Velcro.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 6, 2014 15:59:20 GMT
As with the previous Duct Tape Specials, I could see Adam & Jamie testing the holding force & most effective way to orient the Velcro strips leading up to lifting a car with Velcro. definitely. |
|
|
|
Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 6, 2014 16:27:42 GMT
I'd compare the way the video tests the velcro to the methods used by A&J for testing the strength of interleaved phone books. The biggest flaw is that its not singular strands, its overlapped loops.
A better method to really test the strength of velcro would covering the with strips of velcro and covering some sort of platform to be hoisted by crane with the other side of the velcro. Also, should the integrity of various widths of velcro be considered? (i.e., 1/2" wide strips vs 1" wide strips)
|
|
|
|
Post by WhutScreenName on Nov 6, 2014 17:27:59 GMT
How do you peal away velcro? You start from an edge... I would think that having something pull at an angle is going to make it more likely to fail than pulling straight up. But the big 'problem' as mentioned above, is how to adhere it to the car. Even if the velcro could hold the weight, would the glue used to hold it to the car be able to take the weight?
I think the only way to do this properly, would be to wrap the top of the car with the loop, all the way around the inside and the outside. Then do the same with whatever is going to lift, but use the hook. Mash the two together, and lift. The test isn't if the glue will hold, or the 'fabric' that the hook and loop are attached to, but rather if that hook and loop system will be strong enough to lift the car.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 6, 2014 21:57:15 GMT
Maybe a straightforward test with the velcro glued to the roof, but with a couple of metal bars with cables attached through the roof to catch the car if the velcro doesn't hold. My thinking is that this test would allow them to see how and where the velcro fails - if it is the glue or the velcro itself - without risking destroying the car entirely. Even if they are using something from the scrap yard they might want to avoid damaging it straight off, as this would allow them to reuse the car for subsequent testing if the problem is something they think they can fix on site.
I can see this having potential, with small scale testing to show how strong the bond is and using that data to estimate how large a pad would be needed. (Again, not destroying the test car right off would allow them to test by simply covering the roof and then to use those earlier tests to replace that pad with something they calculate is large enough to handle the weight).
Maybe expand this to seeing if velcro would be strong enough to tow a car? Or how about getting two trucks and covering the rear doors with velcro to see if it would be strong enough for one of the trucks to tow the other backwards? (This could be done by adding a large sheet of plywood over the doors to allow the pads to touch without having to worry about the rear bumpers or door handles - this might be easier than trying to make the rear of both trucks flat enough that all of the pads can attach to each other.)
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 7, 2014 0:52:25 GMT
velcro has shear strength, otherwise it couldn't be used for shoes and such. flat surface to flat surface could be the optimal mating system, but it could be that a male and female shaped surface would be more secure. they would want to do this in the preliminary testing, I think.
and it may be true that having the velcro come loose from the surface might happen before the velcro pulled apart.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Nov 16, 2014 13:42:46 GMT
I was originally thinking of using the Velcro as "straps" underneath the car?...
I am wondering how strong is paint.....
If you glue to a painted surface, how long will the glue hold, and then how long before it just peels the paint off?...
Or how long before you just rip the roof straight off anyway.
As in would you try this with a convertible........
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 16, 2014 14:25:10 GMT
The problem with using velcro as 'straps', or tying it around say a metal pole, is that you are not going to be testing the strength of the velcro bond. Rather you would be testing the strength of the material the velco is made from.
It might be possible to overcome the potential problems of glue ripping the paint off the top of a car by having the velco glued or secured to a board and then clamped at the edges to the car roof, or have cables/chains passing through the inside of the vehicle. This would also bypass the need mess around trying to get both sides of the velcro flat enough that their entire surfaces are in contact.
Such a rig would allow them to concentrate on simply making 'generic' velcro boards over a day or two, then simply load them into the back of a truck to take to the test area. This would simplify logistics and time constraints, as they wouldn't have to mess around either by trying to get the vehicles into the shop to be fitted. Or having to try and fine-tune the rig on location. (Which wastes time). I'm actually thinking that this would be the most practical way to test this; cheap, simple and faster than the alternatives. Glue, for example, would have to be left to set and have to be applied to the entire roof of the car evenly. It would also mean that they didn't have to worry too much about the shape of the vehicle's roof or if it had a sunroof or not. That would probably lower costs futher since they wouldn't have to worry about particular models being unsuitable, and could just use whatever is available.
|
|
