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Post by silverdragon on Nov 17, 2014 10:48:28 GMT
The ring road is always faster thats why it was built.
You have two points close to a ring road, point A and B.
So what is quicker, a longer drive round the ring road or a cut across town.
Theory...
The cross town traffic was horrendous, and it was decided that they needed a ring road.
That ring road has now eased cross town traffic, because "Everyone knows" that the ring road is faster, and they all use it.
Therefore, as well as it now being faster than before the ring road was built, cross town traffic is now faster than the ring road , because everyone is now using the ring road.
This may be time of day dependant...
It may be that cross town on non rush-hour traffic is a hell of a lot quicker than driving all the way around the ring road.
It may be that the ring road is quicker in rush hour traffic, but only in rush hour traffic.
I may be completely wrong.
But the myth is the ring road is faster at all times........
My own unique knowledge of certain roads knows where and when to not go the way everyone else is going...
But I do get it wrong on occasions.
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Post by mrfatso on Nov 17, 2014 14:24:41 GMT
I think you are right sometimes it is easier to use the cross town roads rather than the ring road, and with local knowledge it is sometimes quicker to go your way than what signage might tell you as well. I know that in this town they send you a certain way to get to the town centre by the road signs, but it is faster to go a way that is not signed except at the times when the Airport and Van making plants are changing shifts.
But speed of traffic flow is not the only consideration used when planners decide on ring roads and bypasses, sometimes they are built in order to improve the life of people living in the area that they serve. That is particularly true here in the UK where you have older towns and cities built on an existing medieval plan, sometimes with streets meant for a horse and cart now used by and 18 wheeler.
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 17, 2014 14:26:33 GMT
Always faster?. No. Sometimes faster, yes. Strictly depends on time of day and traffic patterns. Like you say, knowledge and experience is your best guide. Real time Traffic apps on cell phones and GPS are now also a big help.
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Post by the light works on Nov 17, 2014 15:40:42 GMT
and sometimes the ring road is inherently slower. I once went to look at a travel trailer (caravan) in Portland and was sent around by two freeways - 5 blocks to the onramp, 20 blocks on the freeway and 5 blocks from the offramp to the location - only to find that the distance between where I called from and where I had been directed to was 10 blocks. in that same time frame, my brother's common joke was that nobody in Portland could go anywhere without driving on at least two freeways.
it was kind of the same story in Los Angeles - the freeway would be gridlocked, and the surface street next to it would be absolutely empty - except for people waiting in line to get onto the freeway.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 18, 2014 9:04:18 GMT
So basically what we are seeing here is the local council signage that says anything like "Express way" or "Ring Road", and bolster that by suggesting its the fastest way from one point to another, are basically lying, 'cos local knowledge can show that "Only at certain times" needs to be added as a sub-text to the signage?....
It is as I thought.
I wont say where, but, some place I go to has LOTS of signage that points in the wrong direction that tries to "guide" traffic to the ring roads and Motorways to clear the town centre.
My argument is that town centres historically grew because of passing trade.
If that trade is now guided out of the town centre, well, where is the trade?...
Even worse, the out of town shopping centres.
Are they not direct competition to the "local" shops, and should they not be seen as unfair competition of the parking is free but the local council charge for town centre parking....
Yes political.
But the point stands.
As the local councils are trying to get traffic away from the main roads through town and onto out-of-town ring roads and bypasses, all they are doing is pushing the problem elsewhere, and effectively killing off the town centres.....
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Post by the light works on Nov 18, 2014 15:37:27 GMT
So basically what we are seeing here is the local council signage that says anything like "Express way" or "Ring Road", and bolster that by suggesting its the fastest way from one point to another, are basically lying, 'cos local knowledge can show that "Only at certain times" needs to be added as a sub-text to the signage?.... It is as I thought. I wont say where, but, some place I go to has LOTS of signage that points in the wrong direction that tries to "guide" traffic to the ring roads and Motorways to clear the town centre. My argument is that town centres historically grew because of passing trade. If that trade is now guided out of the town centre, well, where is the trade?... Even worse, the out of town shopping centres. Are they not direct competition to the "local" shops, and should they not be seen as unfair competition of the parking is free but the local council charge for town centre parking.... Yes political. But the point stands. As the local councils are trying to get traffic away from the main roads through town and onto out-of-town ring roads and bypasses, all they are doing is pushing the problem elsewhere, and effectively killing off the town centres..... well, yes and no. the trend I have seen is that when a town puts in a bypass, the mass marketers are quick to grab locations on the bypass, because they want people herded unwillingly past their shops. but the real intent of the bypass (ring road) is that those people who just want to be on their way can take the bypass, leaving the city center available to those who want to go to the shops. - should be a win-win. however, collective stupidity bollixes it up. but the alternative - my hometown has one road that goes clear through - and in the summer it gets so boggled up that NOBODY is willing to give up their place in line to stop at a store, even if they could find a place to park. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 19, 2014 10:26:31 GMT
Now here is the conundrum...
I know more short cuts that the postman... its my job, innit?...
But I take these runs to avoid traffic, and "Bypass" the town centres.
Last month, we just had to go to one of the towns I normally avoid...
I had no idea how much it had changed.
There were shops there well worth an investigate?..
If I had been going down those roads, I would have updated my knowledge of where to find stuff, and may have used some of those shops.
Instead of doing the "Lets make everything pedestrianised" mentality, we need to investigate road safety, but, importantly, we need to ENCOURAGE traffic through those roads, put in decent parking, and encourage people back to the town centre.
There is a new maul in Manchester, called the Trafford Centre.
Its one of those built on ex-industrial land shopping centres that was supposed to ease traffic in the main town centre...
Well, what do you know, I am expecting to now start avoiding the M60 that passes that way, and all other roads around the area, because the traffic in and out of that maul (and yes I have pinched that deliberate misspelling ) the traffic there is a nightmare.
Its ironic innit?.. all they have done is move the traffic chaos somewhere else... unfortunately, there is a HUGE industrial area next door that has been under siege every year around this time by bloody Christmas shoppers.....
And industrial parks were supposed to be put where traffic was a lot heavier in tons per vehicle to keep it away from rollerskate mentality... as in away from town centres....
On the Bypass.....
In fact, from now on, I will be screening work requests from any firm on that site, because I dont want to spend my first hour driving within sight of the place I have left, stuck in a great queue of idiots.
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Post by the light works on Nov 19, 2014 15:11:43 GMT
Now here is the conundrum... I know more short cuts that the postman... its my job, innit?... But I take these runs to avoid traffic, and "Bypass" the town centres. Last month, we just had to go to one of the towns I normally avoid... I had no idea how much it had changed. There were shops there well worth an investigate?.. If I had been going down those roads, I would have updated my knowledge of where to find stuff, and may have used some of those shops. Instead of doing the "Lets make everything pedestrianised" mentality, we need to investigate road safety, but, importantly, we need to ENCOURAGE traffic through those roads, put in decent parking, and encourage people back to the town centre. There is a new maul in Manchester, called the Trafford Centre. Its one of those built on ex-industrial land shopping centres that was supposed to ease traffic in the main town centre... Well, what do you know, I am expecting to now start avoiding the M60 that passes that way, and all other roads around the area, because the traffic in and out of that maul (and yes I have pinched that deliberate misspelling ) the traffic there is a nightmare. Its ironic innit?.. all they have done is move the traffic chaos somewhere else... unfortunately, there is a HUGE industrial area next door that has been under siege every year around this time by bloody Christmas shoppers..... And industrial parks were supposed to be put where traffic was a lot heavier in tons per vehicle to keep it away from rollerskate mentality... as in away from town centres.... On the Bypass..... In fact, from now on, I will be screening work requests from any firm on that site, because I dont want to spend my first hour driving within sight of the place I have left, stuck in a great queue of idiots. on years when I have done Christmas shopping, I have been tempted to make a placard to put in my windshield when I am done, saying "I am done shopping and want to get out of here" to see if that induces people to be more willing to make way for me. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 20, 2014 9:09:47 GMT
It induces more of we all have to share this same hell why should I be nice to you.
I have been blocked from getting behind my own bar by someone impatient to be served....
"You will have to wait until I get served"
"I work here, if you dont move, you wont get served"
"Who do you think you are?..."
"I dont have to think, I know, and I know I am the Landlord"
That twit was eventually thrown off the premises for insulting the bar staff... not me, the other staff who made him wait his turn...
I was one of the first Landlords in the area to induce a Zero Tolerance to insults and bad behaviour towards the bar staff.
No we dont need your custom that bad.
Behave, we are here to serve you, but we are not your servants.
Working on the trucks, I have been purposely blocked from using a loading bay by some twit who wanted to "Collect"...
....the collection bays are down there...>>>
He didnt care, he was getting loaded here.
He didnt, and had to move his vehicle down to the que for the collections bays.
Where he was purposely ignored for being a grumpy twit when asked to move down to the correct bays....
Christmas brigs out the worst in us...?...
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Post by the light works on Nov 20, 2014 16:05:10 GMT
It induces more of we all have to share this same hell why should I be nice to you. I have been blocked from getting behind my own bar by someone impatient to be served.... "You will have to wait until I get served" "I work here, if you dont move, you wont get served" "Who do you think you are?..." "I dont have to think, I know, and I know I am the Landlord" That twit was eventually thrown off the premises for insulting the bar staff... not me, the other staff who made him wait his turn... I was one of the first Landlords in the area to induce a Zero Tolerance to insults and bad behaviour towards the bar staff. No we dont need your custom that bad. Behave, we are here to serve you, but we are not your servants. Working on the trucks, I have been purposely blocked from using a loading bay by some twit who wanted to "Collect"... ....the collection bays are down there...>>> He didnt care, he was getting loaded here. He didnt, and had to move his vehicle down to the que for the collections bays. Where he was purposely ignored for being a grumpy twit when asked to move down to the correct bays.... Christmas brigs out the worst in us...?... the theory is based on the idea of enlightened self interest. of course, I grant many people's self interest is not enlightened. however, a person looking for a parking space may be more willing to give way to a person who is leaving the parking lot than another person who is also looking for a parking space. as for your grumpy twit - the handlers should have let him back in, removed any cargo from his trailer, and then told him "okay, you're all done" |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 21, 2014 9:29:01 GMT
Grumpy Twit was a Roller-skate driver collecting heavy thing they dont wheel out the front door... he had large estate vehicle with ample room.
But yes, he did get a less-than-perfect service from the lads on the bay.
More a case of here it is load it yourself....
Other people they would help push things in the boot?...
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Post by the light works on Nov 21, 2014 15:33:41 GMT
Grumpy Twit was a Roller-skate driver collecting heavy thing they dont wheel out the front door... he had large estate vehicle with ample room. But yes, he did get a less-than-perfect service from the lads on the bay. More a case of here it is load it yourself.... Other people they would help push things in the boot?... then I'm sure there was a lot of things they could have offloaded. |
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Post by kharnynb on Nov 25, 2014 9:25:39 GMT
Savonlinna ring-road at the least did wonders on both the time it takes me to get to dad-in-law(40+mins to less than 20) and the traffic inside town.
Depending where you have to be, it's better to take the ring or go straight through town.
But if it is past the central market, it's a good bet you are faster by ringroad.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 26, 2014 8:48:42 GMT
Manchester Ring Road, M60/M62, is now a "Smart Motorway"
Read, its clucking Dumb.
They are doing work, so, its now miles of cones with NO ONE WORKING and all reduced to a crawl at peak times.
Today especially its a mess... I just tried working around it and failed.
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Post by the light works on Nov 26, 2014 14:58:15 GMT
Manchester Ring Road, M60/M62, is now a "Smart Motorway" Read, its clucking Dumb. They are doing work, so, its now miles of cones with NO ONE WORKING and all reduced to a crawl at peak times. Today especially its a mess... I just tried working around it and failed. It is a holiday week in the US so road workers around the world have the week off. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 28, 2014 8:50:31 GMT
This has been going on for MONTHS......
The workers work at Night....
So why cant they move the bloody cones during the day to let traffic through?...
I though that was what the idea of working at night was?..
If they are working at night to be there when its quieter, but leave the cones in place, why cant they have double shifts and work the day as well, get the (beep)ing work done in half the time and get the (DONG!) out of there and leave us alone quicker to get on with out own (blurp)ing jobs?...
They are not the most important thing on the road.
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Post by the light works on Nov 28, 2014 14:47:17 GMT
This has been going on for MONTHS...... The workers work at Night.... So why cant they move the bloody cones during the day to let traffic through?... I though that was what the idea of working at night was?.. If they are working at night to be there when its quieter, but leave the cones in place, why cant they have double shifts and work the day as well, get the (beep)ing work done in half the time and get the (DONG!) out of there and leave us alone quicker to get on with out own (blurp)ing jobs?... They are not the most important thing on the road. because assuming they are cut from the same cloth as our road workers, it takes them 4 hours to set up the cones, and another 4 to remove them, which means they don't have any time left to work. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 28, 2014 14:57:48 GMT
keep in mind we have a road constriction project going on in my hometown that was started sometime in the last decade, left dormant for multiple years, and then restarted last spring. by my estimate, they have torn about a third of the new asphalt back up to bury pipes and things, the new curbs don't line up with the new storm drains, and if I am understanding the project correctly, they still won't have added any actual traffic lanes when they get done.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 29, 2014 9:36:40 GMT
This has been going on for MONTHS...... The workers work at Night.... So why cant they move the bloody cones during the day to let traffic through?... I though that was what the idea of working at night was?.. If they are working at night to be there when its quieter, but leave the cones in place, why cant they have double shifts and work the day as well, get the (beep)ing work done in half the time and get the (DONG!) out of there and leave us alone quicker to get on with out own (blurp)ing jobs?... They are not the most important thing on the road. because assuming they are cut from the same cloth as our road workers, it takes them 4 hours to set up the cones, and another 4 to remove them, which means they don't have any time left to work. So why dont they only cone off the part they are working on?... Six miles of cones, but only 200 yds being worked on at any one time, with 5 mile of un-needed cones..... |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 29, 2014 9:38:54 GMT
The roads this last night were quiet.
I have been out of Manchester, into the depths of Lancashire, delivering to 24hr businesses, getting backlogs of non important stuff out of the way to make space for Xmas rush.
Last night was a good night, one of those when you realise just how much you love the job... everything went smooth.
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