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Post by silverdragon on Dec 8, 2014 8:50:09 GMT
Multi-function trailers... Ok, I know a few of them, but only in the sense that they carry more than one type of strange load. We have skeletons that expand, the wheels stay at the same distance, but the framework that supports the shipping crates can be expanded in and out to take different configurations of one or two different sized crates. But multi-function s something there isnt a lot of here. Its a Minority. I suspect because there will always be the right trailer near.... or near enough to be viable... I suspect you have to have more variety on the actual trailer because of the logistics of having the right trailer in the right place?... you have a hell of a lot of country to cover over there. Over here, if it all gets complicated, they get a low-loader and call me. I am referring to box (van) trailers, flatbeds, and the like. Trailers which get used for "whatever" - as contrasted with such as lowbeds, gasoline tankers, etc which have a specific kind of load they are used for. So your standard trailer has ability to move axles?... Thats novel. On UK trailers they are kinda welded in place, very much so, they are part of the framework.... But we also have skirts and fenders under there as well to prevent side intrusion from other traffic. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 8, 2014 15:40:48 GMT
I am referring to box (van) trailers, flatbeds, and the like. Trailers which get used for "whatever" - as contrasted with such as lowbeds, gasoline tankers, etc which have a specific kind of load they are used for. So your standard trailer has ability to move axles?... Thats novel. On UK trailers they are kinda welded in place, very much so, they are part of the framework.... But we also have skirts and fenders under there as well to prevent side intrusion from other traffic. there is a rail system mounted on the trailer, and the bogey is mounted to the mate to the rail system. of course, by the first law of the interwebz, I can't find a GOOD picture of the system. [img src="http://tractor-trailer.model.ntrci.org/resources/home/trailer_images/img_73.jpg" alt=" ![]() edit: or apparently even one that will post. |
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Post by ponytail61 on Dec 8, 2014 17:44:27 GMT
So your standard trailer has ability to move axles?... Thats novel. On UK trailers they are kinda welded in place, very much so, they are part of the framework.... But we also have skirts and fenders under there as well to prevent side intrusion from other traffic. there is a rail system mounted on the trailer, and the bogey is mounted to the mate to the rail system. of course, by the first law of the interwebz, I can't find a GOOD picture of the system. [img src="http://tractor-trailer.model.ntrci.org/resources/home/trailer_images/img_73.jpg" alt=" ![]() edit: or apparently even one that will post. This page has a better pic and explains the positioning www.truckingtruth.com/cdl-training-program/page113 |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 9, 2014 7:18:28 GMT
Again a difference in culture.
Just arguing the for and against here, I am wondering which is better?...
To change the weight distribution in U$A you move the wheels.
In UK, you just move the bloody load inside.... when your loading the thing up....
Its difficult to explain how, because its one of those things you just do, but if I have a mixed load, I will move pallets around on the loading order until I get a balanced load front to back and side to side.
You just look at whats on the ground and you sort of instinctively know how it has to go?..
We have restraining straps, so if its a small size cargo, it doesnt have to go against the headboard, it can go just in front of the wheels and get strapped or chained down.
Now perhaps its just because its the way I am used to...
But.
For me, if you have chains to strap a load down, and the load is on the forklift, placing the load in the right place with a forklift and throwing the chains over it must be a lot easier than having to put it in the wrong place then have to move the axles underneath?...
Plus that also changes how the trailer will drag, it alters the radius of corners, its a different characteristic on how it will swing if you have to stomp the brakes 'cos some twit doing 30 decides to pull in front of you when you doing 55....
And I got to ask, how do you move the brake lines?
Surely if you move the wheels from the back of the trailer right up front your going to end up with a loop of lines?... just hanging there in front of the wheels?...
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Post by the light works on Dec 9, 2014 14:58:45 GMT
Again a difference in culture. Just arguing the for and against here, I am wondering which is better?... To change the weight distribution in U$A you move the wheels. In UK, you just move the bloody load inside.... when your loading the thing up.... Its difficult to explain how, because its one of those things you just do, but if I have a mixed load, I will move pallets around on the loading order until I get a balanced load front to back and side to side. You just look at whats on the ground and you sort of instinctively know how it has to go?.. We have restraining straps, so if its a small size cargo, it doesnt have to go against the headboard, it can go just in front of the wheels and get strapped or chained down. Now perhaps its just because its the way I am used to... But. For me, if you have chains to strap a load down, and the load is on the forklift, placing the load in the right place with a forklift and throwing the chains over it must be a lot easier than having to put it in the wrong place then have to move the axles underneath?... Plus that also changes how the trailer will drag, it alters the radius of corners, its a different characteristic on how it will swing if you have to stomp the brakes 'cos some twit doing 30 decides to pull in front of you when you doing 55.... And I got to ask, how do you move the brake lines? Surely if you move the wheels from the back of the trailer right up front your going to end up with a loop of lines?... just hanging there in front of the wheels?... from last to first: yes, you have a coil of brake line ahead of the bogie system. if it is going to hang up on something you shouldn't have driven over it, anyway. as for changing how the trailer will drag, yes, it does - so you put the bogie as far forward as the load will allow, because shorter wheelbase goes around the corners a little closer to true. as far as loading it right - first you decide your bogie position, then you load your trailer for that bogie position. if they gave you a load of empty soda cans (yes, such a load has been hauled, and no it doesn't register as a load on the scale) then you shift the bogie all the way forward so you have the shortest wheelbase you can get. if they have two rolls of steel that are the maximum weight your rig can possibly carry, you shift the bogie all the way back, and set one roll over the kingpin and the other over the bogie. (remember, a longer wheelbase allows a heavier GVW) that way a standard trailer can be anything from a 40' wheelbase to a 60' wheelbase depending on what the driver needs. what do you do if you show up with a 40' trailer and the load is 1000# too heavy for a 40' trailer? |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 10, 2014 9:33:48 GMT
I have done that load..... and one of footballs... and one of polystyrene packaging materials...
Dont turn up with a 40ft trailer in the first place... knowledge of the load before you turn up is important?...
Truth be known, the 40ft trailers are in minority here, our standard is 60ft, max weight is 44 tons before it becomes STGO, our axles are fixed, and the weight doesnt alter on how far apart the axles are.
So a 40ft trailer with one heavy lump is still max weight allowance 44tons.
If you work that out, a 40ft trailer has less trailer, so, actually, MORE load allowance?..
Trailers come in either single axle twin wheel, (thats 4 tyres) for light stuff, double axle (8 tyres) or treble axle with either again twin tyre wheel or single thick wheel.
Dragging a treble axle round tight corners is a pain, so many come with the ability to lift an axle.
Some roads have axle weight restrictions, so more wheels is better, but that is axle weight, if your load is spread out evenly, you should have no problem, but if its one great lump over one set of axles, you may have a problem...
Thankfully, in the specialist world of IDW, we have maps that show restricted roads in Red... and low bridges are marked, and width restrictions are again marked, and they put weak bridges on there as well.
But most "A" rated road have standard 60ft wagon 13ft high 44 ton allowances built in to the road, as standard, anything that isnt, is changed, to allow good freight movements all over the country.
Setting the wheels where they are on UK (and europe) trailers gives a standard towing dynamic and we all get taught (I hope) the right way to go round a corner without munching peoples toes on the pavement. (Sidewalk in U$A) Roads are built to allow good cornering for that type of wagon.
If you cant get it round that corner, and thats the only access point, they get a rigid... as in non articulated, get the load spilt.
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Post by the light works on Dec 10, 2014 15:06:52 GMT
here we have axle loading and total load for wheelbase. one of our local bridges has been slowly driven down into the mud - and we are no longer allowed to drive our biggest apparatus on it. (all our two axle rigs are within limits, but the three axle rigs are too heavy.) but then, it is not legal to drive this one in the state of Wahington, period.  the US mindset is based more on versatility. here we even have truckers hauling liquids on a flatbed trailer. a good trucker is expected to be able to take a standard trailer and best configure it for his particular load. this includes knowing whether he wants a short wheelbase trailer or a long wheelbase trailer. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 11, 2014 8:45:46 GMT
Anyone else reading that thinking of the old Red-neck recipe of turtle soup in a basket?...
I am presuming they use poly tanks, and the liquids are non hazardous....
Bulk liquids are tankers, no exceptions over here.
I guess our roads are just a hell of a lot better at load bearing than yours...
Not that its easier to drive a truck here, just its easier for the SWIFT guys?...
And non standard loads are left to "Specialist" handlers....
Like me.
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Post by kharnynb on Dec 11, 2014 10:41:12 GMT
As far as i've heard, they budget for road maintanance and building in the USA has been basically robbed empty over the years.
Comparing it to british or esp. german roads would be rather unfair due to density and purpose of the roads.
Though finnish roads, apart from smallish ones to cottages, are of good quality too.(though we do pay big time on road and gasoline compared to usa)
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Post by the light works on Dec 11, 2014 15:42:20 GMT
Anyone else reading that thinking of the old Red-neck recipe of turtle soup in a basket?... I am presuming they use poly tanks, and the liquids are non hazardous.... Bulk liquids are tankers, no exceptions over here. I guess our roads are just a hell of a lot better at load bearing than yours... Not that its easier to drive a truck here, just its easier for the SWIFT guys?... And non standard loads are left to "Specialist" handlers.... Like me. it is basically a heavy gauge rubber bladder strapped down on the trailer like a huge flattish sausage. I forget what they were hauling in them. and our roads vary widely - as Kharnyb said, our road maintenance budgets are the first to be pilfered in any budget cycle, and the republicans screamed blue bloody murder when Obama suggested using stimulus money to hire people to fix some of our worst roads and bridges. because, you know, there's no way THAT would stimulate the economy or solve the unemployment problem. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 12, 2014 8:08:55 GMT
So a balloon filled with water on a flat bed, no side restraints?...
Guaranteed fail in my books.
I would walk away from that if I was asked to try.
Perhaps we in UK have got soft?.. no, we are just used to the occasional elf-and-safe-tea that makes sense, any "Bladder" that is used must be contained in packaging "Fit for purpose" or fit for transport.
As in a forking great strong metal crate at the least ...
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Post by ponytail61 on Dec 12, 2014 16:00:58 GMT
So a balloon filled with water on a flat bed, no side restraints?... Guaranteed fail in my books. I would walk away from that if I was asked to try. Perhaps we in UK have got soft?.. no, we are just used to the occasional elf-and-safe-tea that makes sense, any "Bladder" that is used must be contained in packaging "Fit for purpose" or fit for transport. As in a forking great strong metal crate at the least ... I had never heard of them. Seems pretty crazy. Here's a link to manufacturer. atlinc.com/liquid.html |
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Post by the light works on Dec 12, 2014 16:02:29 GMT
So a balloon filled with water on a flat bed, no side restraints?... Guaranteed fail in my books. I would walk away from that if I was asked to try. Perhaps we in UK have got soft?.. no, we are just used to the occasional elf-and-safe-tea that makes sense, any "Bladder" that is used must be contained in packaging "Fit for purpose" or fit for transport. As in a forking great strong metal crate at the least ... as far as that, not much risk of the bladder going somewhere - the flat design made it resistant to rolling, and the fact it was loaded to pressure prevented sloshing - plus rumor had it that the liquid carried was pretty viscous. this is way lighter construction than what I used to see on the freeway, but it gives you the idea.  |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 14, 2014 11:59:24 GMT
No no no no no no no.......
Just No.
Never ever ask me to drive that.
Perhaps I am too old and sensible, perhaps I resist change (Not true), perhaps I am scared of what I dont know (Which isnt much) perhaps I am just too long in the tooth, perhaps its one reason why I have allowed my Hazardous Chemical licence to lapse, no way on this tiny earth would I feel safe seeing one of them with a haz-plate within eyesight range of reading the plate...
and I can see Bus numbers from half a mile away.....
Fluid dynamics, on a corner, that will transfer all its weight to one side.
Those straps are NOT enough to secure it.
I dont ever trust what I am seeing on that site.
Not even the one contained in a shipping container.
There is a perfectly good usable SOLID STEEL design of a large cylinder with internal baffles already available, now just be a good chap and come back with one of those.
I see from the site they intend to transport FUEL in them....
Awae hame and bail yer heed numptie.
That will NEVER pass european legislation until they design a "bladder" that is inside a steel fireproof puncture resistant container... you know... like a metal tube thing?.. we call them TANKERS.....
I am looking at that thing, and I know whats next, the vehicle stops at a set of lights, and some chavi twonka runs a blade through to see what happens next....
europe wide legislation states that the transport vehicle must prove it has deterrent from pedestrian interference somewhere in its transport regulations.... that has exactly NONE?...
Plus if some wag at the back end flips those two ratchet strap handles, first time the wagon hits the brakes, instant chaos.
That thing actually scares me.
It has me quaking in my boots.
I see a BLEVE in the near future... and a mass spill of all that liquid, on fire, all over a road.....
Lets put this in real world terms.
If I see one on the road in front of me, with Hazard plates, if I am not overtaking it, I am stopping.
I see that as more danger than a drunk driver.
Its not "If" it has an incident, its "When"
Now please, I am an experienced Transport person with over 10 years Hazardous load experience at current levels.
I am running scared of possible bulk fuel in what looks like a giant Water-bed.
If that worries me.....
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Post by the light works on Dec 14, 2014 15:48:06 GMT
the one I posted was for water. but as I also said - the ones I used to see on the freeway were made of sterner stuff. as in there was a slight indent in the bladder where the standard cargo strap was ratcheted down over it - but there was no jiggle when the driver hit a bump. the rubber (as in the stuff tires are made of) looked about an inch thick where the heavy steel closures on the ends pinched it off.
(and by "standard" I mean YOUR standard, not Wal-Mart /Asda standard.)
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