|
|
Post by silverdragon on Nov 27, 2014 8:36:46 GMT
Gambeson padded armour...
The idea, I believe, is a layer of sheeps woll between two layers of cloth and then several other layers, stitched tightly together, and its an ancient form of "Arrow proof" armour....
Especially if worn underneath Chain mail, as it spreads out the impact of quarrels, (cross bow bolts) which helps prevent them coming through.
Is this another version of Ancient Armour worth the testing, same as paper armour, and even the phrase "Ancient Kevlar" ideas....
This idea bought to you from watching an archaeological show "Secrets of the castle" on BBC... but I have seen these quilted padded jackets before, just never realise how important they were.
Chain mail on its own is not as "proof" against arrows without this undergarment?....
The sheeps wool tangles up in the arrow, the thick layer of multi layer cloth is like the paper armour idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by wvengineer on Nov 27, 2014 14:14:14 GMT
My mom is a rabid knitter, so I have been exposed to quite a few fibers and ways of working with them. Just tightly woven wool, I can't see being a huge help, however, felted wool, I could see have a lot more ability to tangle up and arrow. One question I have is was the knowledge of felting common in that part of history?
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on Nov 27, 2014 15:12:07 GMT
I am round a friends house on Monday night, who is a medieval reinactor , I will ask him then what he thinks as he owns a set. One thing I think it helped to do was reduce chaffing a bit, but I am sure it was also good at reducing the force of a blow and arrow penetration. Or I guess I could email them thinking on it
Secrets of the Castle is a good show, like the Tudor and Victorian Farm shows that the same team did a few years ago, this time they are at the site in France where a university has a 25 year long project to build a replica castle.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 27, 2014 15:22:39 GMT
Gambeson padded armour... The idea, I believe, is a layer of sheeps woll between two layers of cloth and then several other layers, stitched tightly together, and its an ancient form of "Arrow proof" armour.... Especially if worn underneath Chain mail, as it spreads out the impact of quarrels, (cross bow bolts) which helps prevent them coming through. Is this another version of Ancient Armour worth the testing, same as paper armour, and even the phrase "Ancient Kevlar" ideas.... This idea bought to you from watching an archaeological show "Secrets of the castle" on BBC... but I have seen these quilted padded jackets before, just never realise how important they were. Chain mail on its own is not as "proof" against arrows without this undergarment?.... The sheeps wool tangles up in the arrow, the thick layer of multi layer cloth is like the paper armour idea. (yes, WV, felting was known at the time) vastly overrated. the real purpose of the gambeson was to protect the occupant from the inside of the armor. quilted cloth armor, on its own, was better than nothing, and to a degree, the gambeson improved the protection of the armor it was worn with. however, the primary function was that the inside of the armor had various bits and pinch points, and the gambeson cushioned them. It also provided a bit of a thermal barrier because armor is invariably too hot or too cold for comfort. (not to mention, covering exposed skin at the joints) Attachment Deleted |
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on Nov 27, 2014 15:22:44 GMT
My mom is a rabid knitter, so I have been exposed to quite a few fibers and ways of working with them. Just tightly woven wool, I can't see being a huge help, however, felted wool, I could see have a lot more ability to tangle up and arrow. One question I have is was the knowledge of felting common in that part of history? There are felt hats known about from the 12th century, some examples still exist apparently, in England. In some collections of medieval clothing. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Nov 28, 2014 8:38:21 GMT
She knits Rabbits?....
Sorry couldnt resist...
Onwards with the thread...
Yes it was designed to be worn under Chain Mail..., that is known....
But the point is that it added to the arrow-proofness of the "armour", in that its spreads out the impact of the projectile.....
It was tested, (On the show) and the arrow fired, from crossbow, only penetrated a little... much less than expected.
You could have got away with a minor flesh wound (and no black knight jokes there) and perhaps continued on?...
Worn under the chain mail, they had to wear something, chain mail could be a little cold on its own.
The padded shirt was developed a little to be warmer, and developed into something quite different at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by wvengineer on Nov 28, 2014 13:39:28 GMT
I don't know about rabbits, but she has done dogs, cats, Marvin the Paraboid Android, and even a dead fish hat... |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 29, 2014 12:03:01 GMT
Not sure about arrows, but it certainly would help if you were hit by a sword, spear, mace, shield and so forth. It could take a rib-breaking impact and turn it into rib-bruising one.
It would probably also help if you fell off your horse, and make carrying a shield on your back less painful.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 29, 2014 16:46:50 GMT
Not sure about arrows, but it certainly would help if you were hit by a sword, spear, mace, shield and so forth. It could take a rib-breaking impact and turn it into rib-bruising one. It would probably also help if you fell off your horse, and make carrying a shield on your back less painful. in the years I fought, I went from a heavily padded gambeson to a lightly padded one to a cotehardie that was already becoming worn. didn't really make THAT much difference. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 29, 2014 18:24:07 GMT
Were you in the armour for several weeks at a time?
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 29, 2014 20:56:52 GMT
Were you in the armour for several weeks at a time? I had a few times I was in armor for over 8 hours at a time. rarely armored up more than two days in a row, though. - but extended wear is comfort related - which, as I have already said, was the primary function of the gambeson. (in some styles of armor, the gambeson, or arming jacket, was also integral to the method of securing the armor to the wearer.) it was to blows that the gambeson made little difference. (and actually, chain mail only makes a small difference with blunt force weapons - chain can spread the impact of an edged weapon by a factor of 4 or 5. a mass weapon will only be spread by a factor of 1.1-1.5 - and beyond that, the inertial value of chain is very dependant on the particular impact - strike down on a collarbone and chain absorbs very little kinetic energy strike up into an armpit, and you have to have a lot of follow through to get it to the body at all. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Nov 30, 2014 10:13:12 GMT
Anything that gives you an edge.
If all you have is say a thin cotton shirt... ok, spot the mistake, did they have cotton?..
Ok linen, wool, whatever, if all you had was a thin shirt and someone takes a sword blow next to you without harm, you start thinking "I want one of them" and when you get one, you start thinking you are immortal....
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Nov 30, 2014 13:59:50 GMT
They did have cotton. It was imported from India, I'd assume down the silk road, and Europeans didn't actually know what the plant it came from looked like for a long long time. (They thought it came from sheep that grew on trees. Seriously.)
Cotton was therefore expensive, and only available for the rich. Wool, linen and flax were a much cheaper options and much more practical for 'mass produced' armours. I'm also guessing that wool was a lot warmer than cotton in the northern European climate (especially during this period). So even those who could have afforded it would have been more likely to pick wool for battle field armours.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2014 15:49:02 GMT
They did have cotton. It was imported from India, I'd assume down the silk road, and Europeans didn't actually know what the plant it came from looked like for a long long time. (They thought it came from sheep that grew on trees. Seriously.) Cotton was therefore expensive, and only available for the rich. Wool, linen and flax were a much cheaper options and much more practical for 'mass produced' armours. I'm also guessing that wool was a lot warmer than cotton in the northern European climate (especially during this period). So even those who could have afforded it would have been more likely to pick wool for battle field armours. right, what is now expensive luxury material was cheap at the time and vice versa - except silk, which has always been a bit of a luxury in the west. |
|
