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Post by rmc on Jan 26, 2015 1:57:42 GMT
To me, this might be a technical question based on the maths behind quantity used per desired result for two types of popular soaps available on the market today (adding to that the impact of wasted quantities on environment and infrastructure).
What I'm trying to ask is basically this:
So, is liquid hand soap really any better than bar soap?
The thoughts on this, to me, center around the notion that liquid hand soaps are generally marketed as superior due to their being antibacterial, quicker to foam and lather, easier and neater to dispense, etc.
But, there looks to be some downside to the liquid type: Usually a drop or two is all that is really needed to do the job (IF THAT), but, all-too-often way more is dispensed and ends up down the drain. Repeated millions and millions of times by countless liquid soap users and we have tons of extra soap hitting the pipes of our cities (actually causing clogs, if you can believe it) and impacting the environment needlessly, perhaps?
So, how much bar soap is used each time a person washes their hands verses the amount of liquid soap used for the same job?
And what the heck is so non-antibacterial about regular bar soap anyway? Does bacteria like to be washed in bar soap and is only threatened by the liquid type? And, more importantly, do we really want or need to be washing with so much antibacterial soap anyway?
Is liquid soap really "all that"?
And, if not -- why do we seem swamped in it??!
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 26, 2015 8:59:02 GMT
From a usage thing...
We use liquid soap here, because its easier.
For a start, gone are the scum laden dishes where the bar always sat....
And that on its own is a win.
Gone are the clumps of mostly used soap that is too small to get any more use out of but no one can be bothered to replace or throw away.
Gone are the times you have to clean the soap before you use it....
Does it work as well?...
Yes.
And more often.
Wasted soap?... having to get the soap wet wastes soap.
I think the reside of soap clogging drains is more to do with us being more clean and washing our hands more than the type of soap being used.
I also believe the drains we are using were designed for a population half our size... they are at capacity....
Also need to look at on that one is the amount of wasted soap by people overloading the soap in the washing machine.
Its more convenient here, you get one squirt that is "Just enough" to wash hands, job done, no mess to clear up, and replacing the bottle is easy.
Its usually empty as well, so less waste?..
(The plastic bottle goes in the recycling as well...)
Is it "All that", well, for this family, yes,
yes it is...
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Post by the light works on Jan 26, 2015 20:30:39 GMT
I think most people here who use liquid soap do it more for convenience than anything else.
however, without getting into the question of product testing, testing whether liquid soap, or prefoaming soap, or bar soap is superior has the potential for surprising answers, which makes it a potential subject. (by prefoaming, I refer to soaps where the pump mechanism delivers the soap already foamy.)
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 27, 2015 0:31:20 GMT
So, what we need tested is this:
1. Is liquid soap more anti-bacterial than bar soap? I see a potential problem with giving a definitive answer here, because some manufacturers (of either kind) might claim after the test that the results they got were "just because you didn't use OUR soap". And there may be some validity to that claim. The basic ingredients of regular hand soap are almost the same for every manufacturer, but there are variations and some are indeed better than others. We could possibly get around this by either phrasing the question slightly differently, or by better defining what "anti-bacterial" means in this particular case.
2. Does liquid soap cause more waste? Pretty straight forward to test.
3. If bar soap is less anti-bacterial than liquid soap, what makes that difference? If both soaps are basically made of the same stuff, then this can only be proven false, because either the bacteria gathers on the bar soap after use, effectively proving that soap doesn't kill bacteria at all, but just loosens it from the skin so they can be rinsed off afterwards (meaning that neither is truly "anti-bacterial"), or no bacteria gathers on the bar soap, proving that both types kill bacteria, so there's no difference. The only way this can end up confirmed is if there's some major ingredient in liquid soap that isn't in bar soap, which makes the difference.
Are these the three we're going for?
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Post by rmc on Jan 27, 2015 1:00:38 GMT
So, what we need tested is this: 1. Is liquid soap more anti-bacterial than bar soap? I see a potential problem with giving a definitive answer here, because some manufacturers (of either kind) might claim after the test that the results they got were "just because you didn't use OUR soap". And there may be some validity to that claim. The basic ingredients of regular hand soap are almost the same for every manufacturer, but there are variations and some are indeed better than others. We could possibly get around this by either phrasing the question slightly differently, or by better defining what "anti-bacterial" means in this particular case. 2. Does liquid soap cause more waste? Pretty straight forward to test. 3. If bar soap is less anti-bacterial than liquid soap, what makes that difference? If both soaps are basically made of the same stuff, then this can only be proven false, because either the bacteria gathers on the bar soap after use, effectively proving that soap doesn't kill bacteria at all, but just loosens it from the skin so they can be rinsed off afterwards (meaning that neither is truly "anti-bacterial"), or no bacteria gathers on the bar soap, proving that both types kill bacteria, so there's no difference. The only way this can end up confirmed is if there's some major ingredient in liquid soap that isn't in bar soap, which makes the difference. Are these the three we're going for? Seems like a very clean line of reasoning to me!! Man! This is why I've enjoied this particular group of internet individuals from all the way back to Disco: always can make me think! Even when I'm proven to be completely, totally wrong, it's just so cool to get a fresh perspective on things. Everyone here: THANKS! You all are some way-great people! |
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Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2015 5:24:17 GMT
option 4: which is cleaner in the bathroom. (related to the is soap self-cleaning concept)
option 5: which gets hands cleaner? (based on what is left on the hands after standard washing)
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 27, 2015 8:18:05 GMT
Not so fast.... wait for the bar of soap and the dish or handbasin its sat on to get nice and scummy, then the products you need to clean up the mess....
Then that mess its self is part of the waste.
A good percentage of the soap is wasted in getting the bar clean enough to use.
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 27, 2015 12:55:27 GMT
So, what we need tested is this: 1. Is liquid soap more anti-bacterial than bar soap? I see a potential problem with giving a definitive answer here, because some manufacturers (of either kind) might claim after the test that the results they got were "just because you didn't use OUR soap". And there may be some validity to that claim. The basic ingredients of regular hand soap are almost the same for every manufacturer, but there are variations and some are indeed better than others. We could possibly get around this by either phrasing the question slightly differently, or by better defining what "anti-bacterial" means in this particular case. 2. Does liquid soap cause more waste? Pretty straight forward to test. 3. If bar soap is less anti-bacterial than liquid soap, what makes that difference? If both soaps are basically made of the same stuff, then this can only be proven false, because either the bacteria gathers on the bar soap after use, effectively proving that soap doesn't kill bacteria at all, but just loosens it from the skin so they can be rinsed off afterwards (meaning that neither is truly "anti-bacterial"), or no bacteria gathers on the bar soap, proving that both types kill bacteria, so there's no difference. The only way this can end up confirmed is if there's some major ingredient in liquid soap that isn't in bar soap, which makes the difference. Are these the three we're going for? Seems like a very clean line of reasoning to me!! Man! This is why I've enjoied this particular group of internet individuals from all the way back to Disco: always can make me think! Even when I'm proven to be completely, totally wrong, it's just so cool to get a fresh perspective on things. Everyone here: THANKS! You all are some way-great people! Why do you think we all migrated here when Disco was closing the boards? Each of us knew that the rest were some way-great people that could make us think  |
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 27, 2015 13:14:35 GMT
Not so fast.... wait for the bar of soap and the dish or handbasin its sat on to get nice and scummy, then the products you need to clean up the mess.... Then that mess its self is part of the waste. A good percentage of the soap is wasted in getting the bar clean enough to use. Question is, do you really need to get the bar clean at all, or is that just something you feel like you need to do, because it looks dirty? Does using a bar of soap with grime on it really make your hands any less clean? |
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Post by the light works on Jan 27, 2015 14:38:27 GMT
Not so fast.... wait for the bar of soap and the dish or handbasin its sat on to get nice and scummy, then the products you need to clean up the mess.... Then that mess its self is part of the waste. A good percentage of the soap is wasted in getting the bar clean enough to use. I was trained to rinse the bar before putting it back. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 28, 2015 9:14:17 GMT
Not so fast.... wait for the bar of soap and the dish or handbasin its sat on to get nice and scummy, then the products you need to clean up the mess.... Then that mess its self is part of the waste. A good percentage of the soap is wasted in getting the bar clean enough to use. Question is, do you really need to get the bar clean at all, or is that just something you feel like you need to do, because it looks dirty? Does using a bar of soap with grime on it really make your hands any less clean? I have kids. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 28, 2015 20:09:48 GMT
Question is, do you really need to get the bar clean at all, or is that just something you feel like you need to do, because it looks dirty? Does using a bar of soap with grime on it really make your hands any less clean? I have kids. Welcome to the club. What are you trying to say? |
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Post by the light works on Jan 28, 2015 20:47:58 GMT
Welcome to the club. What are you trying to say? I think he is saying his soap is dirty. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 29, 2015 9:06:17 GMT
My Kids do not rinse the soap after use....
And if you know kids, you know its their job to get grubby.....
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 29, 2015 11:15:04 GMT
My Kids do not rinse the soap after use.... And if you know kids, you know its their job to get grubby..... I know that, but you having dirty soap doesn't prove that dirty soap won't get your hands clean. After all, no matter how dirty that soap is, when you need to use it, you're going to get it wet and foamy and you're going to rinse off your hands afterwards. Question is, will a dirty bar of soap leave your hands less clean than a clean bar of soap? |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 30, 2015 9:11:06 GMT
That depends on how much soap you use?...
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 30, 2015 20:28:56 GMT
Again, that's an assumption. You may be right, but you may just as well be wrong, which is why it's a question that needs to be answered along with the rest we've posted so far.
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Post by c64 on Nov 29, 2015 14:25:32 GMT
For antibacterial soap, it depends.
Common antibacterial soap can be solid or liquid. Real "hospital grade" antibacterial soap contains a lot of alcohol and can't be solid. So real antibacterial soap is always a liquid. Also strong antibacterial fluids are soap-free!
The common antibacterial soaps (liquid or solid) are not safe since bacteria can become resistant. By removing the non-resistant bacteria, you help the resistant ones to become dominant and prosper. And the resistant ones are more likely to be bad for your health.
So use regular soap (solid or liquid) and use a good antibacterial fluid for your special needs when you need it!
Liquid soap in a good dispenser is not only more convenient, it is also more hygienic. There are two reasons:
1. Soap can grow mould when constantly kept wet and warm. So a frequently used bar of soap can turn very nasty quickly. Liquid soap can also spoil but inside a dispenser, it is less exposed to spores. It is best to use a small dispenser and refill it more often or don't fill much into a big (e.g. wall mounted) dispenser if it isn't frequently used. Also wait until the dispenser is almost empty before refilling and rinse it out every couple of refills.
2. Dirt can stick to a bar of soap. E.g. if your hands are covered in grease or ashes, the bar of soap is really dirty even if you have your hands clean. You need to repeat washing your hands to clean the bar of soap, too.
There really is no big difference between soap in bars and common liquid soaps. Usually, liquid soap is more expensive, especially if it comes in a disposable dispenser. You can refill the disposable dispensers quite a lot of times. And you can make your own liquid soap! Just grind down a bar of soap and then add boiling hot water (e.g. leftover hot water from making tea). You get real liquid soap for a much better price. Also you can add real antibacterial fluid with alcohol although you need a sealed dispenser or the alcohol will evaporate over time.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 30, 2015 8:54:38 GMT
Now ask why I wash the soap bar off before I use it?..
This I did not think of before you mentioned it, but I have always had a slight distrust of bars of soap that have multiple users.
Especially when its in a workplace.
So hence a new question...
Yes it gets you clean,... but....
Just how much bacterial transference between people happens with a bar of soap?..
Can it MAKE you ill by washing your hands?.
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2015 15:45:47 GMT
Now ask why I wash the soap bar off before I use it?.. This I did not think of before you mentioned it, but I have always had a slight distrust of bars of soap that have multiple users. Especially when its in a workplace. So hence a new question... Yes it gets you clean,... but.... Just how much bacterial transference between people happens with a bar of soap?.. Can it MAKE you ill by washing your hands?. that is something that a person with a lab could test. actually, it seems people have already done so. according to a quick internet search, bars of soap can harbor bacteria, but the factor that is relevant in the equation is that the soap then lets you rinse the bacteria back off. the exit doorknob will be a better source of bacteria. |
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