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Post by silverdragon on Jun 5, 2015 7:00:47 GMT
If you have seen the show "what could possibly go wrong", you have seen the idea.
In that show, they tried several things, like Parachutes, Air-brakes, a log under the tyres, and chucking the anchor (A REAL anchor) out the back....
Of course they failed.
But I appreciated the entertainment.....
So, can you stop a car at 30mph in 100ft without using conventional brakes?.. Their proposal was what can you do if the brakes fail.
Their parachute idea, fail, because even when Adam tried using a chute, full sized chute, as a anti-chase technique, it didnt exactly slow him down "That" much did it?... Drag races use chutes to skew away speed so their conventional brakes can work, .. I suggest Chutes only work effectively above a certain speed.
Air brakes?.. the ones they tried were not strong enough, wooden flaps that just blew backwards. Again, useless above a certain speed?...
An Anchor. On tarmac, useless, its not going to dig in is it?..
Friction.... they tried a heavy sledge, that may have worked better is they had put a rubber base on it to get traction?...
What other methods could have been used?
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Post by the light works on Jun 5, 2015 15:14:03 GMT
If you have seen the show "what could possibly go wrong", you have seen the idea. In that show, they tried several things, like Parachutes, Air-brakes, a log under the tyres, and chucking the anchor (A REAL anchor) out the back.... Of course they failed. But I appreciated the entertainment..... So, can you stop a car at 30mph in 100ft without using conventional brakes?.. Their proposal was what can you do if the brakes fail. Their parachute idea, fail, because even when Adam tried using a chute, full sized chute, as a anti-chase technique, it didnt exactly slow him down "That" much did it?... Drag races use chutes to skew away speed so their conventional brakes can work, .. I suggest Chutes only work effectively above a certain speed. Air brakes?.. the ones they tried were not strong enough, wooden flaps that just blew backwards. Again, useless above a certain speed?... An Anchor. On tarmac, useless, its not going to dig in is it?.. Friction.... they tried a heavy sledge, that may have worked better is they had put a rubber base on it to get traction?... What other methods could have been used? duh... more seriously, no. if you lose your brakes, and your e-brake, you're not going to make a short stop without having done some severe modifications on your car.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 6, 2015 4:58:32 GMT
Well then there is your problem... Get serious. This is going to have to be done on a wrecker, a car due to be scrapped.
From one of my mates at work, whats to stop something jamming the wheel-arch. Chuck a tyre, or something similar, under the back of the wheel, let it rotate into the wheel-arch and jam the wheel. Sure the wheel will lock, but a skid to stop in 30 yds or so is better than a brick wall at 99 yds?...
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Post by the light works on Jun 6, 2015 6:57:56 GMT
Well then there is your problem... Get serious. This is going to have to be done on a wrecker, a car due to be scrapped. From one of my mates at work, whats to stop something jamming the wheel-arch. Chuck a tyre, or something similar, under the back of the wheel, let it rotate into the wheel-arch and jam the wheel. Sure the wheel will lock, but a skid to stop in 30 yds or so is better than a brick wall at 99 yds?... somebody came up with the idea of a stop-net that would bind to the front wheels.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 7, 2015 9:30:58 GMT
Well then there is your problem... Get serious. This is going to have to be done on a wrecker, a car due to be scrapped. From one of my mates at work, whats to stop something jamming the wheel-arch. Chuck a tyre, or something similar, under the back of the wheel, let it rotate into the wheel-arch and jam the wheel. Sure the wheel will lock, but a skid to stop in 30 yds or so is better than a brick wall at 99 yds?... somebody came up with the idea of a stop-net that would bind to the front wheels. I know that one, its being put into tests somewhere in UK, where its set to replace the spike strip, because the thing will stop a TRUCK, and those with run-flats as well.
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Post by wvengineer on Jun 7, 2015 11:40:44 GMT
A sand pit/runaway truck ramp should work fairly well, but I don't know if that is the spirit of this one or not.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 7, 2015 13:22:23 GMT
How about blowing out the suspension, making the body of the car fall down onto the wheels and stopping the car by the sheer weight on the tires preventing them from rolling?
Place small shape charges on two points of both the springs and the shock absorbers, top and bottom, and put an emergency detonator button in the car. If both the regular brake and the e-brake are taken out, push the button and the shape charges blow the springs and shock absorbers clean out.
Could that work?
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Post by the light works on Jun 7, 2015 14:25:23 GMT
the bottom line is that cars do not have redundant braking systems. if you lose the primary brakes, you're looking for alternative ways to generate friction. if you were looking for a backup system, I'd say having heavy rubber mats that unspooled in front of the rear tires would probably be the best combination of effectiveness and controllability. all four would give the fastest stop, but then you lose all steering control.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 8, 2015 5:26:32 GMT
Hit the tree at 30, or steer round into the next one at 20...
Brake fade is not nice, I have experienced it, it kind of makes your stomach upset.
The idea of strong mats anchored to the car is good. The idea of an "escaper lane" has been used, unfortunately, its not always that portable?... Suspension collapse, if you had an air-ride system, dumping the air would work I suppose?...
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Post by the light works on Jun 8, 2015 14:09:09 GMT
Hit the tree at 30, or steer round into the next one at 20... Brake fade is not nice, I have experienced it, it kind of makes your stomach upset. The idea of strong mats anchored to the car is good. The idea of an "escaper lane" has been used, unfortunately, its not always that portable?... Suspension collapse, if you had an air-ride system, dumping the air would work I suppose?... granted, the stop-mats have to be secured pretty well. I've seen a lot of poorly located mud flaps pulled off when the driver tries to back over an obstruction like a curb, or speed bump, or the lines painted on the road.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 9, 2015 6:34:25 GMT
I think I like the idea.
Construction of the mat? You couldn't just pull the mat out from under your feet, so, what to use, treaded or untreaded, can you use something like a cut tyre, how to store it, how to deploy it?....
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Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2015 14:01:17 GMT
I think I like the idea. Construction of the mat? You couldn't just pull the mat out from under your feet, so, what to use, treaded or untreaded, can you use something like a cut tyre, how to store it, how to deploy it?.... I would not necessarily think the thickness of a tire would be necessary - definitely need the belting, but the thickness of a tire tread is partially to allow plenty to grind off in normal driving. This is a one time use-and-replace system. I would be inclined to store it between the walls of a double layer wheel arch (wheel well)
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Post by Cybermortis on Jun 9, 2015 21:42:16 GMT
Dropping the suspension is a really bad idea. The underside is going to scrape on the ground, which apart from tearing the road up is likely to rip the fuel tank open.
Remember that cops get somewhat concerned when people try driving on rims because the sparks can set fire to the car and fuel tank.
Oh, and you loose all measure of control over the car by dropping it on the body.
The net seen above is basically the emergency barrier system used on aircraft carriers since the first world war. Another system that you could theoretically take from carriers and use on cars is the arrester wire. A retractable hook system would be easy enough to put on a car under the rear part of the frame, and wouldn't have to be activated by hydraulics. The catch is that you'd have to heavily reinforce the frame to prevent the hook or frame from detaching from the rest of the car - which IS possible as there are carrier aircraft far heavier than anything but the largest ground vehicles and they have landing speeds higher than most cars will usually be traveling. Of course the deceleration would probably wreck the car anyway, and would certainly set off the airbags (which might not be a bad idea all things considered). But it would be preferable to hitting a tree.
Come to think of it as an emergency stopping system the arrester-wire would be kind of neat to see in a car, even if it wouldn't exactly be practical 99.99% of the time.
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Post by wvengineer on Jun 9, 2015 22:52:10 GMT
Forward mounted rocket engines. Multiple rockets would allow varying the reverse thrust. How about a portable run away truck ramp? Have a large amount of sand in the trunk with pipes in front of each tire. When triggered, it would dump the sand directly in front of the tire.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jun 10, 2015 0:21:01 GMT
What is needed here is a myth/story about an unusual way someone managed to bring a car to a stop, or a car being stopped in an unusual way safely. (The higher the speed the better)
Have they done stopping one car with another? Or did I imagine that?
Anyway. These are kind of interesting things to think about, and I could see them having some fun coming up with ideas and designs. But they need a 'real' myth to start from.
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Post by the light works on Jun 10, 2015 1:01:04 GMT
What is needed here is a myth/story about an unusual way someone managed to bring a car to a stop, or a car being stopped in an unusual way safely. (The higher the speed the better) Have they done stopping one car with another? Or did I imagine that? Anyway. These are kind of interesting things to think about, and I could see them having some fun coming up with ideas and designs. But they need a 'real' myth to start from. if they haven't, I imagined it, too. the suggestion I came up with for police chases was a harpoon gun. the problem with the arrestor hook is it is not self contained. unless you had a downward firing spike and the arrestor cable rig mounted to the car. but yes - we need a myth.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 10, 2015 11:21:20 GMT
I might have found us something. This video tells you that in an emergency where your brakes fail, you should NOT pump your brakes: Meanwhile, this site: www.wikihow.com/Stop-a-Car-with-No-Brakes tells you that's exactly what you SHOULD do, because it may rebuild enough pressure in the braking system for you to stop. A third site I've found ( www.driversedguru.com/driving-articles/car-auto-emergencies/brake-failure-steering-failure/) seems to agree a little bit with both, depending on whether you have ABS or not. It says that with ABS, you should simply press hard on the pedal and hold it and the ABS should kick in. Without ABS, pumping is needed to build up pressure. I personally know that the last site is right, but I have 5 different driver's licenses, so I should know. But does the average driver? After looking through a myriad of online auto forums, I'd say no. The discussion about pump vs. don't pump if your brakes fail rages on, so it would seem there are a lot of misconceptions out there about this question. Giving a definitive answer to that question might lead to the "ramp it up" section about what you could do in the unlikely scenario that both your main brakes and your E-brakes fail at the same time, leading to some of your ideas being tested.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jun 10, 2015 11:50:29 GMT
What about coming up with a list of mythical ways to stop your car if the breaks fail - not from 'official' sites but from popular culture, films and TV (the latter two, if anyone can find anything, would probably increase the odds of this getting noticed as they'd potentially have footage of the myth).
*Muses*
Maybe two aspects of this; Stopping a car from outside it. Examples; The car 'stun gun' used in (I think) one of the Fast and Furious films, shooting the radiator (as seen in the A-Team).
Stopping the car from inside; Turning the engine off, downshifting.
We'd need to be careful thinking of what would be safe to test. They are probably not going to be able to safely test anything that would require them to disconnect the actual brakes.
They could then use that as a jumping point to see what they can come up with, even if they are not really practical in the real world.
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Post by the light works on Jun 10, 2015 15:29:08 GMT
I might have found us something. This video tells you that in an emergency where your brakes fail, you should NOT pump your brakes: Meanwhile, this site: www.wikihow.com/Stop-a-Car-with-No-Brakes tells you that's exactly what you SHOULD do, because it may rebuild enough pressure in the braking system for you to stop. A third site I've found ( www.driversedguru.com/driving-articles/car-auto-emergencies/brake-failure-steering-failure/) seems to agree a little bit with both, depending on whether you have ABS or not. It says that with ABS, you should simply press hard on the pedal and hold it and the ABS should kick in. Without ABS, pumping is needed to build up pressure. I personally know that the last site is right, but I have 5 different driver's licenses, so I should know. But does the average driver? After looking through a myriad of online auto forums, I'd say no. The discussion about pump vs. don't pump if your brakes fail rages on, so it would seem there are a lot of misconceptions out there about this question. Giving a definitive answer to that question might lead to the "ramp it up" section about what you could do in the unlikely scenario that both your main brakes and your E-brakes fail at the same time, leading to some of your ideas being tested. the video - first, is skimpy on details, and second, is about a throttle jam rather than a brake failure. as for brake failures themselves, there are multiple reasons for brake failure. if you have broken brake lines, then there is no good recovery - you're left with the E-brake. if you are low on fluid, or have overheated fluid, pumping can help increase hydraulic pressure if the brakes are overheated, then you're pretty much needing lots of room for a run-down, or a runaway ramp. if your brake booster has gone bonkers and is fighting you instead of helping you - you also need a lot of room, or the e-brake.
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Post by the light works on Jun 10, 2015 15:33:15 GMT
What about coming up with a list of mythical ways to stop your car if the breaks fail - not from 'official' sites but from popular culture, films and TV (the latter two, if anyone can find anything, would probably increase the odds of this getting noticed as they'd potentially have footage of the myth). *Muses* Maybe two aspects of this; Stopping a car from outside it. Examples; The car 'stun gun' used in (I think) one of the Fast and Furious films, shooting the radiator (as seen in the A-Team). Stopping the car from inside; Turning the engine off, downshifting. We'd need to be careful thinking of what would be safe to test. They are probably not going to be able to safely test anything that would require them to disconnect the actual brakes. They could then use that as a jumping point to see what they can come up with, even if they are not really practical in the real world. I see two possibilities for safe testing. one would be a total brake failure rig in which there was a red flag that popped up if they pressed the brake pedal - leaving the brakes available for emergencies, but invalidating a test if they used them. the second would be a stationary rig something like a dynamometer, where the car never actually moved, but the rig simulated its momentum. that would be a big build, but the runaway scenario would result in waiting for the rig to coast to a stop. the first could test theories that used things external to the drive train, the second could be used to test things that used drivetrain components as part of the rig.
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