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Post by silverdragon on Oct 4, 2015 6:38:26 GMT
A Myth has been presented that may have some yardage to it. If you have a vehicle that has a manual gear-box and for some reason you are without Clutch, can it be driven?... This may be due to lack of Clutch fluid [ citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/thread/1642/brake-clutch-fluid ] or many other mechanical faults, and is born of a discussion in another thread on should it be driven anyway, that thread is this one... citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/thread/1625/dangerous-leaking-clutch-cyilinder?page=1&scrollTo=75033On to the actual question. It has become obvious that many of us more experienced drivers have at some point had to drive a vehicle with a failing or failed clutch.... Myth already broken then?... Nope. The more experienced of us have driven vehicles that have history of not having much of a clutch in the first place, HEAVY vehicles, big trucks. This is aimed at the normal average car driver.... The "Myth" is that if it has no clutch to change gears, it wont even move from where its parked. Can the team demonstrate a safe way to get a vehicle moved, even if its just to a repair shop.... If the vehicle starts to move, can they then change gear by pumping the clutch, or "Double-de-clutch" method of matching revs to road speed to change gears as you have on the clutch to release one gear and heave on it again to engage the next as you do with larger engine vehicles (Semi-trucks) that have little or n synchro-mesh between gears. And in that, Big Semi-'s these days have much much MUCH better gearboxes, some even have semi-automatic, some full automatic. Would having experience of bigger vehicles help here?. There is also a myth (One I have never tried myself) that if you are without clutch, putting the vehicle in 1st gear and cranking the starter may start the vehicle. Obviously you need a smaller lighter vehicle (possibly pointing down hill?..) and a good starter motor to do that?... |
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Post by the light works on Oct 4, 2015 14:56:04 GMT
A Myth has been presented that may have some yardage to it. If you have a vehicle that has a manual gear-box and for some reason you are without Clutch, can it be driven?... This may be due to lack of Clutch fluid [ citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/thread/1642/brake-clutch-fluid ] or many other mechanical faults, and is born of a discussion in another thread on should it be driven anyway, that thread is this one... citadelofmyths.freeforums.net/thread/1625/dangerous-leaking-clutch-cyilinder?page=1&scrollTo=75033On to the actual question. It has become obvious that many of us more experienced drivers have at some point had to drive a vehicle with a failing or failed clutch.... Myth already broken then?... Nope. The more experienced of us have driven vehicles that have history of not having much of a clutch in the first place, HEAVY vehicles, big trucks. This is aimed at the normal average car driver.... The "Myth" is that if it has no clutch to change gears, it wont even move from where its parked. Can the team demonstrate a safe way to get a vehicle moved, even if its just to a repair shop.... If the vehicle starts to move, can they then change gear by pumping the clutch, or "Double-de-clutch" method of matching revs to road speed to change gears as you have on the clutch to release one gear and heave on it again to engage the next as you do with larger engine vehicles (Semi-trucks) that have little or n synchro-mesh between gears. And in that, Big Semi-'s these days have much much MUCH better gearboxes, some even have semi-automatic, some full automatic. Would having experience of bigger vehicles help here?. There is also a myth (One I have never tried myself) that if you are without clutch, putting the vehicle in 1st gear and cranking the starter may start the vehicle. Obviously you need a smaller lighter vehicle (possibly pointing down hill?..) and a good starter motor to do that?... when I launch my sailboat with my Jeep, I can't trust my park brake, so I will stop it in gear and shut down the engine to hold it on the ramp. half the time when the boat is off, and I'm ready to pull out, I just hit the key and let it start in gear. - however, many modern cars have an interlock specifically to prevent people from accidentally doing that. I have also heard of people in wrecking yards using the starter to "walk" a car with a bad motor from point to point. the catch, of course, is that the starter is not a continuous duty motor, and so it will quickly overheat if it is used as the prime mover. my dad's experience was with a throwout mechanism in the clutch assembly that bent - preventing the clutch from fully disengaging. in his case, it was a story of the only way to change directions is to shut the engine off, shift gears, then start the engine with the brake off, to allow the pickup to roll. stopping, he could press the clutch, and then heel-and-toe the brake and gas to keep it from stalling the engine. my own experience, I have had two clutch linkages have sudden failure - both were essentially nonrecoverable. there is just no reaction time fast enough to compensate for having the clutch go from disengaged to engages at the pace of a heavy spring. in one case I was parked up when it failed, so I was able to simply repair the linkage in situ. the other was at a traffic light, and I had to do start it with the clutch engaged to get it to a parking area where I could stop and make emergency repairs. I have also, just to see if it could be done, shifted into stump puller low from a standing stop with no clutch in an old truck. it is quite an ugly launch, but it is physically possible. so, in my estimation: driving with a compromised clutch linkage: confirmed. driving with no clutch linkage: plausible. someone with no experience in clutchlessness driving with no clutch: highly doubtful. my recommendation for testing: get an old vehicle with a mechanical clutch linkage, and they should be able to modify the linkage to compromise clutch performance to a greater or lesser degree. test maneuvers: from a standing start, accelerate to 50 MPH, decelerate to a u-turn, then accelerate back and decelerate to a stop. back into a parking space. I anticipate the parking to be the most difficult part of the test. |
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Post by srmarti on Oct 28, 2015 3:28:22 GMT
It doesn't seem much of a myth. It's more like in this age of manual transmissions being a rarity, many just don't know. I've done it when I've broken a clutch cable. It's challenging to a degree, but doable. I've been able to start in first gear and work the throttle and shift lever to upshift and downshift. I'm sure to a degree it depends on the vehicle and driver skill.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 28, 2015 9:03:55 GMT
I am just learning about a Clutch Brake.
... It isnt "Common" on european vehicles?....
We have Synchromesh systems we use over here, on the lower gears at least.
Reason I need to know?...
I may have to drive a BIG truck from the states.... its being moved, its part of a display thing, and I have been asked if I can be put on the call list for moving it.
If anyone can supply any usable experiences, I would appreciate them?...
I know what they are, to brake the transmission to engage lower gears (Preferably when not moving) and they are "Found" at the bottom of the clutch pedal travel, but other than for moving off, should I ever use it?..
I am presuming the answer is "No".
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 29, 2015 9:38:48 GMT
Seriously folks, if ANYONE has anything on using a Clutch Brake, it would be helpful?...
I have done internet search, and aint getting much, other than the usual how-to guide and video's...
How common is this?..
Is this "Its all pre-70's vehicles" that my last result turned up sort of true?.. has it gone out of fashion?..
And to answer the obvious question, I didnt start doing HEAVY haulage until late 80's... thats when I upgraded my Solid (class 2 or "C") licence to Articulated, and solids dont have multi-use gear splitter boxes much.
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Post by the light works on Nov 2, 2015 15:39:18 GMT
Seriously folks, if ANYONE has anything on using a Clutch Brake, it would be helpful?... I have done internet search, and aint getting much, other than the usual how-to guide and video's... How common is this?.. Is this "Its all pre-70's vehicles" that my last result turned up sort of true?.. has it gone out of fashion?.. And to answer the obvious question, I didnt start doing HEAVY haulage until late 80's... thats when I upgraded my Solid (class 2 or "C") licence to Articulated, and solids dont have multi-use gear splitter boxes much. just found the thread. I have absolutely NO experience with such a thing as a clutch brake. unfortunately, I will probably not be seeing my father in time to ask him about them, either. I looked it up on the interwebz, and according to the people who actually gave answers it appears to be to bring the idler gears to a stop when shifting from neutral to a driving gear. it is not to be used while in motion. www.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_clutch_brake_on_manual_heavy_duty_truck_transmissions |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 3, 2015 7:45:47 GMT
Thanks TLW, I have seen that thread before, but it looks like its a "Thing" that was around before I drove heavy haulage, and had gone out of fashion quite a while ago.
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Post by the light works on Nov 3, 2015 15:15:17 GMT
Thanks TLW, I have seen that thread before, but it looks like its a "Thing" that was around before I drove heavy haulage, and had gone out of fashion quite a while ago. yeah, I'm guessing improved gearboxes made it unnecessary. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 4, 2015 7:39:05 GMT
Ask your Dad anyway, if you get to see him, "Just for interest".
The owner of that truck decided that he wont be moving it "Just yet", and may have it put on a low-loader instead of putting miles on the clock.
I dunno if I will ever get to drive it just yet, but thats how this goes sometimes...
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Post by the light works on Nov 4, 2015 15:03:20 GMT
Ask your Dad anyway, if you get to see him, "Just for interest". The owner of that truck decided that he wont be moving it "Just yet", and may have it put on a low-loader instead of putting miles on the clock. I dunno if I will ever get to drive it just yet, but thats how this goes sometimes... actually, for all I know my old tender had a clutch brake. I would be inclined to guess that since my grandfather did custom haul, they probably had at least a couple rigs with clutch brakes. |
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